Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 19

Europe has spent as much money supporting Ukraine as the US has

@cms neuf
And yet for the last 30 years the majority of Europe has not met its NATO spending commitments. The spending of money has brought the war to a standstill while getting a generation of men killed. Not exactly a success story.

But for the Ukrainians a standstill is better than defeat and enslavement

The generation of men who have been killed are mostly from North Nigeria. The invaders. Who cares about trhen ? It's tragic but not even their own parents who would willingly swap them for some home improvements and a bag of frozen pelmeni

And 35 years of peace and freedom for Eastern Europe is very much a success story

You two sound like sugar daddies arguing over a high end Ukrainian escort.. haha

And you sound like a lost puppy yipping with your diminishments.
That was an excellent exchange by PolAm and cms until you interrupted comedic ha ha.
Get lost until you have something positive On - Topic to contribute.

Dietmar Pichler is an Austrian who's covered russian aggression against Ukraine in detail for years.

Here is a quick run down of facts. If you wish to dispute them please have sources ready. No one is interested in the 785th repititon of the RT myths.

x.com/DietmarPichler1/status/1889772734269227083

I have a question.

The potential size of a military contingent that Europe could send to Ukraine to oversee a possible ceasefire is estimated at 25,000 to 30,000 troops.
My question is: "So the EU sends in 30,000 boots on the ground in Ukraine and the cease fire doesn't hold, jus what in the hell are those 30,000 EU soldiers going to do about it besides die ?"
Does anyone know ?

The EU is like a big chicken, it will never happen. They dont want to even pay for their own defence.

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....it will become the fastest military trainingscamp since before WWII.

Come to speak of.....I like history and prefer eyewitness reports....now I'm about to read old copies from articles and essays and reports from the last century Thirties and Forties (compiled Reader's Digests issues), and the similiarities to today are striking.

Till up to 1938, even with Hitler already proving his aggression, the still free West was mostly in denial, asking, doubting, in-fighting, with their military weak and in shambles, untrained, In the US it was even discussed how much GB should be supported in the worst case....that changed only in 1939...

Maybe the democratic countries NEED to get punched badly first...but the enemy should never underestimate them because of that, there is a lesson innit somewhere.

If the US pushes too hard then the Chinese would be laughing.
Also, Russia and Europe came easily to have an agreement that would kick the Yankee's asses from Europe for good.
The price would be the Baltic and Poland which would suit Berlin and Paris just fine.
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they can always wave LGBT flags.

Bottom line: Euros, get the fvck out of the way for the adults to end this totally avoidable nonsense.

I know what's coming from you...He said he would end it in 24 hours...He lied...as always...

Now the irony: Soon, two Hitlers will meet and shake hands-one from America and the other from Russia.

If it does, their rifles will be from Toys R Us.

Are you some kind of prophet....or what?

The best solution would be to create a cadre of neutral and unbiased supranational men who identify as Europeans first and foremost. Once their national affections and identities have been surgically removed, they'll be given horsehair whisks as a sign of their rank and they will speak euro-English in high-pitched voices as they shuffle through the inner courtyards of the Berlaymont awaiting orders from empress dowager von der Leyen.

We'll call them EUnuchs.

...and a genius...Just look at my posts, including Z-P=0...

At the cost of the United States funding NATO and protecting Europe. Europe would still be goose stepping if not for the US and US lend lease to Russia. All this tough talk if fvcking hilarious.

Ukraine needs a minimum of 150K peace keeping forces. How many volunteers are we getting from PF?

Again a ridiculous exaggeration - US troops have been less than a quarter of peacekeeping missions in Bosnia, Kosovo and Cyprus. All major European countries have contributed - including North Nigeria.

I don't know how many American forces are in Europe now but maybe 50.000 in Germany and another 50.000 in other countries.

One of the weirdest things today was Rubio in his first sentence saying only Trump could make this possible. He wasn't talking about the USA. His underlings give him Ceausescu levels of sycophancy - really disturbing to see from grown men

Indeed the US are a known charity, which everybody milks till they are dry. They are known for giveaway away stuff for free. They don't want, take or expect anything in return.
OK PolAM time for you to wake up, was it a nice dream?
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Do you aim to form a geriatric unit?

The US doesn't need any "forces" to protect Europe since Europe welcomes the invaders.

That's where "fvck off" fits so well...

No, Russia is not a threat to Europe. Euros are.


Seniors can operate drones, too.

Way too many.

Bosnia, Kosovo and Cyprus are your problem.

Peacekeeping missions are total BS without the end point. They go under "we have to do something", no matter how stupid and endless.

So or so we need to get some training!

If Europe is to stand on its own feet militarily (as is so rightly demanded) what's better than to start with a european peacekeeping army???

I thought there would be more cheering than mocking.....

The numbers are all over the place. I also saw 100,000 and 200,000 being cited.

The problem is that nobody wants to send anyone except for the sneaky Brits.

The Brits have no army (74,000 personnel), but think that they can "lead by example". Just like with the Challenger tanks. Global Britain and all that....

They think that if they send 3,000-5,000 men, this will be sufficient to embarrass the Germans and French into action. Somebody else will bear most of the burden, but the British will be able to claim most of the credit. Very sneaky - and their traditional modus operandi.

Macron gathered everyone in Paris over the last few days, and Starmer was the only one that said he's ready to send anyone. Italy, Spain, Germany, and France all balked at the idea of sending troops.

Poland has completely ruled out sending troops.

Maybe Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania will supplement the British component? We'll call it BaltoBrit!


I honestly don't think the Kremlin has any designs on Poland. The Baltics maybe, but a very distant "maybe" at that.

In the negotiations around Ukraine, Putin is demanding from Trump that NATO rollback its Eastern deployments. Putin wants NATO forces to be stationed no further than where they were stationed during 1991 - that is, in Western Germany. I think if that is granted, Poland stops being a strategic concern.

If Poland is militarily not a threat, then I don't think there's any appetite to attempt to control it. Russians may be divided on the subject of whether or not Ukrainians hate us, but I think all Russians can agree that Poland hates us very much. An occupation of Poland would be a nightmare without end. An endless pit for money and lives.

I'll try to do my usual list:

1) Poland and Russia do not complement each other economically, in the same way Ukraine and Russia do.

2) Poland has no Russian speakers.

3) Poland has very few Orthodox Christians.

4) Poland, at this point in time, is actually a large and important component of the EU common market. The reaction to an invasion of Poland, might be as different as it was in comparison to the Anschluss or Munich Compromise. In other words, Poland is big enough, that Europe may finally wake from its sleep - which is not something Russia is interested in.

In the simplest terms, if we were to be granted Poland one day - magically - we would not know what to do with it. This is different from Ukraine, where we know exactly what we want to do, and how we want to do it. Past Russian rulers were also similarly confused with what to do with Poland. Usually, the default option was to carve out a special playground for Poland, with its own unique rules - while making sure that none of that Polishness can leak back into Russia.

Interesting side info....even in Chancellor Scholz' own Party, the SPD, leading voices disagree with him and would very well agree to a peacekeeping mission.

And a most recent poll found out that a thin majority of the Germans would agree too....and Scholz will be only Chancellor till next sunday!

tagesspiegel.de/politik/umfrage-zu-deutschen-soldaten-in-der-ukraine-knappe-mehrheit-befurwortet-beteiligung-an-friedenstruppe-13223413.html

NATO or no NATO, nobody will be "granted Poland".

Anyway a serious question for Pol Ams - do any of those aging old folk down the Red Apple buffet care about Polish security or is all andient history and they are more interested in the price of eggs / separate bathrooms stuff ?

Here's what the FT reported him as saying in Paris:

In blunt remarks following the summit, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz called a discussion about troop deployments "highly inappropriate" given the war was still being waged.

"The discussion is completely premature, and it is the wrong time to have it," said Scholz, who faces nationwide elections on Sunday and has long been cautious about the question of sending soldiers to Ukraine.

He said he was "a little irritated" by the discussion, calling it "an incomprehensible debate at the wrong time and about the wrong topic".

Seems like he thinks this entire discussion is a bullsh*t exercise.

The British, and stupid Balts, give no account to how expensive such an adventure would be. That is, if we consider a proper peacekeeping force of approx. 200,000 men in size, rather than the joke figures of 20-30,000.

200,000 is slightly less than two times larger than France's army (118,000). It is twice as large as the Italian Army (97,000). It is three times larger than the British Army (74,000), and similarly larger in comparison to the German Heer (63,000).

Without America, the costs of equipping and maintaining these people in the field, rotating them out for rest (which means you really need 400,000 men), and other associated costs - will quickly mean that this exercise is more expensive than either Afghanistan or Iraq.

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Oh also, I forgot - today Putin said that European peacekeepers in Ukraine are a dealbreaker. So there's that.

Yeah....well.....I better refrain from posting my personal opinion about this man....


...and even more, much more.....there will be costs coming up for Europe which will be today still unthinkable!

The price to stay/become a player is really high! Or else it will be the side table and back to bootlicking...

They would only need such a large 200.000 force if one of the parties had bad intentions and wanted to test the ceasefire as quickly as possible

I mock US peacekeeping BS with equal passion.

If A is a threat to our friend B, help B kill all As.

We should join Israelis in Gaza, check every male for GSR, ask him if Israel has a right to exist and shoot him on the spot if the test is positive and the answer is wrong.

No peacekeeping. Problem solved.

Heh:) One can dream....:)

I should be the Ultimate Ruler of the Universe.

In six months, Europe would be all white. No, nobody would die...

Yes, I would think that would be a pretty likely scenario.

The previous "ceasefire", lasting from 2015-2022 was violated quite literally several thousand times.

The OSCE observers had their cars shot up, their drones downed, and had all sorts of other sh*t happen to them.

I'd say ownership of the violations was 50/50, between the Ukrainians and the DNR/LNR.

So long as it is a "ceasefire", and not a conclusive peace agreement - then the war can start up again at the smallest instigation.

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All this, brings up the question of what's gonna happen when some peacekeeper inevitably gets killed?

I bet some French soldier will get killed, nobody will really bother with the details, and some new sanctions will be imposed on Russia. Ukraine will make up daily stories about big bad Russians abusing peacekeepers somewhere, to try and get the war restarted.