Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment?

But Scholz Germany also prefers Russia. Secretly you crave reviving the old business with Russia as it had been before the war.

So, my BB, Scholz or AfD is all the same to reasonable Poles and Polesses. :):):)

Okay....good to know....

No, our safety is best assured by our power. We need a powerful economy and a real elite, everything else can be worked out.
---

@pawian


Sorry, but that is a pretty idiotic take if true.

Germany under Scholz has become Ukraine's largest European supplier of aid and has also accepted more than 1m Ukrainian refugees.

An AfD government would stop all aid to Ukraine, and after the inevitable collapse of the country would make sure that Poland would be stuck dealing with the newly arriving Ukrainian refugees

As frustrating as Scholz may be, he is infinitely preferable to the AfD.

The AfD is the nightmare of decent Germans.

....what is decent about it to want to keep the borders open for murderer and rapists? And when they kill and rape then they will not even punished and thrown out but cuddled and pitied....because, of course, the bad Germans are to blame...

What in the hell is decent about that?

The borders are closed (controls contrary to Schengen) and the courts are responsible for punishing.

They aren't and they don't!

If that would be so nobody would chose the AfD....

You got to think bigger, decent people prefer to talk, negotiate, being verbal and non-physical. That way, finding other decent people abroad is much easier if they think people are not as decent as themselves domestically (experiences are done mostly domestically).

Big "decent" corporations see hostility towards "foreign" migration and laws as first warning and barrier before their own company gets targeted (to be nationalised or out competed by nationalist policies. It's another reason why international companies try to have non-nationalist parties ruling in a state they invest in.

They don't want to lose money, same with regard to Germany. Viewed by any party! Germany as society, not only as a state has invested a lot in Poland (cause it's profitable and safe...)

Any threat to that investment will be important

They have a few more brilliant ideas, such as leaving the EU, reintroducing the German mark and appointing Höckler as Chancellor of Germany.

This reminds me of a joke:

A Polish taxi driver looks at his German passenger through the rear view mirror. The German seems upset about something.

- I'm sorry, sir, is everything alright?

- Yes, can you please stop bringing up the war?

- The war? I didn't bring it up, it was you who started.

- No I did not! It was you who brought it up, and you continue to talk about it.

- Goddamit, I did not start it, it was you who invaded first!


Finally you are not discussing Greeks or Martians, and are beginning to address the issue at hand. I like this BB much more!


Pawian is not exactly a good ambassador of Poland...

Ever watch "The Germans" from that Britcom FAULTY TOWERS?
Screamingly funny.

Na ja....the other brilliant idea is that Eastern Germany is alot more like Poland, Slovakia, Hungary etc....meaning not so much invested in wokism, multi-kulti, green/leftism and all that western flavour (meaning here mainly West-Germany, France, Britain)....40 years of living together in the Eastern-Bloc has left clear traces in the people and the land and that is not going away...

Once you can convince me Poland will be happy about millions of muslims from North Africa...Syria...Afghanistan etc...will still be glad about them, wanting to support them even after countless rapes and knife murders, blaming the Poles instead for their behaviour too...then maybe I will think we really are "wrong" and not rather NORMAL!


Wot??? You didn't like be before??? 🥺

Eastern Germany was different long before the formation of the Eastern Bloc.


Of course I liked you, but just as you say your government is weak now - so it seemed weak to me to avoid discussion of Nord Stream.

Otherwise of course, we are kameraden.

Really? How so?


*phew* :)

I think there was something there called Prussia?

True....the GDR tried to invoke abit prussian spirit....to build on some of it's traditions...contrary to the West....you could be onto something....

Even if that might also to be about that the western lands were less traditional prussian lands as Berlin and Brandenburg and such...western states have other traditions....Rhinelander, Bavarians (not to mention Austrians) etc. see themselves traditionally as different to Prussians (former and actual wannabes:)!

Prussian virtues (German: preußische Tugenden) are the virtues associated with the historical Kingdom of Prussia (1701-1918). They were derived from Prussia's militarism and the ethical code of the Prussian Army as well as from bourgeois values such as honesty and frugality that were influenced by Pietism and the Enlightenment. The so-called "German virtues" that include punctuality, order, and diligence can also be traced back to Prussian virtues.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_virtues

@Bratwurst Boy

Back on topic - I have read an interesting interview with the former Ukrainian ambassador to Germany, Andrey Melnik.

I don't know if you remember him, but he was quite good at generating constant scandal. He finally was recalled after he called Scholz a liver sausage, and told Poles to stop moaning about Bandera.

After Germany he was sent as ambassador to Brazil.

Most of the interview is him complaining about how Brazilians don't give a sh*t about Ukraine, but he does also discuss Germany.

He said that his replacement has "ruined all the progress that he achieved through blood, sweat and tears". This was funny, and quite satisfying to read.

But the important part - he said that while the governing coalition will continue to do everything to ignore the unpleasant Nord Stream situation, the German people themselves will behave differently.

Here, I will quote him:

I am afraid that this may affect not so much the level of the government, but the level of public sentiment. I feel it.

First, a large part of German society advocates a complete freeze of any aid to Ukraine, an end to the war, and forcing us to negotiate. And here you can also say: "Oh, so the Ukrainians destroyed our critical infrastructure, and we are helping them." So far, it seems to me, the government is deliberately avoiding this topic so as not to enter into these discussions.

Source: pravda.com.ua/articles/2024/08/30/7472580/

It's a funny interview with this moron. If you want to have a laugh you should read it with Google Translate.

Oh, of course....how could I not know or forget him! :)


....and of course, he is right with that too....I wonder if any gov with its Chancellor has been ever that unpopular in Germany!

But its not always the Ukraine-war.....especially not as the "freshness" is gone and it seems to develop into a long, drawn-out war! The problems with illegal muslims, as only a few days beck with the Solingen-murder shown again, are alot more important with many people....

....I better go now, my typos get worse and worse! :)

*waves and takes helmet*

Yes - the anti-ambassador! Probably the most unique ambassador in the world, who dedicates all his energy to insulting his host country.

His problem now, however, is that the Brazilians have no patience for his bullsh*t. He's such a turd, that he explains this out loud, and compares them at the same time to spineless Germans.

Truly an incredible ambassador! A faithful representative of his nation.

Quote:

- You are a supporter of rather non-standard diplomatic solutions. Being the ambassador to Germany, you used your Twitter as a tool to influence your German colleagues. Does this social network help you during your diplomatic mission in Brazil?

- Everything you write on Twitter is immediately read and reported personally to the minister. I know this because Brazilians tell me about it directly, they react very painfully to these posts.

Brazil is a country where society lives in social networks, perhaps even more than in Ukraine. Therefore, they understand the power of social media, as well as the unintended consequences of being out of control. They are really afraid that if they lose control of the mainstream in public opinion, then the situation could get out of control.

Germans are quite delicate people and at certain stages they were not able to outline "red lines", on the other hand, in Brazil, they do it, believe me, very harshly and brutally. Straight to the face, even with threats. That is, what I feel in Brazil and what I go through here is not child's play.

In Brazil, I am forced to act more gently and restrained than I did in Germany.

They say, "We don't like what you're doing on Twitter. You shouldn't be doing it." This is said at the level of the leadership of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. You can ignore it, but they tell you directly: "Well, you understand what will happen to you later." Therefore, we are working, but the methods, let's say, are a little different than in Germany. And it's hard.

It's "hard", he says. Brazilians don't like being insulted and extorted - how strange!

@Bratwurst Boy


Well, you probably know that this is is just one of the first steps the AfD wants to implement. There is a logic behind it. Start with steps most people get behind and then gradually ease them in with more radical ones.

Besides, no decent person can vote dor Björn Höcke.

Germany does indeed have problems with immigration, as does Sweden, France, the UK,NL, Italy and Greece.

It is a massive problem that needs sorting out before it gets worse, but none of the governments of those countries are taking it seriously enough!

As for Germany's support of Ukraine, it has been fairly weak and getting weaker......shame on you Germans!

@Miloslaw


I'd say giving more money and weapons than any other European country while housing the most refugees and having to compensate other countries for the aid they give in sorm shape or form (via EPF, Ring exchange, or sending them replacements from Switzerland) is a pretty solid contribution.

Like, I get it that Germany could always do more and if you asked me, we should have invested more into aiding Ukraine than some of the newly introduced welfare programs of the Scholz government. But claiming that Germany is doing little is honestly ridiculous. The UK - who could be argued have a much stronger responsibility for Ukraine as a party to the Budapest referendum - are spending less than half of what Germany does on lethal aid (never mind the refugees) this year. And they are still miles ahead of the likes of Italy and France. And at some point the money and material will run out. Not saying that this is smart, or that it would not be better to send more aid. But even Warsaw has followed the logic a year ago when it seized new deliveries to Ukraine.

Only just,you gave slightly more military aid than the UK but you are a far bigger economy, you need to do more.


That is a problem of your own making....... talk to Merkel.....


Good.I am glad you agree with me!


Agreed, Italy and especially France's support of Ukraine is nothing short of shameful!
The Germans could do more but they are not shameful like the French.

@Miloslaw


I'd call more than twice as much for 2024 more than "slightly more". And that is on top of caring for 10x as many Ukrainian refugees and the substantial economic and humanitarian aid we give Ukraine.


Sure, as I see it, it is more effective to give weapons to Ukraine than to rearm our BW. The same goes Poland, it would be smarter to donate the latest increase of the defence budget to Ukraine than to put it into Polish stocks. Or at least find a good balance between restocking with modern weapons and sensing modern weapons to Ukraine.

You are showing your true colors you toxic leftie.
AfD is a German problem and choice. I say it can't be that much worse than the current German establishment - when it comes to Poland.

@Ironside


The current German government is generally interested in having positive relations with Poland, is on the same page on Ukraine and supports the membership of organizations that are essential to Poland's security (NATO and EU) and is supporting the placement of american missiles in Germany that would also help to protect Poland.

The AfD wants to leave the EU and NATO (destroying the former and fatally undermining the latter), would doom Ukraine and leave Poland to deal with the fallout, and would certainly pursue less positive ties with Poland due to revisionist views on the Third Reich. I get it that the present state often looks unsatiafactory, but you should not dismiss the value of the current relationship for Poland. There is a lot to be lost if the AfD took power.

That is correct. If only your government would stop pushing the Green Khmers' agenda and switched from mass immigration to mass deportation mode, there would definitely be a visible improvement in German-Polish relations.

Not sure what you mean with Green policies As I see it, Poland is not forced to repeat the German folly of shutting down your nuclear plants (instead it is building new ones) while pushing reneweables over fossil fuels is objectively speaking the right call and necessary if Europe does not fall behind the USA and China on this market. That is one issue where the Greens are unmistakeably right