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PiS wants symmetry for minorites living in Poland


polonius 54 | 420
10 Dec 2012 #1
FYI over the weekend PiS leader Kaczyński said there must be symmetry in the treatment of nationol minorities between Poland and her neighbours. Specifically he indicated that Poland was bending over backwards to accommodate the German minority who automatically get Sejm slots and have bilingual signs (names of localities in Polish and German) where they live. The same holds true for Lithuanian Poles in the Puńsk-Sejny areas. Meanwhile, Poles face ethnic discrimination in Lithuania. In Germany they haev no representation in the Bundestag and divorced Polish parents are banned from speaking Polish to their kids.
berni23 7 | 379
10 Dec 2012 #2
divorced Polish parents are banned from speaking Polish to their kids

LOL Who said that?
smurf 39 | 1,981
10 Dec 2012 #3
Kaczyński

= xenophobic troll monster.
A man who plays upon the fears and racist tendencies of his target market.
However, that target market is shrinking by the day and luckily the masses do not fall for his nonsense and he hasn't won an election in....what....8 attempts?
milky 13 | 1,657
10 Dec 2012 #4
polonius:
divorced Polish parents are banned from speaking Polish to their kids

LOL Who said that?

hhah, I was told by a few Polish people, that Polish people were banned from speaking Polish at work in Ireland. I met an Irish guy a while back who was a truck driver , he told me he was stopped at the border coming into Poland and fined by the police. He said he had done nothing wrong,so I asked him why he had been given a fine,,, and he replied "the police man said, you are Irish and you people treated our people badly when they worked in Ireland so this fine I'm giving you is a punishment" I am convinced 100% that the Irish guy who told me this with absolute sincerity in his eyes, was talking complete sh1t and his only interest was manifesting an us versus them scenario by any means necessary. His general attitude was plagues with racist slurs so I have no doubt that he was basically a fear spreading liar(like PIS), but!! I'm sure he went back to Ireland and spread his lie to every daft Irish person he met.
jon357 67 | 17,053
10 Dec 2012 #5
divorced Polish parents are banned from speaking Polish to their kids.

By whom?

banned from speaking Polish at work in Ireland.

Fair enough - if English or Irish is the official language of the workplace.
So let him offer the same benefits, fast track to citizenship and protection against discrimination that the recent Polish influx to the UK has received.
Ant63 13 | 410
10 Dec 2012 #6
divorced Polish parents are banned from speaking Polish to their kids.

Are you the Polish Daily Mail Polonius? Maybe you should read the facts of that case from the courts and not what the parents said.
OP polonius 54 | 420
10 Dec 2012 #7
I was only reporting what Kaczyński said, not confirming or denying its veracity.
But the fact remains that there are no Polish-language road signs in Germany. Some Sorbian ones only. And no Polish representation in the Bundestag. There are far fewer than 2 million Germans in Poland, but they are guaranteed two seats in parliament.
smurf 39 | 1,981
10 Dec 2012 #8
That's coz Poland was given a whole load of German land after WWII that wasn't there's to begin with. Breslau/Wrocław for example.

If the people in these areas speak German then why not have sign posts in German?

Germans don't really need to pay any attention to the Polish minority in Germany.
You said there are 2m Germans in Poland, there are only 1.6m Poles in Germany, making up only 2% of the pop.
Hardly an important voice to listen to when they live in a country of 81m
Turks and Middle Easterns make up the vast majority of immigrants in Germany.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany#Ethnic_groups
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
10 Dec 2012 #9
Germans don't really need to pay any attention to the Polish minority in Germany.

Thanks for making it clear for everyone :)
sobieski 107 | 2,128
10 Dec 2012 #10
I was only reporting what Kaczyński said, not confirming or denying its veracity.
But the fact remains that there are no Polish-language road signs in Germany. Some Sorbian ones only. And no Polish representation in the Bundestag. There are far fewer than 2 million Germans in Poland, but they are guaranteed two seats in parliament.

That is because the Poles in Germany are not ethnic, as opposed to the German-speaking minority in Poland.
If we follow Polonius' and JK's lead, the Poles should be represented in half the parliaments in the EU :)
In Belgium the German-speaking minority has also seats in parliament (and their own government) and the Belgian constitution is also written in German, but that is because they are ethnic Germans = they always have lived on their German-speaking land.

And no doubt Polonius will us now provide a link to divorced parents issue :)
Ant63 13 | 410
10 Dec 2012 #11
I will.

budapesttimes.hu/2010/01/23/german-court-allows-language-ban

The important thing to glean from this report is "Supervised Visits" so he cannot be trusted on his own with the children.
berni23 7 | 379
10 Dec 2012 #12
This is a single case, while polonius makes it sound like common day practice and we should fear the evil German oppressors.
Which of course plays right into his twisted weelhouse.
Ironside 50 | 11,486
10 Dec 2012 #13
Specifically he indicated that Poland was bending over backwards to accommodate the German minority who automatically get Sejm slots and have bilingual signs (names of localities in Polish and German) where they live.

true!

The same holds true for Lithuanian Poles in the Puńsk-Sejny areas. Meanwhile, Poles face ethnic discrimination in Lithuania

Also true!

. In Germany they haev no representation in the Bundestag and divorced Polish parents are banned from speaking Polish to their kids.

True as well!
berni23 7 | 379
10 Dec 2012 #14
true!

Disproven.

True as well!

Proven to be a single accident.

It must be hard living in denial.
Ironside 50 | 11,486
10 Dec 2012 #15
Disproven.

How come?

Proven to be a single accident.

dyskryminacja-berlin.de

I don't think that the International Society Against Children Discrimination in Germany as well as Polish Parents Society have been created because of one incident!

It must be hard living in denial.

pot calling kettle black ass?
berni23 7 | 379
10 Dec 2012 #16
How come?

Just read the posts above yours.

I don't think that the International Society Against Children Discrimination in Germany as well as Polish Parents Society have been created because of one incident!

It was for sure not founded because Poles are forbidden to speak Polish with their children.
That was laughable, even you should have picked up on that.
Ironside 50 | 11,486
10 Dec 2012 #17
It was for sure not founded because Poles are forbidden to speak Polish with their children.

You said it was one incident and you have been proven wrong!

That was laughable, even you should have picked up on that.

Maybe as a really proud Pole you find discrimination committed against your countrymen laughable but it doesn't change the fact that German institution is lacking and treating foreigners in discriminatory manner!

Just read the posts above yours.

you disagree with me and you can tell me why!
berni23 7 | 379
10 Dec 2012 #18
You said it was one incident and you have been proven wrong!

How was i proven wrong?
Where are all those children?
I seen one article about one Schwab chick.

Maybe as a really proud Pole you find discrimination committed against your countrymen laughable but it doesn't change the fact that German institution is lacking and treating foreigners in discriminatory manner!

It just isnt happening, at least not on the scale as in Poland.
See Germany has a much longer history of multiculturalism and has learned to deal with it.

you disagree with me and you can tell me why!

I dont have to, its been established in this thread.
Your "true", "more true", "most true" doesnt make it true.
Ironside 50 | 11,486
10 Dec 2012 #19
How was i proven wrong?

I have provided link you can work form there!

It just isnt happening

denial :)

See Germany has a much longer history of multiculturalism and has learned to deal with it.

evidently not! Do you think that said Society exist just for a pure joy of it?

at least not on the scale as in Poland.

don't changed the subject!

I dont have to, its been established in this thread.

established like in calling somebody derogatory names and belittling his voters and supporters? I doesn't work that way!

Your "true", "more true", "most true" doesnt make it true.

It was you who has been proved wrong with links and facts! All you are typing here is just your assertion of superiority and your denial !phew!

your "it isn't happening" is exactly not gold current brenie!
berni23 7 | 379
10 Dec 2012 #20
Dude, i have been living in Germany for a long time, one would think that i have a slightly better understanding of how things work here...

I have provided link you can work form there!

OMFG. Yeah, you provided ONE link and claimed its happening on a large scale.

don't changed the subject!

Why, uncomfortable?

It was you who has been proved wrong with links and facts!

OK, where are those linkS and supposed FACTS?
Ironside 50 | 11,486
10 Dec 2012 #21
Dude, i have been living in Germany for a long time, one would think that i have a slightly better understanding of how things work here...

Do you now? Have you ever had to deal with said institution? As a parent?

OMFG. Yeah, you provided ONE link and claimed its happening on a large scale.

I provided with link to International Society against Discrimination of Children in Germany of which society Polish Parents in Germany is part!
existence of said societies is prove in itself than the institution in Germany is not working as well and smooth as you claim! I;m sure if you explore said link you will find evidence a plenty!

Why, uncomfortable?

No, off-topic!
Malopolanin 3 | 133
10 Dec 2012 #22
polishforums.com/polonia-other-europe-48/germans-still-nazis-against-poles-polish-minority-germany-46319/
TheOther 5 | 3,682
10 Dec 2012 #23
It was for sure not founded because Poles are forbidden to speak Polish with their children.

That case has been discussed on PF before. The whole point is that Wojciech Pomorski insists to speak Polish while Hamburg argues that - given the large number of different nationalities in the city - it is impossible to provide a Polish speaking case worker just for him to supervise the visit with his children. The claim of "discrimination against Poles" is the typical BS that one can expect from the Polish mass media, especially since the guy speaks fluent German and could easily meet with his kids.

EDIT:
Thanks for providing the link, Malopolanin
Ironside 50 | 11,486
10 Dec 2012 #24
. The whole point is that Wojciech Pomorski insists to speak Polish while Hamburg argues that

It Is evidently not only about him!

while Hamburg argues that - given the large number of different nationalities in the city - it is impossible to provide a Polish speaking case worker just for him to supervise the visit with his children.

Simple solution - record their conversation and then find translator in their own time - if there is any inappropriate stuff in what a parent say then and only then they shoudl be able make him speak in German to the kid!

It is mind bugling bureaucratic and discriminatory BS - some pen pusher dictate parent in what language he/she can speak to his/her own child! WTF? Predicable you see nothing wrong with that
TheOther 5 | 3,682
10 Dec 2012 #25
It is mind bugling bureaucratic and discriminatory BS - some pen pusher dictate parent in what language he/she can speak to his/her own child

There was a reason why the guy was only allowed to see his kids under supervision, if I recall correctly. And why would Hamburg be obliged to provide a translator or translation service for every freakin' nationality in the city? German is the official language of the country, the kids are German AFAIK, and Pomorski speaks the language fluently. So where's the problem?

I've yet to see a country in which you will be given a translator if you are fluent in the local language.
Marysienka 1 | 195
10 Dec 2012 #26
The case is interesting, but of one person only.
We Poles have this fear
"Nie będzie Niemiec pluł nam w twarz
ni dzieci nam Germanił"

German won't spit in our face and won't Germanise our children - this could have been our anthem. It did happen in the past and now PIS has something to play with.
TheOther 5 | 3,682
10 Dec 2012 #27
We Poles have this fear ... German won't spit in our face and won't Germanise our children

In their minds, some Poles seem to have never left the 1930's and 1940's...
Ironside 50 | 11,486
11 Dec 2012 #28
And why would Hamburg be obliged to provide a translator or translation service for every freakin' nationality in the city

He and his children didn't need services of translator! It was for benefit of overpaid undereducated pen pusher ...

It did happen in the past and now PIS has something to play with.

they just try to move people with only one tool they have = "patriotic" cattle prod ! If people behave like a cattle ....

In their minds, some Poles seem to have never left the 1930's and 1940's...

The fact that parent cannot communique with his child in his own language is just a detail not worthy of attention according to you! Also you seems to suffer with gold fish syndrome and repeat the same cliché.
TheOther 5 | 3,682
11 Dec 2012 #29
It was for benefit of overpaid undereducated pen pusher

The courts have decided that the guy has to be supervised by a case worker when visiting his children. How is the case worker supposed to understand what the father is telling his kids when he doesn't speak Polish? So simply because the father has a mighty chip on his shoulder and refuses to speak German (even though he is fluent in that language), the German taxpayer has to hire and pay for a translator so that the case worker can do his job the way that is required by the courts. Give me a break, really. If the guy couldn't speak a word of German, I would understand, but since he is fluent I couldn't care less about him. Pole or not - he's just a d*ckhead who is pulling the racism/ Nazi card because he can't get his way.

is just a detail not worthy of attention according to you

I was referring to Marysienka's "We Poles have this fear" statement, which is something irrational from a long gone past. It's 2012 - nobody tries to "germanize" your kids or spit in your face anymore.
rybnik 18 | 1,461
11 Dec 2012 #30
Polonius
I respect your views but your boy's words and stance vis' a vis Poland's German minority is, to put it plainly, vulgar and inconsistent in a democracy.

Shame on him and on all who agree with him.
The Germans have lived on that soil for a long time (unlike the newly-transplanted Poles on German soil)
and their status in Poland is inherently different than the Polish immigrants'.................
Has Kaczynski brought up a similar issue with the Lithuanians?
Here the comparison is more apt.


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