The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 10

PiS` magic tricks - the first budget without deficit in Poland


pawian 161 | 9,971
28 Aug 2019 #1
PiS is boasting of preparing the first budget since 1989 which won`t be burdened with the deficit.

Read more:
tvn24.pl/tvn24-news-in-english,157,m/poland-s-government-adopts-a-draft-balanced-budget-for-2020,964497.html

However, experts claim it is just an over optimistic show-off, which is mostly based on PiS` robbing people`s private retirement accounts in OFE system and moving them into state Social Security Company.

innpoland.pl/151459,rzad-chce-przehulac-nasze-emerytury-na-piatke-kaczynskiego-zegnajcie-ofe
Torq 26 | 2,371
28 Aug 2019 #2
the first budget since 1989 which won`t be burdened with the deficit

It is rather difficult to imagine, considering the fact that most industry and trade in Poland is in foreign hands, which means that profits are transferred out of Poland, and hard work of Poles serves to make other nations rich. I mean, where would the money necessary to balance the budget's expenses come from? When there is so little industry left in Polish hands, and big-scale trade is almost exclusively foreign-owned, the only viable source of income for the government is either loans or higher taxes (and I can't decide which is worse).

But at least they are trying. Their predecessors, who dream of returning to power, are the same people who deprived Poland of her industry through criminal "privatisation" process, and would now like to complete it by getting rid of the few income generating companies we still have (Orlen, KGHM).

PiS is far from being perfect, and some of their actions are outright harmful, but PO returning to power would be a complete and utter disaster. Luckily, Grzegorz Schetyna is still in charge of Platforma which pretty much guarantees long reign of PiS. :)
mafketis 21 | 7,448
28 Aug 2019 #3
most industry and trade in Poland is in foreign hands

isn't this the usual case in the modern world? we are in an age of fluid capital where companies have no ties to the countries they are headquartered in.

the same people who deprived Poland of her industry through criminal "privatisation" process

there were mistakes made, but most of Polish industry in the early 90s was incapable of supporting itself and hemorrhaging money (that the state didn't have).

how would/could you have done anything differently?
Torq 26 | 2,371
28 Aug 2019 #4
isn't this the usual case in the modern world?

Perhaps. Which doesn't mean it's a good thing.

In 1989 Poland sat at a "Monopoly" board and started playing. The problem was - other players had money, and we didn't. Those who don't know what happens in such cases are advised to play a game of "Monopoly" when other players have 99% of money available in the game. :) Yes, I realise that my comparison entails certain measure of oversimplification, but that's basically what happened.

most of Polish industry in the early 90s was incapable of supporting itself

That is simply not true. Yes, there were companies in dire need of restructurisation, but most of them could have easily made it in the free market reality. Especially the light industry. In Great Britain there are still small/medium-size companies using industrial machines from 80s/90s and making profit. The problem with Poland is that our economy was in hands of either hard headed doctrinaires or simply corrupt people. A typical pattern of Polish privatisation was to take a company which brought 160 million USD yearly profit, and sell it to a foreign investor for 80 million. This way the investor got back his invested money in 6 months, and the land, buildings, machines etc. remained in his hands. There were also outright criminal cases, like selling car industry works in Bielsko-Biała for 1PLN (so-called "symboliczna złotówka"), to "save them from bankruptcy". Telekomunikacja Polska - a golden goose by any standards - was sold to France Telecom, which is a state-owned company (!!!), so now billions of pure profit (around 12-15 billion PLN every year) are going straight into the French government pockets. Jesus... I could go on like that...

In free Poland, people responsible for that should be put before The State Tribunal.

how would/could you have done anything differently?

First of all, I wouldn't sell ANY company that made even the smallest profit - they were numerous, and they weren't a burden for the newly independent state. Unfortunately, the doctrinaires in power back then viewed anything state-owned as evil, and were "privatising" (which simply meant selling into foreign hands) almost everything. When I think that Lewandowski wanted to sell KGHM for 400 million USD in 1992 (a company that brought over 42 BILLION profit since then), I am happy that there was someone with a bit of reason remaining in him and stopped it. Unfortunately, many other companies fell victim to the criminal privatisation, turning Poland from a highly industrialised state into a pretty much neo-colonial bantustan in economic terms.

Also, I would do everything not to give trade into foreign hands. As opposed to industry, creating trade companies and retail chains doesn't require exorbitant expenses. Giving away the overwhelming majority of retail to foreign based companies was nothing short of stupidity. We are paying a very high price for it now.

When I think of it all, I realise that it would require a 1000-page-long book, not a forum post, to even start describing the problem...
Ziemowit 12 | 3,605
28 Aug 2019 #5
most of Polish industry in the early 90s was incapable of supporting itself and hemorrhaging money

That is true. Polish industry in the early 90s was more or less a joke. There were, however, a few examples of the opposite, but these only confirm the rule.

Critics claim now that those "jewels" were sold for nothing, but they simply look upon the economic condition in which the enterprises are now and completely ignoring the fact that this condition has been achieved thanks to foreign investments into these enterprises.

On that new economic base, some new Polish enterprises have been formed ever since and they have been very successful and have been 100% Polish-owned from the very beginning.

However, there have always been major companies that have remained Polish since the beginning of the economic transformation. One of those is the biggest Polish bank PKO, another is KGHM (and yes, the latter one was one of those Polish "crown jewels" which was on the verge of selling it to a foreign company in the 90s, but luckily enough, the trade unions had managed to block the deal, otherwise the KGHM would have really been sold almost for nothing).
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
28 Aug 2019 #6
but most of Polish industry in the early 90s was incapable of supporting itself

Yes, we talked about it. The post communist industry was completely obsolete, simply worthless.

but most of them could have easily made it in the free market reality

Of course not. You must be quite young coz you repeat false opinions which the Net is abundant with, spread mostly by youngsters who know nothing about the times. Good for you! :):)

Typical? You mentioned TPSA. Anything else?

Let me remind you that the same people you are talking about include today`s PiS politicians, firstly Kaczyńsks brothers. Do you remember the Telegraf scandal?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
28 Aug 2019 #7
First of all, I wouldn't sell ANY company that made even the smallest profit - they were numerous, and they weren't a burden

There were some issues with that, though. For instance, some companies were making a profit solely because of political moves to guarantee that profit. For instance, you would see municipal companies forced into buying goods from other municipal companies through rigged public procurement processes. I had a chat with one Polish businessman about this, and he said that it was extraordinarily common in the 1990's for the local mayor to ask him to buy (unneeded) stuff from the local municipal factory in exchange for political favours.

I seem to recall that in the case of TPSA, one reason for the privatisation was the struggle to get them to actually open up and liberalise the market. I've got a Polish book somewhere that talks about this - for instance, they made it very difficult for operators to actually use their infrastructure for local calls. TPSA also benefitted hugely from their monopoly over long distance/international calls. TPSA were also hopeless with infrastructure themselves - I remember reading that the waiting list at the end of the 1990's for a phone was around 2m people, with demand being 3-4x that amount.

There were other scams as well, such as companies being profitable on paper and yet actually cooking the books on a large scale - Szczecin Shipyard being the posterchild in this case.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
19 Oct 2019 #8
Mr Gowin, one of PiS` allies, said his group won`t support the planned increase of obligatory payments to Polish Social Security. If he keeps his word, the budget will lose about 5 billion PLN.

The balanced budget by PiS is slowly becoming a song of the past from before elections...... :):)

wyborcza.pl/7,155287,25319329,pis-wali-sie-budzet-jaroslaw-gowin-zapowiedzial-ze-nie-zaglosuje.html
mafketis 21 | 7,448
29 Oct 2019 #9
And.... the budget without a deficit is dead.... dead, dead, dead.

And... it appears that it was never a real possibility due to PiS desperate juggling things around while giving out kiełbasa wyborcza...

Cue a chorus of PiS supporters to chime in with 'but PO is worse!' or to maintain a dignified silence as they hope reality can be kept at bay for a while longer

businessinsider.com.pl/finanse/makroekonomia/pis-dystansuje-sie-wobec-trzech-obietnic-wyborczych-emerytury-ustawy-i-budzet/kwvvezg
Crow 137 | 7,754
31 Oct 2019 #10
Warms my heart when brotherly Poland strengthen. And economy is key. PiS is wise.


Home / News / PiS` magic tricks - the first budget without deficit in Poland
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.