Why should Poland consider pursuing a strategic alliance with Russia?

A pessimistic cynic? Hmm...

In 1965, Marek Hłasko - a famous Polish writer - wrote how in 1944 in Warsaw he saw six Ukrainians rape a Polish girl (Hłasko's neighbour from the same house) and then use a teaspoon to extract her eyes, while all the time laughing and making jokes. Even German historians (e.g. Guenther Deschner), investigating the participation of Ukrainian units (including 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS - Galizien) in suppressing the Warsaw Uprising, were shocked by the bestiality displayed by the Ukrainians. Today, the same Waffen-SS unit is celebrated in Ukraine and considered heroes.

Ask me again if I am a pessimistic cynic.

Genuine question - what can one discuss with the Virgin during an entire hour, every single day?

I find it hard to talk to my brother or mother for more than 20 minutes every few days. Not because I don't enjoy their company, but because I find that I don't have very much to say. That is - I need more time, for more events to accumulate - so there is then something to discuss.

I'm not Belousov, and I don't have the lives of thousands of men on my conscience - so maybe I don't understand something...


I really wish we had an active Ukrainian poster on this forum. One who could be somewhat objective, instead of just a patriotic bot like the previous two we had.

Anything I write about Ukrainian attitudes towards Poland will be immediately suspect, because of the source...

Nonetheless - I read Ukrainian newspapers daily. Every other evening I tune in to watch their evening talk shows (which frequently feature top officials). Probably around 25% of my Twitter feed is Ukrainian language. I follow several Ukrainian public persons on Facebook.

I can tell you - the feelings are... complex.

1) There is some sense of inadequacy when comparing themselves to Poland.

2) At the same time, this state of being less developed and much poorer than Poland, somehow feels to them as a violation of the natural order of the universe.

3) This inadequacy/shame, leads to a constant search for some kind of justification. "They became rich off our backs," or "The Russians held us back," or "The EU pumped them full of cash".

4) The shame deepens through the low class of work done by Ukrainians in Poland. Drivers, retail clerks, janitors, nannies, etc.

5) Finally shame turns to anger, and then full blown delusions of "Cossackism" (equivalent of Polish Sarmatism or Japanese Samuraism).

6) Poland constantly needling them with the Volhyn Massacres doesn't do any good. Not only are they treated as "the help", they are also being told that they are bloodthirsty apes suffering from historical amnesia. This sends them ballistic with fury.

And in general - the cultural undercurrent in Ukraine, for centuries, was extremely Polonophobic. In Ukraine, the novel Taras Bulba plays the same role, if not larger, as Ogniem i Mieczem plays in Poland. The whole book is one long anti-Polish screed.

The most quoted line from the book, that every single Ukrainian child knows, is "Well, did your Poles help you?".

This line has been quoted 10 million times by Ukrainians over the past two years, as Polish farmers dumped their grain onto highways, truckers blocked the border control points, and governments refused to hand over aging MiG jets.

A correction here: it was Ukrainian Schutzmannschaft Bataillon der Sicherheitspolizei and a Ukrainian police company, not Galizien units.


You do not "discuss". You pray, you ask for her wisdom and humility in accepting God's will, and you offer your services as her knight and slave.


Colour me unsurprised. We are the perfect scape-goat. I said it a long time ago - if Ukrainians lose against Russia, they will somehow find a way to blame Poland for it.

Just for some more context, for people unfamiliar with Gogol...

The line above is spoken by Taras Bulba, the protagonist of the book, to his son Andriy. Taras Bulba is a grizzled Ukrainian warlord, who symbolizes the Orthodox faith, the Cossack way of life, and eternal resistance to the Polish-Lithuanian Catholic nobility.

Andriy is Taras' good-for-nothing youngest son. Unlike loyal and pious Ostap (the Hector), Andriy is a sh*t for brains that follows the commands of his dick (Paris, to continue the Iliad analogy). He betrayed the Cossacks and joined the Polish side out of love for a Polish noblewoman.

Finally, one day Taras confronts him on the battlefield, and before executing him, delivers this line as a final judgment.

«Ну что, помогли тебе твои ляхи?»

Moral of the story - you can be loyal to Poles, but the Poles will value your loyalty for nothing. Meanwhile, your "bros" will surely come for you - and remember all your Polonophilia.

That seems to be quite normal behaviour for all Easterners.....the Poles feel that way about Germany....the East-Germans feel that way about West-Germany....and if I remember correctly alot of russian grief about the West sounds also quite similiar! ;)

PS: Is Ukrainian easy for a Russian? Is it only a kind of dialect or so?

That's just retarded.


By practically building their entire heavy industry and gifting them lands that never belonged to Ukraine in the past?


In 20 years (2004-2024) Poland received about €260 billion from the EU, mostly in EU Cohesion Policy and Common Agricultural Policy. We paid about €90 billion in member-state contributions, so our net gain is €170 billion. It is about 16% of our current GDP, divided by 20 years gives around 0.8% of GDP every year. A nice money, for sure - every little helps - but to say that Polish success is the result of this 0.8% would be to overlook the remaining 99.2%. :)


I am stealing this phrase to use it in my future discussions with Ukrainians.

If it's so insignificant, decline it and never let them blackmail you into compliance with their idiotic migrant and other rules.

Oh, I would. Right away.

There is no such thing as free money - there are always strings attached. Wealth is built by hard work, thrift and discipline, not by handouts. Polish politicians, however, are much more easily bribed than I am. Alas.

Yes we all have a little chip on our shoulder, hehe. On our left shoulder!


I wouldn't say it's "easy". Maybe like for a Prussian to understand a Bavarian at the beginning of the 20th century.

Only 60-70% of the words are the same. The others are borrowed from Polish and other languages, and usually don't make sense to a Russian unless he reads a lot.

Pronunciation-wise there's a huge difference, more than the lexical gap. Ukrainians make a bunch of sounds we don't make, or that sound funny to us.

Also the understanding works differently in either direction. 100% of Ukrainians understand Russian, but maybe only 50-60% of Russians may be able to follow a Ukrainian conversation.

Maybe it's the same in Germany? Where 100% of Bavarians can readily understand Northerners, but only 50-60% of Northerners can easily understand Bavarians?

Not the first putin loyalist to compare Ukraine to Bavaria.... not today, Ivan.

Speak for yourself.

Mine is not that little.

Super interesting, thanks!

But in Germany it's abit different, I think....we all have our high-German that we learn (at the latest) in school and all national media use, so that's the version of German that connects all of us...if not....well...we have so many dialects alone in Germany understanding would be hard till in some cases impossible. And then there are the non Germany-versions of German....like austrian or swyzer-Dütsch...like another language, heh:)

So I would see Ukrainian also as a dialect of Russian....there surely is some kind of high-Russian all can understand and agree on?

So Austria then, or Switzerland?

This is the "Great Russian Chauvinist" (as Lenin would call it), or "Imperialist/Nationalist" position (as modern Ukrainians would call it).

Historically (in Imperial times), the Russian "folk" was divided into three groups. Great Russians (current Russians), Little Russians (current Ukrainians), and White Russians (Belarus).

The Ukrainian language was called the "Little Russian dialect", or "Malorosskiy Dialekt". It is actually spoken in a wider area than just modern Ukraine. People also speak a slightly more archaic version of it on the Russian side of the border. In the Belgorod, Kursk, Rostov, Krasnodar regions.

So the "High Russian" was called "Great Russian". It was the main language of USSR-level television, radio, film, etc. So, in this way everyone knew it too like High German.

Wow....such a huge empire and still mainly only three dialects....in Germany it often sounds as if every village has their own language! :) Without some "high"-lingua there would be no Germany, more like a Tower of Babel....

That reminds me...

Hey, Polaks, send a delegation to A and S to find out how they deal with Russia's plans to invade Western Europe.

You know that neither is protected by A5 and a quick phone call to the DC. Fvcking amazing...

Damn it, I just realised that €170 billion divided by 40 million Poles is about 4200 euro... divided by 20 years is 212,5 euros!
So, every Pole got about 213 euros a year, for 20 years from the EU. That's about 18 euros a month!!!

18 f*cking hard-cash euros a month - that would be enough to pay for using PF! ($20 seems to be an average contribution).

Hmm... maybe those Ukrainians are right. Maybe it was the EU money that made us so stinking rich today! :)

...the curse of Europe...See Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania...What a joke.

On the other hand ...Cook County and DuPage county...bad example, Novi...


Then tell the EU to shove it and be proud and independent.

Be realistic, Torqi....that's no rent for polish folks, that was the needed millions/billions to build up infrastructure and to bring the industry up to standard, even sweeten the deal for investors to build up new fabrics and such....

We had the same happening in East-Germany and we are still yet not done! And it all costs a fortune....with EU-support that is much better and easier done than without!

No no, there are dozens of dialects. I meant the official three groups within the Russian "family" of peoples.

But Russian dialects are really tame in comparison to English or German ones. Everybody can easily understand each other.

The three main dialects within "Great Russian" Russian, are: (1) Northern, (2) Central, and (3) Southern. Then there are many smaller subdialects: Siberian, Pomorian, Central Asian, Baltic, Caucasus.

The literary and tv broadcast "Golden Standard" of Russian is the Moscow dialect (with some St. Petersburg influence). A lot of people actually find it quite harsh on the ear, or even annoying. Moscow people make high pitched sounds like 16 year old girls, and stretch their "As" to infinity.

The most even sounding Russian, is to my ear at least - the Uralic variety.

Really interesting....nobody in Germany would call the Berliner dialect in any way "golden"!!! 😂 Its not high-German either...

#278


Sure, I know that. But still - that's about 20 bucks a month per capita, whilst Polish GDP is $26,810 (nominal) and $55,190 (PPP).

Don't get me wrong, BB, the money was very useful, especially in the first phase of the transformation; but the way Poland looks today is the result of millions of Poles working their arses off in two (sometimes three) jobs, doing overtime, creating their businesses, going abroad and sending money home, saving, investing and building a better and richer Poland for our children. That's why it annoys me when somebody (not only Ukrainians) makes it sound like Poland got rich only because EU flooded us with money.

....and understandably so....but that's what we will hear (East-Germans too) for a long time to come....especially the thing about "ungratefulness" when we don't do or say what is expected of us...*shrugs*

But....I bet you....once Poland will have to chip in for the re-building of Ukraine Poles will talk the exact same about the Ukrainians as the Westerners talk now about the East...it seems to be human thing!

In America, the broadcast standard - also known as General American English - is Mid-Western in origin.

All the people on CNN and Fox News talk like they are from Chicago or somewhere in Ohio.

It has practically no "accent", or no "regional" identifiers like a New York or Texan accent would have.

Neutral, sterile, clean.

You're right, as usual, BB. :)

This is the language a TV news program should have.

...except if one is black or a Karen...Then every other noun is augmented with "fvcking"...including "my fvcking kids" - a direct quote...from multiple sources...some intoxicated...

You are right - it's universal.

In America, Southerners still hate Northerners. The Middle hates the Coasts, and it all revolves around "who owes who".

The poorer, rural regions feel they "feed" coastal America. The gun loving South, feels they protect the effeminate North, by enlisting in the military disproportionately or actually dealing with the waves of migrants that Northerners can only read about.

In the same way Ukraine expects things from Poland and Czechia for defending them, American Southerners feel they are owed recognition for being hardline on national security and immigration.

Southern Italy hates Northern Italy - for purported abandonment and arrogance. Poland B hates Poland A - for the same reasons. East Germans hate West Germans. Northern Chinese hate Southern Chinese.

People have some deep sensor inside their ass which measures the "fairness" of things.

That hate comes with a disclaimer...

I hate X until I meet X.

For example: I hate migrants until I meet one as he is cutting my grass or unclogging my sink. Last time, I gave him 20.

Yeah...thats us....the humans! Take us or leave us, heh:)