Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 19

Then you don't need nukes.

What makes you think the russian government cares about the lives of 10,000 or 100,000 thousand soldiers?

You don't know that.

AfD can take over in Germany one day and they can go back to their old untermenschen ideas. Somebody worse than Putin can rule in Russia one day (and he might very well cooperate with AfD too!). We don't know what might happen.


I meant that such forces would be largely insufficient to threaten Poland, so there would be no need to use nuclear weapons. Later in the same post I explained that I meant 1939-like scenario.

I have got an idea. The US should get rid of all its nukes - I'm sure you will support such a great idea. You don't want to die.

It should. The US didn't use nukes once in self-defense.

In fact, after 1946, the US lost all wars and didn't use its nukes. It lost 100,000+ men and still didn't use nukes.

So the question is: Under what circumstances would the US use its nukes?

Dialing down...The US never used its tanks and artillery in self-defense, either...Or NATO with that idiotic A5.

It's all for show and to make US globalist crime syndicate happy and prosperous.

Most Ukrainians abroad won't come home - unity minister
Only 30% of those who fled the country are "seriously" considering returning home, Aleksey Chernyshov has said

Me, a genius again...That's what I said years ago...

Memo to touchy-feely Poles: By accepting U refugees, you prolonged the war, helped kill 500,000 and disable 1 million.

As if that was not enough, by acting like dumb chicks, you helped destroy Ukraine.

No, they are not coming back, Russia will keep at least 20% of the land and 90% of the minerals, Ukraine is in debt and owned by BlackRock, German economy is fvcked, Biden got dumped, and Russians hate you...

Good job, guys...But I understand that feelings and pathos are so much more fun that logic and facts since nobody made a good movie about logic and facts.

Whats interesting here is that the war looks to be ending, and still people are not satisfied with how it is ending. While its more important for Ukraine to survive and rebuild, people are complaining about the details because it does not mean the US picking up the tab for these things. The EU is mad because Trump said FO to them and their globalist agenda.

I find it very funny that Starmer is going to kiss the ring today. The UK attempting to assert itself politicaly to the US is akin to a field mouse telling a tiger what to eat. Z flying into DC and siging a deal is a message from Trump to either play ball the US way or you are not in the game at all. Putin will do some kind of deal with Trump as well, and dont be surprised if in four years Russia has told China to FO.

Have you considered a career in diplomacy?

Why would they?


No 'attempting', "politically" has a double l, and either trumpet wants to keep the 1.5 trillion in exports that his country gets, or he and the workers/investors of his country don't mind losing most of them.

@mafketis
Diplomacy is only suited for people who dont like to get things done. Leadership is making decisions, right or wrong and sticking with them. Lack of leadership is what has allowed this war to go on for three years.

You think Ukraine should have surrendered ?

I presume you are now going to repeat lies about Turkish negotiations in 2022 (actually a North Nigerian ultimatum)

I keep asking why he thinks that it's Ukraine that's prolonging the war and I haven't gotten an answer....

Today is Thursday. Tomorrow is Friday - the day Zelensky had been expected in Washington D.C. to sign the minerals "deal".

Yesterday, Trump said: "I hear Zelensky's coming on Friday, it's certainly okay with me if he wants to."

I imagine how Zelensky's stomach turns when viewing these reports. He's not only being humiliated personally, but at the same time is taking one in the ass for the entirety of Ukraine.

The background to this, had been reported by the Times. Initially Trump didn't want to see Zelensky, but then Macron convinced him it was important to meet him. This is perhaps why Trump acted as if he couldn't care less if Zelensky arrives.

However, we can guess at how Trump really feels by continuing on to the end of that quote: "Yeah, someone mentioned he's going to fly half way across the world to sign this deal. I guess we'll see...whatever."

For Trump all of politics is one big BDSM show. Humiliating people, and humiliating people cruelly is the thing that most arouses him. Mafketis usually claims this is the Kremlin's favorite thing to do, but here we have an American president that could give Putin some lessons.

When you realize that Donald Trump's best buddy (until he died of HIV), was the living demon Roy Cohn - everything starts to make a lot more sense.

May I ask a question? When did you start to dislike Trump that much? That is quite a new development, isn't it? Or did I miss something...

(Especially with watching that bromance between Trump and Putin....kinda....)

Ehh probably around 2011-12. Before then I only knew him as the host of the Apprentice on NBC, and had maybe been to his Atlantic City casino once.

Nevertheless, if you live in New York (I've been here off and on for 17 years or so), Trump is part of the local lore. For people from the former USSR especially.

My involvement came from a legal angle. I was doing work on a fraud case, having to do with a prominent ex-Soviet banker, that was being heard in the high courts in London. At the time, it had been the largest fraud case ever to go through London (something like $8B of depositors money stolen).

Well, there it emerged that a good deal of the money that was stolen, was parked in Trump properties in SoHo and on Columbus Circle.

So, my initial distaste toward Trump grew out of the fact that he was hanging out with some real pieces of sh*t.

Then, when he emerged to everyone's surprise as a primary candidate - I decided to take a closer look at him. Picked up some biographies (Tim O'Brian the best), and came away completely disgusted with the dude.

Suffice it to say, that if the guy took all the money that Fred Trump gave him, and just put into the S&P 500, he'd be twenty times richer now than what he had achieved through forty years of huckstering.

He's irresponsible, he's a liar, he's a cheat, and he's from Queens.

Heh:)

....nothing at all to do with Russia, Putin and/or Ukraine?

Most people are able to overlook irresponsibilty, lying and even cheating if the own tribe is seen as getting something out of it....usually....

Self-interest. That's why autocrats in e.g. Hungary, Israel and the USA now voted against condemning Russian aggression in the UN. That's exactly what Sikorski was talking about at the UN General Assembly recently...

youtube.com/watch?v=p4JFNtlxz9k&t=7s&ab_channel=Rados%C5%82awSikorski-kana%C5%82oficjalny

... only 8 minutes, well worth listening to.

All my personal antipathy towards the cult of banderism in Ukraine aside, it is evident that if Russia is indeed allowed to keep 20% of Ukrainian territories, then it means that you can invade a European country in the 21st century on the basis of denazifying it, conduct an all-out war (without declaring it, German WW2-style) and incorporate its lands. This, of course, means that we are throwing all the principles of international legal order into a trash bin. This also means that we all have to get nukes. ASAP.

....the big alternative, which might have a better chance of success, is the founding of a EUROPEAN TREATY ORGANIZATION....which has an "Article 5" for its members....and which has nukes!

ETO.....sounds good! :)

IMHO we wouldn't need to rebuild all from scratch....only cutting the non-europeans out and off (Trump is already doing the part for the US)....adjusting the paperwork and voila?

We could even keep English as I don't see polish officers giving their orders in German suddenly! 😎

Trump is very good for Russia, no doubt about it.

If he removes sanctions from us, I'll probably just shut up and keep my opinions to myself.

But also... he may be good for Russia now, but what about later?

Russia is a beneficiary of the "international rules based order". Lately, we've been making a big stink about how it's become rotten to the core, but in the end it serves to our interests.

Russian Security Council veto, IMF board seat, membership in the G8 and G20, and being able to work with Europe and America are important things.

If America later refuses to engage with Russia, because we were too cozy with Trump - who they are going to be trying to hang at that point, is this good for us?

If Europe gangs up with American Democrats to punish Russia for running wild during Trump - is that good for us in the long term? I think about these same things in regards to Israel.

Is it really to Israel's benefit the way in which Netanyahu demonstratively ignores Biden, waiting to do all his deals through Trump? Does Netanyahu think that the other half of America will forget how he behaved?

Using the power and the influence of the United States to settle our inter-Slavic squabbles is not a wise thing to do. Right now, we think we are using Trump to our ends. But this is not a game we control.

We must continue just as if Trump was not elected. The way we have been going the past three years, is the only right way. No need to get involved in America's civil wars, or leverage their help too much during Trump.

All the major countries need to have their own nukes though. If we want to rely on the Brits and the French for nuclear umbrella, then we're f*cked already from the very beginning.


I agree.


National armies must keep operational autonomy to respond more flexibly to any possible threat. In case of a major war there would be, of course, joint Staff of the allied forces for strategic command, but tactical operations would be conducted by national armies (Polish officers leading Polish soldiers, German officers the German ones etc.).

Totally agree....there will come a time after Trump and even after Putin, maybe sooner than we think, and then we have still live with all our neighbours, trying to rebuild relationships which were damaged.

We Germans can tell abit about that....


All so true...

Yes, especially if he stations American nuclear missiles in Ukraine to ensure access to Ukrainian natural resources.

Working with him is thankless.

In 2016-2020, he couldn't shut up about his USMCA trade deal, which replaced Clinton's NAFTA. It was supposed to fix all those ugly ways in which Canada and Mexico abused the United States. He drafted it, he marketed it, he signed it.

First thing he does after he is back in power? Tariff Canada and Mexico. They must feel like real idiots now.

How about North Korea? They must have got very excited that things will change? Trump had his wonderful Singapore summit, and then even crossed the DMZ. Where do things stand now? Nowhere. North Korea is fighting with Russia, against America's ally.

He said he was gonna build a wall, and stop the avalanche of migration. He had four years to do it. Now he comes back and pretends like his first term never existed. Awkward fact nobody wants to discuss - Obama deported more people than Trump.

China tariffs were supposed to bring American manufacturing back home! 8 years on, and still nobody wants to buy an American car, while China is only kept out of the US car market by 100% tariffs.

This guy is full of sh*t. Working with him is a waste of time, if we take his words seriously. Need to do our own thing, but pretend like we are listening.

There are no American nuclear missiles anywhere east of Germany, even in Poland a quarter of a century after we joined NATO, so there won't be any in Ukraine either. You are reading the entire situation wrong, Alien, but I don't blame you - it's all utterly messed up.

But we should, especially in cases where he is just right...where he puts the finger in an open wound and pushes!

Europe isn't in a good place, Trumps open words (and plans) are forcing us to act at last....something which we could successfully avoid amidst all the super polite blah blah from all sides during the last decades.

Not all should be ignored, nor can be....

When he annexes Greenland and Panama, creates peace between Russia and Ukraine, and engineers the collapse of China - we can talk.

Actually that's too much. How about if he manages to slash the US federal deficit by 20% - by the end of his term - I will burn my Russian passport, and go on a crawling pilgrimage from NY to DC.

Aid is a bad joke.

@mafketis
@cms neuf
You two are some of the dumbest leftards on PF.

Ukraine should have made a peace deal when it was on the table before Boris blew it up. Ukraine isnt prolonging the war, NATO and the US did to suit its own purposes. Ukraine is a backwater hillbilly nation that no one in the US needs or cares about. Only the EU cares and only to the extent that it is a buffer country from Russia.

@Bobko
Trump today is not the Trump of old. He owes no favors, and is a lame duck who cant get re-elected. He will tear down things rather than negotiate. And frankly thats whats needed. The establishment must be put on the firing line. Imagine a world where Russia and the US actually worked together and respected each other. Europe safe and the only enemies are in the middle east, china and africa. Makes for a much differne outlook on life.

Oh yeah....the next few years he has the whole attention of the world, for sure! So many promises (and threats)! :)

... and Canada. Don't forget Canada.


At least they didn't do a 180 degrees turn from "All help for Ukraine! Happy Gulag Russian b*tches!" to "Ukraine is a hillbilly nation that no one in the US needs or cares about". Besides, Maf and Cms may be wrong on some matters but they are definitely not dumb.