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Is there anything Poland won't do for money? "Wolf's Lair" - up for rent"


FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
20 Jan 2012 #31
Europeans are so funny sometimes. They think money coming from the government magically appears out of thin air and tend to forget where half their paycheck goes every month.

Ok, snide remarks aside, I'm just going to say that 1.3 million tourists spend a lot of money and Polish business owners benefit from this and then they pay taxes and that goes to.........TADA!, "The Polish State."

So basically, you pay for Auschwitz. Money well spent, they should keep the place open forever to remind the world what those fukcers did but let's not deny how much money it generates.
Bzibzioh
20 Jan 2012 #32
I've never seen any of the people from there that I have worked with at any of the Jewish events I've been to.

I'm shocked: such an expert on anything Jewish-related in Poland, as you like to present yourself over here, lacking such a key information!!

But then again ... not really.

We were talking about Auschwitz. I don't know the status of Majdanek. Trying to change the focus is not helping to move the discussion along.
pam
20 Jan 2012 #33
you got that in one harry. no way would i be interested in going to see the wollfs lair, but it is still is an important part of history and i think it should be preserved. just feel slightly annoyed that other important sites are allowed to go to rack and ruin. i am talking about stalag 8b, lambinowice/lamsdorf. this was the biggest pow camp in poland. have personal reasons for wanting to find out more. there is hardly anything left of it, and am frankly surprised poland didnt try to preserve it. wolfs lair obviously more interesting i suppose...:(
Harry
20 Jan 2012 #34
I'm shocked: such an expert on anything Jewish-related in Poland, as you like to present yourself over here, lacking such a key information!!

Or, leaving aside your personal comments, it could be that the people who supervise Auschwitz are not Jews, or at least not all of them.

Actually, we are talking about "Is there anything Poland won't do for money?", so I'd say that selling ground which was a sub-camp of Majdanek for the development of a shopping mall is pretty much on topic (and a decision which I can see both sides for, although I personally support the building of the mall, but it would have been nice if the memorial plaque had been there when it opened and not a year or so later).
Bzibzioh
20 Jan 2012 #35
there is hardly anything left of it, and am frankly surprised poland didnt try to preserve it.

It's kinda catch 22; if Poland preserves a former Nazi camp and tourists are coming to see it - bad Poland is profiting from it. If the former camp is let alone - bad Poland didn't try to preserve it.

Who said foreigners aren't funny.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
20 Jan 2012 #36
Actually the germans have turned hitler's former bunker (well, the site) into a tourist attraction

Oh yes, the famous car park for the 1985-era East German flats. A tourist attraction, yes - so much that every time I've taken someone there, no-one else is around. There's a simple information board, and absolutely nothing on the ground to show that there are still the remains of the bunker underneath.

Or are you talking about the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe, which is nearby, but not on the site?
isthatu2 4 | 2,704
20 Jan 2012 #37
When youve done blowing up the wolfs lair complex make sure to blow the beejeesus out of Malbork castle too as for countless decades that blot on the landscape was used as a base to terrorise and murder Poles from........
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
20 Jan 2012 #38
Who would rent the place? I am surprised it is not some kind of museum already.
Oh, and Auschwitz like Disney World? Never in your wildest dreams. It's obvious who has never been to Disney World to make such a comparison!
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
20 Jan 2012 #39
We were talking about Auschwitz. I don't know the status of Majdanek

Indeed and we both know (unlike some posters from further afield) that those two places are near towns, main roads and (sadly) railway lines. whereas the Wolfschanze is deep in the forest in a deliberately inaccessible place, and doesn't have the poignancy of those other places

and therefore less likely to attract funding. Kętrzyn/Rastenberg is an important military site (from the Napoleonic wars too) but to keep the crumbling bunker complex open needs money that is not being generated from the few visitors who go there now.

Who would rent the place? I am surprised it is not some kind of museum already.

It is open to the public already, however the cost of conserving the ruins as any kind of workable (and safe) museum is beyond the resources of the local forestry commission. Hence the search for an organisation to run it.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
20 Jan 2012 #40
Oh, and Auschwitz like Disney World? Never in your wildest dreams. It's obvious who has never been to Disney World to make such a comparison!

For someone who is as passionate about Polish history as Harry is, it's easy to see why he made the comparison.

Perhaps reading his post properly would help?
Harry
20 Jan 2012 #41
money that is not being generated from the few visitors who go there now

Given that 180,000 people currently visit the site and pay an average of 10zl each (assuming that there is an equal split between full and reduced price) and let's say they come four in a car, so 45,000 cars at 8zl each, the site is currently generating about 2,16,000zl income each year, plus whatever they get from the on-site restaurant, hotel, campsite and concession stands.

So why is everybody getting so worked up about a proposal that with increase income by less than 25% (the owners are looking for rent of $130,000? per annum)?
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
20 Jan 2012 #42
180,000 people currently visit the site and pay an average of 10zl each

Bloody Nora. I gathered that the proposal was about paying for maintainance and conservation. Now it looks increasingly like the typical Poland B public sector story. Announce a tender and bidding process because there has to be one, but in fact the person who will win has already been decided and the 'profit share' already agreed.
Harry
20 Jan 2012 #43
I gathered that the proposal was about paying for maintainance and conservation.

Jon: they are bastard huge slabs of concrete (up to 7 metres thick), they don't exactly need much maintainance, or conservation! The work basically consists of keeping the grass cut (in the places where it grows), stopping the ice on the paths from getting too lethal (but the ice inside the bunkers is another matter) and operating the gate.

You cynic!
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
20 Jan 2012 #44
You cynic!

I remember dropping off a tender bid to the Polish Army (back in T*rg*t days) and being surprised to learn that it was a bid for work that had already been done. With the k*ckb*ck already having been divvied out among the appropriate 'officers'.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
20 Jan 2012 #45
I don't get it, I really don't.

Majority does get, so go figure who's the odd one.

So what "Poland" should do ? Finance all the trips, inlcuding hotels, food etc. ? Shut down the museum ? How Poland and its citizens should stop profiting from Auschwitz ? I'm waiting for your proposal and If It makes sens I will happily do everything I can to implement it.
Harry
20 Jan 2012 #46
" So what "Poland" should do ? Finance all the trips, inlcuding hotels, food etc. ? Shut down the museum ? How Poland and its citizens should stop profiting from Auschwitz ? I'm waiting for your proposal and If It makes sens I will happily do everything I can to implement it."

They could transfer ownership of the site to the country which owned it during the time that the nazis ran it.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
20 Jan 2012 #47
They could transfer ownership of the site to the country which owned it during the time that the nazis ran it

That would make a lot of sense.

Stopping pointlessly moaning would be a good place to start.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
20 Jan 2012 #48
Stopping pointlessly moaning would be a good place to start.

Please explain.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
20 Jan 2012 #49
So I wonder where your dislike of Kaczysnski's government come from?
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
20 Jan 2012 #50
How Poland and its citizens should stop profiting from Auschwitz ?

Who said anything about "stop profiting"?

see quote #31.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
20 Jan 2012 #51
Same place as everyone else's really.
OP smurf 39 | 1,981
20 Jan 2012 #52
Majority

the majority like Coldplay & U2, doesn't mean they're any right :P
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
20 Jan 2012 #53
Since it is in Poland the Polish state should make money off of any museums. Why should Germany be allowed to make a dime off it? Besides, there's a camp in Germany open to visitors, KZ Dachau. Would anyone suggest someone besides the Germans run it?
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
20 Jan 2012 #54
the majority like Coldplay & U2, doesn't mean they're any right :P

Ugh.

Polish state should make money off of any museums.

If anything money goes into rather than comes out of museums.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
20 Jan 2012 #55
Who said anything about "stop profiting"?

Hmm... So why did you mention the whole "profiting from Auschwitz visitors" thing ? I got the impression that you are very critical about it. Please make yourself clear then.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
20 Jan 2012 #56
Hmm... So why did you mention the whole "profiting from Auschwitz visitors" thing ?

I've explained myself thoroughly in this thread. Go back and read it and let me know if you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
20 Jan 2012 #57
So I wonder where your dislike of Kaczysnski's government come from?

The fact that many PiS-supporting people are behind such things should tell you the story.

Also ask yourself who the State Forestry Service supports politically. It ain't PO.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
21 Jan 2012 #58
Dear Sir, please explain...

1. Why did you mention "Poland profiting from Auschwitz visitors" in this thread ?
2. What's your opinion on "Poland profiting from Auschwitz visitors" ? Is it something wrong ? Y/N ?
3. If you think it's wrong, then please tell me how It should be stopped.

I hope to hear soon from you !
pawian 176 | 14,299
6 Sep 2020 #59
why does Poland want to restore his old War Lair? I really cannot understand it,

Obviously for commercial reasons, simple. Why not??

Check their site for tourists
wolfsschanze.pl/en/

You didn't see the German's turning Hitler's bunker into an attraction

That`s a different case.


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