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Is NORD STREAM dangerous for Poland's natural enviroment?


Spike31 2 | 2,098
1 May 2020 #271
The fact is that Poland won in an international arbitration court in Stockholm.

Now Russia's got two choices: to pay and end this case or not to pay and create precedence. A precedence which will be used against them in the future not only by Poland by anyone else who deals with them. Gazprom will also show how unreliable as a partner they are, that's hardly what they need right now under American sanctions over NS2.

This way or another Poland will still take back that money at the end. It can be deducted from the last payment at the end gas contract with gazprom which ends in 2022.

But I believe gazproim will pay that fine, after a traditional (for Russia) period of psychological games. Yes, they are unpredictable and they like to use gas as a political weapon but at the end of the day they realize that they're just a huge, armed pertol station for Europe. And they're only singnificant source of income comes from selling gas and oil and crude minerals to more developed countries.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,629
5 Aug 2020 #272
Interesting...

The association "Deutsche Umwelthilfe" is going to court (in Stralsund) to revoke the operational licence for Nord Stream 2.

They say new scientific findings show that the pipeline leaks unhealthy "climate gas" Methane (much worse than CO2)...and that with these findings the construction would had never been allowed in the first place.

spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/nord-stream-2-umwelthilfe-will-pipeline-mit-klage-stoppen-a-26b75f35-5315-433c-bed8-2a2ff8f7549f
dolnoslask 6 | 3,531
5 Aug 2020 #273
Methane.

Thought they were thinking of pumping hydrogen instead?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,629
5 Aug 2020 #274
....even as Nordstream is nearly done already it seems even the in Germany very powerful climate "lobby" is against Nordstream now...only Merkel is still missing. Wouldn't be the first time she changes her opinion about 180°, why not here?
pawian 176 | 14,299
5 Aug 2020 #275
The association "Deutsche Umwelthilfe" is going to court (in Stralsund)

What is their weight? Can they exert any real pressure or they are just one of many objectors?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,629
5 Aug 2020 #276
...it's a sign, not much more. The rest will depend on the outcome.

Before a request of inspection was declined by the responsible Bergamt Stralsund. Now the Umwelthilfe want's to force it through a court decision.

Here some background info about the DUH in English:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_Action_Germany

What is their weight? Can they exert any real pressure or they are just one of many objectors?

They are quite mean! Their dissuasions are mostly legally sound and can be very expensive...they are very unpopular and even feared by politicians and business leaders...they love to force people and whole companies to court and to punish them with hefty fines when they see the environment endangered.

Think about a club of green tinged money thirsty and merciless lawyers! :)
Crow 146 | 9,097
4 Jan 2021 #277
Nothing won`t be same anymore. Southern Dragon raised from his knees, still wounded but already perform miracles.

Very important for Poland. Serbia is now main energy hub and point of distribution of cheapest gas in Europe. The matter of life for Poland ..... Serbia - Poland via Hungary and Slovakia. Let it flow...

s

Serbian President Opens Key Section Of Russia-Led Balkan Pipeline
rferl.org/a/serbia-vucic-balkan-stream-natural-gas-pipeline-opening/31029293.html

"A big day for Serbia!" Vucic posted on Instagram. During the event, he praised the project as "key for Serbia's future development."

s

Balkan Stream started to function. Ultimate solution for Poland. Its not just about secured (!) transit of gas for Poland. I spoke here earlier that Serbia have contract with Russia that allows Serbia to buys unlimited quantities of Russian cheap gas and sell it to ANY third side. No need to say that now Poland can make a deal directly with Serbia and then via Hungary and Slovakia have unlimited supply of Russian gas, without necessity to politically agree with Russia. It also means that Poland have open all options, any form of payment or even exchange agreed bilaterally with Serbia, in providing gas for its industry. And Poland was and is by Serbia always seen as strategic partner and much more then that. Not even the USA or EU can offer such a options to Poland.

See, this is what I told here many times. Serbia bringing balance, firstly into the Slavic civilization and then also to Europe and world. We can make it.

In a Geo-strategic sense, political commentators here says that Balkan Stream represent victory of pro-Serbian lobby in Russia over the pro-German lobby. Actually, commentators even says that Russia lost interest in strategic cooperation with Germany considering historical German backstabbing.

Sharing info with Poles and Poland so they know more < youtube.com/watch?v=kHibG19pM8s

No gold winters for children of Poland.

All historical investments of Poland into Serbia, all blood of our northern brethren for our freedom pays off.

ps

! Close to the path of Balkan Stream ! - Table on the renovated monument to Zawisha Czarny at a site where he died fighting Turks, in back then Serbian Despotate
Tacitus 2 | 1,228
4 Jan 2021 #278
Crow, are you really that stupid? That pipe line is an attempt of Russia to diversify its' pipe line network and make it less relient on transit countries like Poland and the Ukraine. Thus you won't find anyone in Poland who'd be happy about this.
Crow 146 | 9,097
4 Jan 2021 #279
If Hungary and Slovakia are happy why Poland wouldn`t be happy?

Hungary banks on Balkan Stream to triple capacity of gas supply to Slovakia
euractiv.com/section/energy/news/hungary-banks-on-balkan-stream-to-triple-capacity-of-gas-supply-to-slovakia/

Hungary will triple the capacity of a natural gas pipeline border interconnector towards Slovakia by 2024

Tacitus 2 | 1,228
4 Jan 2021 #280
Because again, this pipeline undermines Poland's status as a transit country, costing Poland potential transit fees.

Hungary is happy for the same reason, because it now suddenly became a transit country.
Crow 146 | 9,097
4 Jan 2021 #281
I mentioned earlier. Ukraine pipeline would be out of functions in a few years. Its lifespan is near to an end. Needs enormous investments to be in order. Russia isn`t interested to invest there because of whole situation and seek new, safer and strategic vital, transit lines. Then there is also higher Geo-strategy.

So, what would be Poland`s situation without pipeline in Ukraine? If not for Balkan Stream Poland would entirely depend on Nord Stream. Even very hint of this idea is abominable to Poland.

Do you now understand?

Germany desired this situation but, neither Poland, neither Serbia, neither Visegrad, neither Russia, neither USA desire that situation. With Serbia in the game for transit, Russia proves that have no desire to play with Germany against Poland. That time is past. I gave you link of video > // youtube.com/watch?v=kHibG19pM8s // and there Serbian political analyzer elaborates that Russia gave up from Germany because Germany became historically untrustworthy, while strong Serbia can be factor of global world stability. In that sense, if Germany complicates, by having Balkan Stream, Russia may cut off Germany at any time. It is also tool in hands of Serbia to prevent German meddling in affairs of Balkan states and endanger consolidation of Serbian realm (entire former Yugoslavia and even entire Balkan gravitate to Belgrade when no foreign meddling).

Also, for all who understand global politics obviously understand that Balkan Stream coming in existence as agreement between the USA and Russia, so their politics don`t depend on EU. Actually, keep open options for emergence of Central European Union.
Spike31 2 | 2,098
5 Jan 2021 #282
Norwegian DNV GL refused certification of "Nord Stream 2"

And without a valid certification, the pipe cannot be used even if it was completed.

tellerreport.com/business/2021-01-02-%0A---norwegian-dnv-gl-refused-certification-of-%22nord-stream-2%22%0A--.HJMBI7R6P.html

A second batch of the US sanctions already works.
Crow 146 | 9,097
5 Jan 2021 #283
@Spike31

Thanks for sharing info. That`s a one more proof that the USA and Russia agreed on Balkan Stream (considering Ukrainian pipeline soon ending its functional lifespan) and that Germany in the first place pushing for Nord Stream, what I understand from economical and Geo-strategic aspect.
Spike31 2 | 2,098
5 Jan 2021 #284
I'm in the middle of this very interesting book written by a Polish author: "Energiewende. A new German empire"

Germany is in the middle of an energy sector transformation. They're closing nuclear power plants and replacing them with wind and solar farms. But they also need gas.

Why? Because solar itself is unstable and unsustainable and they need a solid source of energy: a gas from Russia.

In the long run, Germany wants to become a major European gas hub and wind/solar power provider. The CO2 tax enforced by the EU will act as an equalizer against the traditional power plants producing the energy from coal making energy produced from alternative sources more competitive.

Nuclear power will be immune to CO2 tax and that's why Germans are so concerned about Polish plans for building nuclear power plants with the Americans.

So Germans got this nice little plan for becoming a central European gas and energy hub.

But then the **** hit the fan and the American sanctions on Nord Stream II happened...



Tacitus 2 | 1,228
5 Jan 2021 #285
Always funny what kind of sinister plans people interpret into a decidion that was based on an irrational fear against nuclear energy. You are giving us too much credit here.
Spike31 2 | 2,098
5 Jan 2021 #286
You are giving us too much credit here.

I rather overestimate than underestimate the opponent. Especially when it's a high stake game
Ironside 50 | 10,933
5 Jan 2021 #287
I rather overestimate than underestimate

It is all rather hypothetical If we have Poland rules by a mob of morons and half-wits who give in to any stay lame dog. Be it from EU by it from any other part of the world.
Crow 146 | 9,097
6 Jan 2021 #288
But they also need gas.

Why?

For the industry in the first place. You can use other energy for transportation and heating houses but in next 100 to 200 years science don`t have a solution to completely abandon oil and gas in industry. Now, resources are limited and THAT is primary reason why humanity must reduce use of gas and oil on industry as soon as possible. Sure, climatic changes may be primary reason for you and me but for the truly big magnates first come their personal interest. So, it is good for mankind when interests of magnates and ordinary people overlap and there comes clean technology, electric cars, etc.

Because solar itself is unstable and unsustainable

That, too. Also, gas has low emission of carbon and in itself represent green technology in comparison to previous solutions.
Crow 146 | 9,097
6 Feb 2021 #289
Ha, look how masks rapidly falling down. Austria decided to renew its support to Nord Stream 2.

> b92/biz/vesti/svet.php?yyyy=2021&mm=02&dd=06&nav_id=1807000

Let me just put simple questions. Did my brethren from Poland expected Austria to side with Central Europe instead with Germany? Did you expected from Austria support to Poland`s interests over Catholic solidarity?

Well, you mistaken. After all, Hitler was Austrian and he didn`t wish well to Poland.

But see now how Gavrilo did well for Poland, too? If AH continued to exist until today Slavs of Poland would be completely Germanized, Poland never to be restored. And that with blessings from the Vatican.
JacekthePole 1 | 45
9 Feb 2021 #290
Nordstream2 demonstrates EU ''Solidarity'' at it's finest. We all stick together to do what's in the ''common'' interest, except if Germany and the rich northern states disagree, then they pull rank. Saw it with the Financial Crisis, the refugee crisis and Nordstream 2

END THIS TERRIBLE UNION
Crow 146 | 9,097
9 Feb 2021 #291
Listen. Russian-German's contract on Nord Stream is a joke. By the contract, the deal can be or can`t be. There is Balkan stream operational and gas first goes to Poland and just then Germany gets gas via Poland.
Crow 146 | 9,097
12 Feb 2021 #292
Spot development and see how German dreams becoming nightmares.

Germany responded: These statements are really worrying
b92/eng/news/world.php?yyyy=2021&mm=02&dd=12&nav_id=110406

Relations with the EU could be severed if Brussels imposes sanctions that are risky for sensitive spheres of the economy, Lavrov stated.

"These statements are really worrying and incomprehensible," said a spokeswoman for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, while government spokeswoman Steffen Seibert



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