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The ruling party in Poland tries to take American owned TV news station off the air


OP mafketis 29 | 9,507
14 Jul 2021 #91
To be clear here, my entire objection to this proposed law (in legal terms) is the retroactive element. If they tried to use retroactive legislation to take TV Trwam off the air I'd be just as opposed. If they wanted to prevent non-European (however defined) interests from having a media presence in the future, fine but don't use such a law to attack an existing broadcaster.

There are separate political issues (like PiS's transparent attempts to replicate PRL style media or what a crappy ally this makes Poland seem like to the US) but the legal issue comes first - retroactive legislation is wrong.
pawian 178 | 15,897
14 Jul 2021 #92
but don't use such a law to attack an existing broadcaster.

That`s what we were trying to explain to other members here - Kania, Novi, Iron, Dirk among others - but they seem to be deaf to the voice of reason.
Novichok 1 | 2,927
14 Jul 2021 #93
There is no such thing as right and wrong. It's who has the bigger stick and what he can get away with. See: life. Also: Crimea.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,666
14 Jul 2021 #94
but they seem to be deaf to the voice of reason.

Why? Because I want the most important institutions like media, finance and government of my motherland to be in the hands of Poles and not jews from New York llike David Zaslav that more often than not have an anti-Polish agenda?
OP mafketis 29 | 9,507
14 Jul 2021 #95
Because I want

Then figure out how to achieve that ethically rather than third world sh|thole tactics like retroactive legislation.
Novichok 1 | 2,927
14 Jul 2021 #96
We do it here in "America", in the "sh*ithole" you know very well.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,666
14 Jul 2021 #97
Then figure out how to achieve that ethically rather than third world sh|thole tactics like retroactive legislation.

The people in PiS did - they initially sought to buy out stakes in the foreign media companies. In some cases it worked, in others it didn't. So they used the law. I find that to be ethical, which is totally subjective and relative anyway. They could've just as easily sent in a bunch of investigators over tax payments or fraud or whatever and kept digging till they uncover some kind of impropriety which they eventually would, or make one up. Or just straight up nationalized it. So yes, relatively, they are and have been taking the more ethical route.

People that have power, wealth, etc. 99% of the time didn't get there by being "ethical." They may pretend to be and spout off some slogans or put up a plaque with some donation amount, but at the end of the day it's all b.s. And actually, it's the ones who claim to be so pure and holy, so ethical, that are oftentimes the biggest crooks.
pawian 178 | 15,897
14 Jul 2021 #98
to be in the hands of Poles

Not Poles but PiS rightards - that`s a huge difference.
.
It is natural that I disagree with you. So do 66% polled Poles who believe TVN must stay whole and independent.
Novichok 1 | 2,927
14 Jul 2021 #99
it's the ones who claim to be so pure and holy, so ethical, that are oftentimes the biggest crooks.

Good to see you back. Dealing with children is often so exhausting...Like this:

Not Poles but PiS rightards.

So now Poland had three subgroups: Poles, Jews, and PiS rightards.
That is sooo stupid that it is impossible to debate. A new and novel way by pawian...
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,666
14 Jul 2021 #100
66% polled Poles who believe TVN must stay whole and independent.

Oh so now suddenly you agree with what the majority wants... funny how when polls show that 74% of Poles who don't want third worlders in Poland or the 66% who are against gay marraige you're against them...

And who conducted this supposed poll that 2/3 of Poles want TVN to remain as is? IPSOS, CBOS, or TVN or some affiliated/friendly group?

How about this - fine let's assume that 2/3 of Poles want TVN to remain in the hand of New York jews... if we're following the wishes of Polish people on all accounts that means no third world migration, no gay marraige, no abortion, etc.
pawian 178 | 15,897
14 Jul 2021 #101
Oh so now suddenly you agree with what the majority wants..

I did it only for you coz I know you love majority statistics. HA!

gay marraige

Please, don`t go off topic. :):)

And who conducted this supposed poll

hahaha it is funny how you are trying to question the validity of the poll whose results you can`t swallow.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,666
14 Jul 2021 #102
Again, that's why I'm asking WHO conducted this poll - is it someone neutral like IPSOS, CBOS, etc. or TVN, Wyborcza, etc.?

You fancy yourself an educated person so you ought to know that data and statistics can be easily manipulated to show certain results. It's called statistical bias. If it's someone like TVN conducting their own polls then there may be a bias

I did it only for you coz I know you love majority statistics. HA!

Apparently you do too, but only when they're in your favor and when you agree with something. But when neutral polls show that Poles don't want gay marraige, third worlders, abortion, etc. now you're against the majority... Only when it suits you...
Novichok 1 | 2,927
14 Jul 2021 #103
Only when it suits you...

That's what slippery disingenuous snakes do.
pawian 178 | 15,897
14 Jul 2021 #104
hat data and statistics can be easily manipulated to show certain results.

That`s what I always told you when your main argument was that "most Poles think this or that." :):) You see - now you are discrediting all your previous defenses.

gay marraige,

I already told you. :):)

That's what slippery disingenuous snakes do.

It is funny how you comment on me to others coz you are afraid to speak directly to me. :):):)
OP mafketis 29 | 9,507
14 Jul 2021 #105
what slippery disingenuous snakes do.

No, slippery, disingenuous snakes simply don't believe in questions of right and wrong, it's all brute force to them.... see: Krym
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,666
14 Jul 2021 #106
"most Poles think this or that." :):) You see - now you are discrediting all your previous defenses.

Which is why I quoted ISPSOS and CBOS, both are neutral and both show that the majority of Poles don't want third worlders, gay marraige and abortion. And if we're following your line then it also equally discredits your statement that 66% of Poles want TVN independent, especially when you can't cite the source making it highly suspect that it may be a biased source i.e. wyborcza, TVN's own poll, etc.
pawian 178 | 15,897
14 Jul 2021 #107
is it someone neutral like IPSOS, CBOS, etc. or TVN, Wyborcza, etc.?

Funny you ascribed neutrality to CBOS coz they are on the leash of their PiS masters.

I was talking about a Kantar poll.
Novichok 1 | 2,927
14 Jul 2021 #108
Funny how it works. I could be a well-informed Polish voter right this minute. All I need to know what party pawian hates and Dirk likes.
OP mafketis 29 | 9,507
15 Jul 2021 #109
And the knowledge that pawian has a direct stake in the country since he lives there while Dirk is a larper with no plans on actually living in Poland...
gumishu 11 | 5,692
15 Jul 2021 #110
pawian has a direct stake

I also have a direct stake in this country - and I don't share pawian's opinion - go figure
Cargo pants 2 | 951
15 Jul 2021 #111
with no plans on actually living in Poland...

Yes he does in future.
OP mafketis 29 | 9,507
15 Jul 2021 #112
he does in future

I'll believe that when it happens (also the case for spike).... until then, they're larpers.

and I don't share pawian's opinion

It's almost as if fairly reasonable adults often disagree..... who'd a' thunk it?

Please stick to the topic of this thread, everyone
PolAmKrakow 1 | 804
15 Jul 2021 #113
Its clear that PiS is on a collision course with just about everyone. The EU and USA are simply not going to continue to tolerate stupidity, and Poland would be absolutely F'd if they lost US support and EU money.

There is only so much Biden, or any US President will put up with. Imagine Trump response if they tried to shut down a US owned business? No way he would have sat and did nothing. Biden will not either. The free market in Poland is at risk with all the consolidating PiS has done already.

I read some recent Polexit articles, and the leadership of this country is disgraceful. Well intentioned, but disgracefully moronic. I understand the positions of this government quite well, and the reasons behind the positions. They simply do not know how to go about business without pissing in peoples cheerios. They are political newborns on the world stage flexing muscle they have not developed on their own.
amiga500 2 | 568
15 Jul 2021 #114
They simply do not know how to go about business without pissing in peoples cheerios. They are political newborns on the world

And yet Germany and French and Spanish Constitutional courts have all told the ECJ to get lost without much outcry, this is only reserved to Polands clueless oppositon yelling about a mythical polexit. Government are hardly newborns but are trying to muscle into 'Europe A'. That is bound to elicit resistance amongst Polands rivals and wannabee masters who see Poland as an economic threat. As for Biden he will forget where and what poland is by naptime.
Novichok 1 | 2,927
15 Jul 2021 #115
It's clear that PiS is on a collision course with just about everyone.

I don't know anything about that "American" station, who actually owns it, and what their mission really is. But I do know how damaging CNN and MSNBC are here. Add to this Soros-grade globalist Jews and gullible ignorant masses and you have a disaster in the making. The US is unrecognizable just from 2000 as a reference.
amiga500 2 | 568
15 Jul 2021 #116
I understand the positions of this government quite well, and the reasons behind the positions. They simply do not know h

What you are trying to say is you agree with PiS positions but do not like they way there are achieving their objectives. I disagree, if you are going to get into the arena you have to be prepared to have bruised knuckles and a bruised face. this isin't an english tea party. Anyway the same could have been said of your independence leaders..
pawian 178 | 15,897
15 Jul 2021 #117
you have to be prepared to have bruised knuckles and a bruised face.

Yes, let corrupt PIS rightards have bruises, even fractures, I don`t mind. But why does Poland have to suffer too??

and I don't share pawian's opinion -

That`s good. If everybody shared my opinion, life would be very boring. :):)

Poland would be absolutely F'd if they lost US support and EU money.

As I said earlier, the history repeats itself - guys like today`s PIS greatly contributed to the partitions of Poland in 18th century. PIS are doing their best to sell independent Poland and put it under the Kremlin control again. .
PolAmKrakow 1 | 804
15 Jul 2021 #118
@amiga500
I have said many times I am in favor of a lot of their social positions such as immigration and all the pride stuff. I think being too heavy handed is what alienates them from the more educated and they are relying on older, and less educated demographic to support those positions while those demographics are shrinking.

Poland does not have the muscle for a fight. A quick little cut off from EU money and Poland paying back the EU? Are you kidding? The zl would be worth nothing. Picking fights you can not win is never a good idea. Negotiating is the best idea for Poland, but PiS thinks they are hardened fighters when the world laughs at them. Really its like Jimmy Carter saying he would go kick some @$$. It just wont happen.

TVN is pretty balanced. A little left, but not the far right absolute BS propaganda machine that is TVP.

Poland can not muscle anyone. Sorry, they are simply not strong enough. Without the EU money, and all the US support by way of business and military, and Poland is barely above Ukraine without it.

Anyone see CPI index today? Higher than even PiS anticipated. Inflation escalating daily. PLN devalued 8% over the last month. Tough talk was cute from my little brother too until I had to beat his @$$ to set him straight as a teenager.
Strzelec35 31 | 879
15 Jul 2021 #119
"Poland can not muscle anyone. Sorry, they are simply not strong enough. Without the EU money, and all the US support by way of business and military, and Poland is barely above Ukraine without it."

They arent above ukraine without it. In fact in the 90s or when Pland and Ukraine were equal no eu or nato Ukraine had a higher gdp. Sure it was only like three yrs but still:

commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ukraine_vs_Poland_GDP_per_capita_ppp_1990-2017.png
pawian 178 | 15,897
15 Jul 2021 #120
PiS thinks they are hardened fighters

While they are like kids in a sandbox. Too silly to grasp the reality around them.


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