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Forbes: Boot Argentina from the G20 and include Poland


peterweg 36 | 2,316
19 Apr 2012  #1
G20: Boot Argentina, Include Poland

Time to say adios to Christina Kirchner's crew (Image credit: AFP/Getty Images via @daylife)

Planning is well under way in Los Cabos on the Mexican peninsula for the July summit of the G20 economic powers-or as I like to refer to it, the G19 + Argentina. So, it is surely too late to change the guest list, even though Argentina continues to deteriorate under re-elected President Christina Fernandez de Kirchner into a tinhorn republic with stooge ministers and national accounts not reputable enough to appear in the Economist's statistical tables.

For now, as the future of the G20 is mapped, a swap of Argentina for Poland should be actively considered. Someday the once-significant Argentines could return from the minor leagues, but that's not on the horizon.

forbes.com/sites/timferguson/2012/04/09/g20-boot-argentina-include-poland/
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
19 Apr 2012  #2
Have you ever seen The Mouse That Roared ?
Foiled invasion of Las Malvinas, tempt the RAF to drop a couple of bombs vaguelly on Argie territory and then swallow up all the reconstruction aid and skip a couple of points up the wealth charts......
sascha 1 | 826
19 Apr 2012  #3
Forbes: Boot Argentina from the G20 and include Poland

as if that 'club' would be based only on numbers. who believes in that bs?

those circles are more or less the sam kind of show/theater like UN.
Meathead 5 | 470
20 Apr 2012  #4
G20: Boot Argentina, Include Poland

The Elite are angry at Argentina because they want to nationalize the oil industry down there and why not? Every other country has done it. Poland is just another China, it depends on German largesse for its economy much like China depends on the US. That's why the Elite love'em.
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
20 Apr 2012  #5
Elite? my arse. You must be a communist. Kirchner is/represents a country and her actions are an act of aggression against another country, she qualifies as an elite in your communist world view.

They sold the company to Repsol ten years ago, the current Presidents husband voted for the sale and stole $700million form the proceeds. They knew exactly what they were doing, selling something to a foreigner than stealing it back.

Incidentally, 25% of the company is owned by a friend of her dead husband (Eskenazis ), he bought the share so that Argentinians would be part share holders and at the behest of the dead husband/former president. For some reason the current Kirchner president has stolen Repsols share and not Eskenazis's, the result of which is Eskenazis is going bankrupt and will lose his billion dollar business empire in Argentina. Kirchner is taking revenge on Eskenazis for what ever reason.
Peter Cracow
22 Apr 2012  #6
Boot Argentina and include Poland

Nice, but impossible. European point of view is represented on G20 very strongly. I am not convicted that Poland needs that kind of economical unnecessary tibute.
pawian 157 | 9,104
22 Apr 2012  #7
Forbes: Boot Argentina from the G20 and include Poland

Only if Argentina takes over Falkland Islands again.

Poland should stand by her ally, Great Britain, and replace Argentina in G20.
jon357 63 | 14,120
22 Apr 2012  #8
The Elite are angry at Argentina because they want to nationalize the oil industry down there and why not?

'The elite'?? Ha.

One problem with Argentina (the main problem for economists) is the litany of broken promises, the endemic corruption, the mounting public debt and the absolute lack of fiscal transparency.

Only if Argentina takes over Falkland Islands again

In Kirchner's dreams.

You know she recently called on Argentina to stop importing British goods and eventually have a ban. Despite the fact that all they import from the UK are speciality teas, whisky and biscuits whereas the UK is a major buyer of Argentinian goods.
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
22 Apr 2012  #9
Poland should stand by her ally, Great Britain,

Thanks,but,I wouldnt get mixed up in this one if I were you.
I hope this stays a war of words,Im pretty sure it will,but,if it doesnt and Argentina invades again...........ah well, the descendants of a bunch of nazi war criminals wanting to expand and put people who have no wish to be under their "protection"....not really surprising.

A rather famous Argentinian once summed up the feelings of people who face occupation by a foreign regime.... Patria O Muerte.......
sascha 1 | 826
22 Apr 2012  #10
Poland should stand by her ally, Great Britain, and replace Argentina in G20.

thats the best ticket to be doomed. bon voyage poland...
CoachPaul - | 7
1 May 2012  #11
As someone who is currently living in Argentina and moving soon to Poland, I agree with the Forbes recommendation ;)
pawian 157 | 9,104
1 May 2012  #12
Which is w

As someone who is currently living in Argentina and moving soon to Poland, I agree with the Forbes recommendation ;)

Come on, why don`t you stick to your country?
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
2 May 2012  #13
Come on, why don`t you stick to your country?

Possibly because Argentina is a complete failure as a country. This guy emigrated to Northern Ireland to get away from it, his grandfather escaped the Spanish civil war and now his has reversed the move.

ferfal.blogspot.com

He's and his family are more happy than they has ever been, its like getting out of jail.
El Gordo
2 May 2012  #14
Possibly because Argentina is a complete failure as a country

Can't be a bigger failure than POland,that's not possible.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,664
2 May 2012  #15
people come to this forum because for some reason they are interested in Poland, they live there or have Polish partners or whatever.
If you feel so very negative, don't bother coming here, go to Spanish forums maybe, unless they already kicked you out?
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
2 May 2012  #16
Can't be a bigger failure than POland,that's not possible.

You obviously know nothing about either country.
espana 17 | 911
2 May 2012  #17
now bolivia is doing the same ,spain should go to war and kill them , as we did before
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
2 May 2012  #18
spain should go to war and kill them , as we did before

UK will back up Spain on this, stealing companies at gunpoint is outrageous.

The long term effect will be that SA keeps being a useless, backward collection of colonial occupiers.
sascha 1 | 826
2 May 2012  #19
Possibly because Argentina is a complete failure as a country.

based on what is this estimation? clearify please.

now bolivia is doing the same ,spain should go to war and kill them , as we did before

spanish glorious colonialism is over. better take care of the current problem internally.

UK will back up Spain on this, stealing companies at gunpoint is outrageous.

how did they 'steal' a company?

The long term effect will be that SA keeps being a useless, backward collection of colonial occupiers.

what bs is that now? wher did you get that info/

btw, brasil is one of the most properous countries in the world and they are in south america....
Alligator - | 261
2 May 2012  #20
Yeah, and the latest rift in Argentina-Great Britain relations have no influence on Forbes...
GDP is not a very accurate indicator, in fact it is useless. I'm wondering why it is still used? Why they are using GDP to justify the G20 "membership"?
pawian 157 | 9,104
2 May 2012  #21
GDP is not a very accurate indicator, in fact it is useless. I'm wondering why it is still used? Why they are using GDP to justify the G20 "membership"?

But it`s the quickest of all.

What else do you propose instead?

cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ar.html
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
2 May 2012  #22
based on what is this estimation? clearify please.

The detailed experiences a of an Argentina who lived there all his life (see link). Plus observations of the insane ranting of their politicians and reading their crazy history.

Argentina is a basket case.

how did they 'steal' a company?

Entered the offices and arrested the employees at gun point. Expropriated all the assets - "Expropriation is the politically motivated and forceful confiscation and redistribution of private property outside the common law."

what bs is that now? wher did you get that info

Look at the Glorious history of the success of SA versus NA, largely due to this sort of stupidity

btw, brasil is one of the most properous countries in the world and they are in south america....

True, coming from the mess they were in its impressive, the jury is out on how long they will continue to succeed.

GDP is not a very accurate indicator, in fact it is useless.

All statistics and facts are useless if they go against your point of view.
sascha 1 | 826
2 May 2012  #23
Look at the Glorious history of the success of SA versus NA, largely due to this sort of stupidity

ok, the stupidities of NA are more 'elegant', in the country but mostly outside of NA? forgot about all the wars they started?

you honestly want to sell me that NA compared to SA is what, better? au, then you really dont get it.

action follows reaction, so if NA subpresses SA for generations, they are now at a point where they have confidence, economical power and they use it and take sort of revenge. for me that is ok. dont forget the puppet NA put in SA in place to control the continent. that was ok? get a grip man.

True, coming from the mess they were in its impressive, the jury is out on how long they will continue to succeed.

forget your western arrogance. its completely out of place here.
they will succeed as long as they make smart moves. they until now formed smart alliances and thats what its about...

The detailed experiences a of an Argentina who lived there all his life (see link).

does not explain anything. that guy/link is subjective. other person, other view. how come besides the outside/west people in argentina did not complain? as far as i remember their president is highly respected. dont give western bs here.
Alligator - | 261
2 May 2012  #24
But it`s the quickest of all.

Quickest but still useless. Welfare of society is not just about economic prosperity.
In some countries (I'm not going to point finger) children are sent to work instead of school. Economy is growing thanks to that and GDP is also growing. In USA high level of incarceration is also contributing to USA GDP growth.

What I'm saying is GDP does not reflect all aspects and needs of modern societies. Worse - it may conceal serious defects in the well-being and quality of life.

What else do you propose instead?

There are many new ways to measure progress of societies (not only economical one). OECD have for example Better Lives Dashboards, European Union is going to make new indicator based on European Quality of Life Survey, and many, many others. Almost every new approach is better than GDP in portraing the real state of wealth and well-being of country and society. Thats why I'm asking why GDP is still used?
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
2 May 2012  #25
does not explain anything. that guy/link is subjective. other person, other view. how come besides the outside/west people in argentina did not complain? as far as i remember their president is highly respected. dont give western bs here.

People complain a lot about the Kirchner's gangsterism within Argentina. Go and read up about the country's history before coming to any conclusion.

Start with the fact that Argentina is almost 100% Spanish and Italian only going back a generation, they consider themselves white men, the indigenous population were exterminated. They are westerners. Like you, stop with the (fake) moral superiority, as a German you are as guilty as any other Westerner, your BS is western BS, isn't it?
sascha 1 | 826
2 May 2012  #26
People complain a lot about the Kirchner's gangsterism within Argentina. Go and read up about the country's history before coming to any conclusion.

there are always people who complain, probably the same ones who would like to crawl in on NA arseee... ;)

Go and read up about the country's history before coming to any conclusion

unlike you i am not concluding anything. i am just offering to see all sides.

Like you, stop with the (fake) moral superiority, as a German you are as guilty as any other Westerner, your BS is western BS, isn't it?

again wrong. inlike you i am a critical thinker and dont follow what some mainstream media offers. my guess is that we are on different sides of the table. that 'west' what i see is leaving argentina alone, because it knows about its own sh1t and therefore puts the ball down.

Start with the fact that Argentina is almost 100% Spanish and Italian only going back a generation, they consider themselves white men, the indigenous population were exterminated.

so they are then nothing better than the yankees who extincted a whole population.

at the end it is the white man, the colonialist who makes the mess. dont take that out on the people in argentina and by pointing the finger i think europe has to shuttt up very very long...
OP peterweg 36 | 2,316
2 May 2012  #27
Quickest but still useless. Welfare of society is not just about economic prosperity.

True, but when talking about economic issues is the global standard to determine size and growth. People living hunter-gathering lifestyles maybe very happy but they have no influence on economic development/war.

so they are then nothing better than the yankees who extincted a whole population.

The are as bad as the Yankees when it comes to empire building, genocide and land grabbing. In 1981 they were withing hours off invading Chile, the intension was to steal land and resources through force; they only stopped when the Americans warned them they would not defeat Chile.

there are always people who complain, probably the same ones who would like to crawl in on NA arseee... ;)

You have no idea how bad Argentina is.

take that out on the people in argentina and by pointing the finger

The people, the society is the problem, so yes I will point a finger at them. Their politicians are thieves and scum, just like the people.

inlike you i am a critical thinker and dont follow what some mainstream media offers.

nope, you are a parrot for the Kremlin
sascha 1 | 826
2 May 2012  #28
nope, you are a parrot for the Kremlin

thanks. now i am an animal. dude you are really creative. no more arguments? now rants, insults. cool. expected.
have a nice evening with your nurse. :)

There are many new ways to measure progress of societies (not only economical one).

they more or less serve the same purpose, just in hidden form. wouldnt surprise if the ranking is still the same, since they 'created' those numbers
Alligator - | 261
2 May 2012  #29
True, but when talking about economic issues is the global standard to determine size and growth.

Global standard/lie and a very dangerous lie. I think that there is a place for unrealistic indicators (like GDP) in current crisis.
What is shown as economical and civilizational success is in fact a sign of social erosion. Everybody woould want to work near the place they live, walk home to eat lunch and after work have fun with family. But from the point of view of GDP it is better to live tens of kilometers away from home. Then loads of money and time are consumed by just getting to work. Lunch is of course eaten in city, probably some kind of fastfood. Nanny is taking care of children. Maybe some have to take overtime to pay for all that. Nominally such person is wealthier...

Governments like to boast a growth of GDP, but they don't say how GDP is increasing and/or decreasing the quality of life.
I'm not trying to pomote

hunter-gathering lifestyles

I hope you can see that ;)
I'm saying that GDP is a failure and we shouldn't stick to it as the only possible indicator. There are others more accurate.
sascha 1 | 826
2 May 2012  #30
some more facts to the topic.

peter, esp for you to read...

Argentine lower house starts YPF takeover debate

"(Reuters) - Argentina's lower house started debating the renationalization of the nation's largest energy company on Wednesday,a measure that is popular at home despite fierce criticism abroad..."

reuters.com/article/2012/05/02/us-argentina-ypf-idUSBRE8411D620120502


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