Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 20

We wouldn't. We have to invest more into our own military industry. It's not what it used to be in terms of sheer volume of production, but still we have some quality products on par with anything else produced in the world...



... Europe in general has so much quality in our military industries--French, German, Swedish and others--that we should be able to do without imports from the US (and I believe we will eventually achieve self-sufficiency in this area).

Sure, obviously, but the war ended 80 years ago and the Cold War 35 years ago and the US is still using Germany as a hub for its own affairs.


All those countries have rather warm feelings towards RuSSia by the EU/NATO standars. It's interesting that you keep picking such countries...
Also, there are already American military bases in Italy, I think one in Greece (two other were closed).

And this is what a Hungarian newspaper is writing about this matter - they don't seem to be enthusiastic:

hungarytoday.hu/reports-of-moving-u-s-troops-stationed-in-germany-to-hungary-unsubstantiated/

"The U.S. is currently deploying some 35,000 of its troops in Germany on bases like Ramstein and almost 40 others. Although some of them are scheduled for closure, it is unthinkable that the Trump administration would even consider moving them all to Hungary, or to some other European country for that matter."

Also, what I think you have to consider is the fact that the hosting countries have to, from what I understand, cover the costs related to the upkeep of an American bases on their soil. Not every country can afford this, I imagine. Greece and Hungary don't strike me as countries that could afford that many American bases. Turkey isn't doing great at the moment, I think. While Germany is the largest economy in Europe.


Who is saying that? Miloslaw? He's British with Polish roots living far away from RuSSia in the UK. He has no clue.


LOL *sigh* 🤦

They've got one of America's largest airbases at Incirlık. I'm not sure what the funding deal is though.

@Paulina
You are obviously unaware of Trumps stated goal to move most troops back to the US from Germany and around Europe. He made this a part of his campaign. As for paying for the US to be in any country, the payment is in providing the area for the base. They do not pay salaries of soldiers or other costs. other than some infrastructure. I had no idea a Hungarian paper wrote anything, my ideas are my thinking alone not based on any news reports. Trump makes deals, understanding this will allow you to understand what he is doing much better. With Ukraine, he can make a peace deal, or pull out. Either way the American people win. Thats his only responsibility.

In 2021 "South Korea agreed to increase the sum it pays to support about 28,500 U.S. troops on the peninsula by 13.9%, bringing expenditures to $1.03 billion this year. Japan this year will contribute $1.9 billion to maintain tens of thousands of U.S. service members there."

According to this article the building of an American military base would be mainly financed by Poland - it would cost 2 billion dollars (the article is from 2018):

money.pl/gospodarka/wiadomosci/artykul/jacek-sasin-amerykanska-baza-prezydent,71,0,2416711.html


From what I've read Poland pays for fuel, food and other services for all NATO troops stationing in our country (with fuel being the most costly) - including American and British troops.

And as for American troops in particular (this article is from 2020):

businessinsider.com.pl/wiadomosci/wojska-usa-w-polsce-polska-bedzie-placic-za-ich-stacjonowanie-500-mln-zl-rocznie/63ybmbs

My translation of a fragment of this article:

"The Ministry of Defence has disclosed that Poland agreed to provide Americans with free accommodation, food, fuel, storage and infrastructure maintenance. The yearly cost of the presence of American troops in Poland estimated by the Ministry of Defence is 500 mln PLN. For comparison, in 2019 we spent 469 mln PLN on Territorial Defence Forces and 382 mln on Polish Special Forces."

In your genius mind, what he wants is for Europe to pay its fair share. In other words, the parasitic relationship is over. Equal sharing of the burden is the new order. Thank you, President Trump.

Equal is not good enough.

Good enough is the US paying the same amount to defend Europe as Europe is paying to defend the US.

When the US is protecting Country X, Country X should pay ALL of the expenses plus 50% profit.

Before I forget - that dementia is really getting to me....fvck you, Euros. We don't need you for anything. Even our wines are better.

Currently there are a dozen thousand or so of American troops in Poland. At the end of 2024 the Polish army had 205 000 soldiers. As you can imagine - such small number of American soldiers isn't really "protecting" Poland in the military sense. From what I understand Polish governments have been advocating for some kind of American military presence on Polish soil (troops, bases, installations - anything), because they believe that RuSSia won't attack a country with American boots on the ground. American boots on the ground are supposed to demonstrate that the US is treating the alliance with the said country seriously and will respond if that country gets attacked. At least that's the theory (that made a bit more sense before Trump came to power - I don't know if it holds any water now).

So, as you can see, American presence is more symbolic/demonstrative/psychological than practical.


Profit from what? lol


Besides eggs ;D: 🥚🍳

m.economictimes.com/news/international/us/u-s-scrambles-for-eggs-donald-trump-asks-lithuania-for-supply-after-finland-and-denmark-say-no-internet-roasts-the-desperation-dubs-it-door-to-door-begging/articleshow/119301521.cms

Brilliance from the Romanian Andrei Caramitru on russia's fatal weakness.... it cannot exist as a normal country...

x.com/brave_romania/status/1902994362277016009

it couldn't modernize and collapse in 1914 and the Bolsheviks took over

stalin's brutal industrialization killed millions (the holodomor and purges were just part of it)

it survived WWII helped greatly by allies and still lost 20 million people

then had the largest industrial base in the world.... and collapsed after 45 years... (he doesn't mention it was kept from starving by western generosity)

it was in an enviable position just a few years ago, selling hydrocarbons with massive profits and very little effort but it's inability to transition to a modern social system meant that it invaded Ukraine (allowed by Europe in 2014) and then ramped things up in 2022 and its system is more dystopian and dysfunctional than ever as a handful of oligarchs grow richer and russian sheeple shoulder the burden and allow them.. as they are too cowardly and cowed to stand up for themselves.

General Richard Shirreff the former Deputy Supreme Commander Europe for NATO has written an article in The Daily Mail today that suggests that the West will be at war with Russia in about 2 years.
If this is the case, do you think Europe can survive?
Do you think we need America?

Who the fvck do you think we are? Your 911? Take care of your own mental disorders. The US has no conflicts with Russia.

Hey, Vlad, if you must, drop the first two on London and Brussels. Then, the third one on the ICC.

You really are a complete and utter azzhole!

I just cannot get my head around why you are so pro Russian.Please explain your logic, or lack of it.

I am pro your country. If Russia nuked London, they would remove all these damn mosques, Muslims, your moronic Parliament, and that useless king who doesn't have enough balls to say:

Hey, azzholes, what the fvck is the matter with you? Why are these hordes still coming? Don't have guns, morons?

Do you know his email address?

Who would say Brits would welcome Russians as liberators.

Rich, you are a genius.This is the best explanation ever: "It's the same amount Europe is paying to defend the US." Ingenious indeed. Can I use it from this point on?

There are plenty of eggs available, and prices just dropped nearly by half; eat your jealous heart out. Why would a shortage of any item make you happy? Sure, egg prices were high for a while, but not one time were the shelves empty. Shortage in our stores would be called plenty in your stores. The American consumer is selective and demanding.

The same kind of experts predicted the end of humanity due to climate warming. It should have happened twenty years ago; all of the Pacific islands should be underwater. Despite the predictions, all of the islands are surviving and even thriving. The moral is, think for yourself, ignore the experts as much as you can.

To them, if they pay half and we pay half to defend Europe, we are even.

In fairness to Euros, I hate them and the US MICC equally.

@Paulina
The US bases in Germany were built by US forces during and after the war at the US expense. At one point there were more than 200 bases. Most have been closed or turned over to German military. As for the expenses of setting up or maintaining bases, the host country should be responsible in my opinion. Having a good sized contingent of US military in your country is a deterant.

Putin knows where the base is in Rzezow. He probably has all the intel he needs to completely wipe it out. We all know thats where the vast majority of weapons from the US are coming from. Yet, no strikes on it. Clearly its a military target if there ever was one. Putin wont think about killing any US military in Poland. He knows that the reaction would be fast and devestating if he did. Thats the reason for Poland to build fort Trump, whether you like Trump or the US or not, it would be a very good thing for Poland to have.

What fort Trump?

We have been continuously hearing all about the US leaving Europe in the last couple of months, so what Fort Trump are you talking about?

Trump affirmed that he would keep troops the same level in Poland if not increased. We're his number one euro ***** squeeze

Do they speak Danish by any chance? lol, who cares about such petty issues? You must be Polish. lol
But you are right that the dig was nasty, Trump must have laid them by himself in a hurry. Good job! bahahabaah
Thanks for a laugh!
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Novi are you all right? You just told yourself off. Do you have a new set of medications? They seem to be working somewhat.
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We need to assess if it is worth it. /Torq we need some decent politicians who can count, not the idiots we have now. doing some shady business and choosing who will be Poland's Lord Protector.
How is this song - all we need is nukes?
lol!

Iron, you're a genius! I'm making this song the official anthem of Poland's Nuclear Forces...

🎵 All We Need Is Nukes (to the tune of All You Need Is Love)

There's nothing you can bomb that can't be bombed,
No place you can nuke that won't be gone,
No world you can wreck that won't be dust,
It's easy...

No leader too bold to press the code,
No city too big to overload,
No bunker too deep to take the blow,
Believe me...

(Chorus)
All we need is nukes... (ba-da-da-da-da!)
All we need is nukes... (ba-da-da-da-da!)
All we need is nukes, nukes...
Nukes are all we need.

There's nothing as strong as mushroom clouds,
No peace talk survives when bombs rain down,
No treaty too firm to burn to ash,
It's easy...

(Chorus - Repeat & Fade Out)
All we need is nukes... (ba-da-da-da-da!)
All we need is nukes... (ba-da-da-da-da!)
All we need is nukes, nukes...
Nukes are all we need.

mafketis just blew his load on reading more keyafabe
"President Donald Trump attended the final rounds of the 2024-25 NCAA wrestling championships in Philadelphia "

@Torq
When PiS regains control of the government, and they will eventually, they will build the biggest US base in Europe for Trump or JD if its him in office. The US, and Trump has said this publicly, will not abandon Poland. Trump wants to bring 100K US troops around the world back to the US. Why? Not because someone will invade, but the US Army Corp of Engineers, can do amazing things with able bodied men in very short periods of time is my thinking.


Better the devil you know than the devil you dont. Keeping in line with the US give Poland a lot more than US military on the ground. It also gives access to US technology, and intelligence. There is none better in the world.

Meanwhile the BBC reports that the limited cease fire being worked on should be complete in the next week or so as it regards infrastructure. Even though its not signed and complete, both Russia and Ukraine have not bombed or attacked energy infrasructure in the last 48 hours. I take that as a sign that things can be discussed piece by piece and agreements can be made.

Filthy NN war criminals have attacked Ukrainian civilians again overnight

Meanwhile this moronic loser Witkoff seems to legitimize the fake ass referenda in the regions claimed by the NNs (he couldn't even name them) and says Putler is a nice guy because he gave Golden Cow some crappy AI generated painting

The US will abandon Poland, just as quickly as it has abandoned Ukraine. The only thing we can do now is to develop our own strong deterrent to a north Nigerian attack.

It is not my point. I personally like the US.
However, I look at things from what is in Poland's interest perspective, both short and long term.
In such a perspective, all those issues need to be carefully assessed and calculated, as they say, the devil is in detail.

I think I need to add somethings here.
As I like the US I understand them. Whether they will have a permanent base in Poland or not remains to be seen. Even if there going to be one, it doesn't give a long-term projection of power effect because if the US comes to the conclusion that is more feasible to have an agreement with Russia and Germany. The US will roll the carpet up faster than a knife fight in a phone booth.

Apparently Vladimir Surkov gave an interview in France (if you don't know who Surkov is, then you're pig ignorant about russia and should guard a dignified silence).

lexpress.fr/monde/europe/exclusive-vladislav-sourkov-the-kremlins-wizard-russia-will-expand-in-all-directions-as-far-as-god-WWIE5OJMPVHJ5KTTAHNLE4WPME/

Your assignment is to read and understand what he said.