Karol Nawrocki - the New President of Poland

@Torq, thank you, I decided not to even honour it with a comment lol


I don't know about that. He is probably better fit for a president. But as for being a prime minister - we would only see if he tried.


You really want KO/the coalition to lose in next elections, don't you lol


If this is true then this is exactly why PSL has little respect among Polish people. That would mean they only care about power and koryto, not Poland :(((


Debunking lies and calling out liars isn't a "meltdown". And even if I asked Ptak I doubt that I'd get a normal answer.

Well, politics is not for the faint-hearted, overly honest, or people who think 'spin' is just a washing machine setting.

PSL has been on the Polish political scence since 1895. For comparison, PO and PiS were created in 2001 and Konfederacja in 2018 - political babies. PSL was around long before POPiS and Konfederacja, and it will be around long after nobody even remembers that such parties existed. All for the greater good of Poland, of course. Nie rzucim ziemi skąd nasz ród, Żywią y Bronią, and all that.

Also, "People who like sausage and politics shouldn't watch either being made." ;)

You mean they've survived for so long, because they've had no moral spine?


Not for the greater good of Poland, but for the perceived good of their party. Partia, not patria. And you know very well that Kosiniak-Kamysz would be just another PiS' puppet in such a government that they would discard later on after he would serve his purpose.

Moral spine? When did you acquire this taste for luxuries?


But having a commonsensical, centrist, down-to-earth, moderate element in a rightist, Eurosceptical PiS-Konfederacja government is essential for the greater good of Poland. It will introduce some much needed balance as well as allow PSL to veto the more extremist ideas of Kaczyński and Mentzen. Without PSL they will have no majority, so they will have to take our wise, balanced voice into account. A win-win situation.

Besides, Russia can still win the war in Ukraine. PSL, with many members remembering the old Poland-Soviet Union cooperation, will be able to create a thin (but still) thread of understanding between the Polish government and that of His Excellency Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin (a bit of a wild Asian but our Slavic brother nonetheless). Gotta see the larger picture, Paulina. Don't be so naive.

But he's a d1ck.

It looks like I was born with it.


I see you're the one being naive. PSL would become just another przystawka at PiS' table lol


They don't have to be part of PiS government in order to do that.


Wow, do you have a screw loose or something... o_O' 🤮🤮🤮

Technically impossible, they might practically win over time and occupy Ukraine formally and spout whatever they want on international stage and foreign countries small and large, and look victorious.

But, they lost the heart of Ukraine. Just as the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth lost Ukrainian land's heart to Russia in the past.

Just as U.S.A could bomb mercilessly Vietnam to bits and anhiliate populations. It forced all of their hearts to turn to Vietcong.

Russia har forced every Ukrainian to either be Russian or Ukrainian. A majority in Ukraine has seeds of hate for Russia and love for Ukraine now instead of the apathy of both in mid 90's.

This is something that will take centuries to repair (just look at the Middle East).

Russia is not some country far away that can easily have a period of chilling it out and be careful. It's Ukraine's neighbour.

Russia can't win it, no matter how powerful it is. Until smarter and cooler heads win political control and/or influence Russia will remain in that swamp they themselves created thanks to Putin.

Austria-Hungary had it's Serbia, Ottoman Empire it's Vienna and Byzantium had it's battle of Constantinople.

This will be the end of Russia, and Russia walks in to it willingly.

Poland's political scene should concentrate more efforts in having good relations with any non-Putin political force in Russia, cause they are the only ones who can fix even temporary this situation.

Russians tend to be far more grateful for help then Ukrainians, but more angry over betrayal while Ukrainians seem to just expect it.

*sighs*

It is sometimes difficult being the only Polish adult on a forum full of misbehaving children...

@Torq
Misbehaving or not, Russia's next leader after Putin will most likely not be from Putin's camp. Cause the next leader won't be Putin himself. It will split and fight each other and after a time consolidate around a leader that has nothing to do with both as a form of truce for the time being. If that person shines, Russia will have a bright future. Anything else will spiral Russia down a murky dark rabbit hole that will force itself to focus on internal affairs and not be able to afford outward expansion. Think about it

No normal Polish adult or child would call Putin "His Excellency" and suggest that the Polish government should create "a thread of understanding" with that psychopath. Putin is a pariah for Poland and should remain one, no matter who will win this war.

I don't have to think about it; thanks to Bobko I read Sorokin.

Anyways, Poland will have to one day normalise her relations with Russia whether it is Putin or the devil himself in charge. Think about it.


Janusz Korwin-Mikke does. No, wait... you might have a point...

Grow up. Still better than those retards you support.
---

PO is a progressive party. Doesn't matter what they call themselves; other than that, PLS always supports left-wing parties. That is a fact.
---

@Torq
On a formal level it should always or as long as possible or via channels in neutral countries. Poland cannot afford to have zero ties with Russia despite Russia's choices. But to bet on Putin and his gang is madness

We'll see what you say when Kosiniak-Kamysz enters into alliance with PiS and Konfa...

wpolityce.pl/polityka/731771-ankieta-w-psl-zapytano-o-sojusz-z-pis-i-konfederacja

tvn24.pl/polska/koalicja-z-pis-i-konfederacja-kosiniak-kamysz-na-premiera-ankieta-dla-dzialaczy-psl-st8498501

... he he. :)


I'm not betting on them.

He almost certainly will be from Putin's camp - on this you can put money.

Nothing less would satisfy all the various influence groups existing in Russia - except for perhaps the liberal opposition and the communists.

Everyone made enormous fortunes during Putin's reign. There must be guarantees, that there will not be attempts to reverse these events. Putin maintained his promise to the Yeltsin family to not touch them, even though he very much wanted to. In the same way, whoever will replace Putin will have to promise to honor the status quo - otherwise they will not be allowed anywhere near the steering wheel.

You have to calm the oligarchs. You have to give comfort to the intelligence and law enforcement "nobility". You have to reassure the various regional princelings like Kadyrov. You have to garner the support of the governors, and powerful mayors.

Beyond that, you have the presidents of the former republics - who also feel they have a voice in who leads Russia. Strongmen in places like Tajikistan and Turkmenistan rely massively on Russian political cover. They must be reassured that whoever takes the throne in Russia, will not disturb previous understandings and allow them to continue to plunder their countries and build dynastic monarchies.

Nearly all these people were formed during the last 25 years. Anybody who remembers well the Yeltsin years is approaching retirement. So everybody is a product of the Putin system, and everybody owes Putin something.

Whoever replaces him, will emerge from within the system, and will protect the system from any attempts to destabilize it.

If you talk about the best among retards, sure why not. Still better if he makes some other country happy with his presidency.
---

What moral spine do you have? Few biases and some prejudices based on nothing.
--

It is a fiction, it is a very unlikely construction. However, JK would like to have PSL as his coalition partner, for sure.
--

Grow up. Politics is not an outlet to vent your feelings about issues you have no clue about. Torq, at least with such theoretical options, proves that his brain is not dead.

Bobby, from me, you would always get a normal/truthful answer. I really have a little tolerance for purposeful liars. So being called abnormal by Paulina
I am proudly wearing it like a badge of honor.Your questioning my veracity is a different matter altogether. The overblown bag of lies and disinformation from
Paulina, I have fun with her, she can't help herself, lack of reliable sources, and critical thinking make Paulina what she is. Take Google and Wikipedia away
From her, and all you get is krzykliwa sroka.Sorry, I thought I was answering Bobby, but it fits your comment anyway. As far as Johnny is concerned, he got the right
to dislike rinse and repeat, and selecting you as a prime offender

It won't be that easy. Already 70% of Russians don't like Poland. Only Ukraine is more disliked, but that's the country they're fighting with.

Everybody who has some clue about the issue agrees on that point.

@Ironside
I wasn't talking about the defacto leader, not the guy that's get's chosen within Putin's camp. The guy you guys imagine is shortsighted and doomed to fail.

The real fight between liberals and conservatives happens within the Kremlin. That is, within the cabinet of ministers. It's an old Russian tradition.

The Tsar oversees the squabbles between the two camps, and when it starts getting out of hand - steps in to mediate.

The liberals traditionally come from the economic bloc. They control the Ministry of Finance, Central Bank, Ministry of Economic Development, Audit Chamber, and so on.

They are friends of foreign investment, hate sanctions, and believe Russia cannot hope to catch up in living standards without Western technology and access to Western markets.

The conservatives come from the intelligence community, law enforcement, the military, and sometimes the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

These guys have never earned an honest dollar in their lives, and have instead lived entirely on the government budget. They don't understand fancy words like "investment climate", "ease of doing business", or "macroeconomic stability". They understand that Russia is a great and powerful country, but it's not being treated as such. They see the liberals as an annoying hurdle on the way to "mobilizing the spirits of the Russian nation".

Depending on his mood, one day Putin may be a liberal, and then another day he may be a conservative. It depends on what's happening.

If the West is enforcing sanctions, and the business community is running around like headless chickens - then Putin puts on his "business friendly" hat and comes out to tell everyone that "I'm not crazy! Don't worry! I know what you are worried about, and I won't allow it!"

If there are instead problems at the front, then Putin will make a very serious face, and say very stern things about having to crackdown on immigration (even though he knows this is the worst fear of the business community).

In the end, he usually does neither thing, and just lets things flow by inertia.

I did, but it doesn't look like Braun did.


You wouldn't recognize a moral spine even if it hit you in the face.


Tell that to PiS lol


So, johnny_reb, how all of this crap that Ptak wrote about me is "sarcasm" and "tongue-in-cheek"? Could you explain?

Which means that 30% of Russians don't dislike Poland--a solid base to start building from if such need arises.

Besides, don't be a naive male version of Paulina. People can be taught to love or hate, it happens all the time. Some Yezhovs, Trotskys and Zinovievs will be airbrushed out of official photos, some will be photoshopped in; some monuments will be razed, some will be fixed or raised again; some talented writers and film makers will be given generous subsidies and state-honours, and the 30% in both countries will become 90% (perhaps 95% if all goes well).

Stop being such damn kids.


That's what I'm talking about! For the good of one's country, Slavia and the world in general, certain views may be reconsidered and necessary changes applied.

I admire your concerns, on the surface, noble intention, but I doubt that Torq thinks of Putin as Excellency, detecting the true meaning is a huge void in your , by
Google reasoning,

Putin is like some caterpillar/butterfly in terms of how many times he metamorphosed.

There's Chechen War Putin - who doesn't sleep, but only thinks of killing Islamists. Always surrounded by military men, and holding midnight meetings of the Security Council.

Then there was Euro-Atlanticist Putin. Who addresses German parliaments in fluent German, is the darling of Davos, and best friend of George Bush. The guy that Gerhardt Schroeder fell in love with, and that Sarcozy and Berlusconi adored.

There's paranoid and conspiratorial Putin, that sees in every Navalny and Nemtsov a traitor - despite earlier being on good personal terms with at least one of them. This Putin, pushes away liberal friends with whom he's been acquainted for more than 30 years - like Alexis Kudrin and German Gref. Instead he surrounds himself with old buddies from the KGB.

Now we have the Tsar Putin era. He's now floating on some plane, impossible for normal mortals to comprehend. He doesn't care about economics, trade, or other such boring things. No - now Putin only thinks and acts like a world historical force. Everything else, other people have to manage.

I'm curious about your opinion as an intelligent Russian:
You thoughts:

@Torq, it looks like PSL has stronger moral spine than you do:

wiadomosci.wp.pl/wyniki-ankiety-w-psl-dzialacze-o-koalicji-z-pis-i-konfederacja-7165147276356544a

"PSL's spokesman Miłosz Motyka stressed that there's currently no talks about a coalition with anti-democratic parties. He pointed out that the vast majority of PSL members is against a cooperation with PiS and 70% of members are in favour of upholding the current coalition."

So, patria instead of partia after all :) 👏🇵🇱👍


He's best buddies with Bobko, so who knows what's going on in that RuSSophilic head of his...

Maybe you haven't grown enough to understand Braun.
--

Don't be silly, I know what is right and is what is wrong and how things should be, as well I can logically back it up. You can't, you have few opinions and some prejudices nd think you are great. Also, if that is your dig at me personally, I can't help it sometimes to behave rigidly within moral scope, it only proves I'm human.
--

I'm telling you. Do you wonder why?
--

Supporting the Tusk government is no patriotism is stupid.

From your description dobri brat Vladimir sounds like a proper statesman, villain, psychopath and genius. Perhaps not the easiest combination of traits to deal with but, as late Pope Francis used to say, who are we to judge?

You made several very good points about the system of power in Russia being built on Putin and about the understanding between different camps of power. We used to have something similar in Poland not that long ago (wy nie ruszacie naszych, my nie ruszamy waszych) but it changed with Tusk's return to power in 2023 when he started to act a bit like a rabid dog.

One way or another, as good strategists (amateur but still), we have to remain vigilant and open for different variants of future events, without presupposed answers and solutions, prejudices and hatred in our hearts.


Brat Miłosz might find himself airbrushed out of certain photos in the future.


Nobody.

I am a Slav, the sounds of Vienna waltzes and that of horses' hooves on wild Asian steppes can be heard simultaneously playing in my head. So there.

Stop struggling, it's not in your nature to understand sarcasm, all you need to realize is that ptak is the epitome of truth and when needed, a skilful applicator
of sarcasm, in other words, something you will not learn from Google