Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 18

I'm calm. I'm already used to your childish behaviour :)


Of course not. It isn't enough to state that some nation is "genocidal" just like what ISIS did isn't enough to state that Arabs are the spawns of Satan :)


That's your opinion. Poland seems to think otherwise.


If you don't know this after all those years on PF then I can't help you lol

Poland doesn't think. What matters are the opinion of it citizens and they can change their mind.
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It was a rhetorical question. Since I've been on PF for so many years I expect it will go over your head. You, airhead, don't pretend to be smart.
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Why women are sexist when they have no arguments? do you realize that is an old female sexist comeback?

it crossed my mind but then the benefits are promising.

That's what I meant - citizens and the country's lawmakers. And it doesn't look like they've changed their mind about this law :)


Don't waste my time then.


Since I've been on PF for so many years I expect that you will support anyone who's arguing with me :))) And I don't have to pretend that I'm smart - I am smart :]


No, it isn't any "old female sexist comeback" lol Anyone can behave in a childish way - both men and women. And don't generalise about women like that - it's sexist. Also, I have plenty of arguments :)

@Ironside, don't spam this thread with your personal vendetta against me.

That's a problem for individual governments to design and resource their systems for efficiency.

Issuing a series of proclamations will only throw up the glaring exceptions and dont work, as an exception we all know the story of the M.S. St. Louis and the fate of its passengers.

The zero tolerance approach to immigration proposed by some and displayed to great effect by several peoples around the world, notably on the Andaman Islands, is either a wet dream or an example of savagery by uncivilised people depending on their mood.

the problem is.... no government is doing that... they're just throwing their hands up in the air and letting people in without vetting them and the results are.... pretty terrible by any rational measure

Hey, stupid. you, personally, have a zero-tolerance approach to immigration. I am assuming that you have a door and that it is always locked.

If some scums broke in while you were away, you would do everything possible - both legal and illegal - to get their scummy asses out.

A sovereign country is exactly a copy of what I just described - except bigger...

Because, as the leftist dogma has it, "we are all equal" and "nobody is illegal".

Both are lies...I am better than a POS from Venezuela with "MS-13" tattoo on his low-IQ forehead.

I don't know about Barney - but many of us here opened our homes and our hearts to Ukrainian refugees fleeing the drunken invaders

Just because you are a mean minded bitter man don't assume everyone else is

You have a right to open whatever you own to the refugees.

You don't have a right to open what belongs to me.

Also, when you were opening your home to them, you knew two things:

1. One day soon they will leave your home.

2. Somebody else will pay their bills.

That high moral ground is lovely when 1 and 2 are true.

I paid "their bills"

Maybe one day someone will do the same for me

Karma always works (unfortunately for the North Nigerians)

You paid nothing.

Show me the invoice or a monthly bill with "For Refugees" on it.

What you pay in taxes doesn't count unless your taxes went up by an increment equal to that monthly bill you never received.

BTW, I resent deeply morons like you who think that others are morons, too. Don't try selling this kind of crap to me anymore.

So, majority of soldiers of Steppe front was steppen wolves? ;) It became Second Ukrainian Front later, of course, once fights moved westward, to territory of ukrainian SSR.

First Ukrainian Front was created 20.10.1943 by reorganisation of former Voronezh front, and after 1945 became Central Group of Soviet Army, basing in central Russia.

So, your stupid note about "majority of ukrainians" is laughable.

Er...I went to Biedra and Rossmann and Sinsay and got the things they needed

Seems to be outside your comprehension

:)))

That is not my "note" :) It's your "stupid note" that says so :))) To be more precise - according to a document prepared for the internal use of the Ministry of Defense of the Soviet Union on the 1st January of 1945 majority of privates in the 60th Army, which liberated Auschwitz-Birkenau, were Ukrainians. And Auschwitz-Birkenau was liberated on January 27 1945.

Can you provide link to that "document"? ;)

@Velund, apparently this info was publicised by your own Ministry of Defense (at least in 2015), so maybe it's on their site or something - I don't know where they publish such things. It should be easier for a native speaker of Russian to check such stuff than for me, so go for it :) Unless you don't want to know the truth :)))

So, you never seen the original source?

Apparently this is the link (if they didn't change anything):

mil.ru/winner_may/parad/his_docs/more.htm?id=20186@cmsPhotoGallery

Obviously, I'm not able to decipher this :), so the info that I have is from this Polish article:

wiadomosci.dziennik.pl/polityka/artykuly/481472,ukraincy-wyzwalali-auschwitz-dane-rosjyjskiego-ministerstwa.html

The ethnic make up among the privates in the 60th Army as on the 1st of January 1945:

Ukrainians - 28347 (51%)
Russians - 22294 (40%)

The rest were Belarusians, Tatars, Jews and Poles.

...a point as valid as that the first soldiers to land in Normandy were New Yorkers, not Texans.

Btw, fun fact - apparently the first tank that breached the gate of Auschwitz-Birkenau was being driven by an Ukrainian (Hawryłowicz Pobirczenko) who later became a law professor.


No, this is a very valid point:

Firstly, because New Yorkers and Texans are not separate nationalities or even ethnicities and they don't live in different countries that are currently in a state of war, so your comparison is laughable.

Secondly, because RuSSia and RuSSians behave as if they single-handedly won and liberated everyone and everything. So it's a good thing to pierce that inflated balloon a bit :)

Thirdly and most importantly - RuSSian propaganda makes it look like all Ukrainians were in UPA murdering Poles and Jews, which is obviously not the case. Ukrainians had a big share not only in liberating Auschwitz-Birkenau, but also in the Soviet Union's victory over Nazis.

There are a lot of baloons to pop, a lot of Ukrainians (as well as Jews) that were not affiliated with extremist groups fought as best they could in the "Defensive war" until the defeat at end of September 1939.

Most casualties from the Soviet Union during the war were from areas of the former commonwealth found out by Snyder. A lot of the brunt of horrible experiences came to the homes of Belarusians and Ukrainians. While Soviet Union tried to portray it as a Soviet tragedy trying to unite Belarusian, Jewish and Ukrainian suffering as Soviet (and hereby also Russian) was a lot less obnoxious then today when Russians talk about Russians only or mainly cause Soviet = Russian.

Which isn't always the case. And very hard to understand in the west

Interesting that Putler has now refused to meet Zelensky - says he is not the legitimate president of Ukraine

I imagine that Biden and Boris is somehow behind this

looks like the aussie teacher vegan/ukranian freedom fighter is alive in russian captivity.
just another uki psyop that dumb as a plank people like mafketis et all fell for. its kinda pavlovian,

What's dumb about believing that ? - the NNs have a track record of murdering important prisoners, or even their own volunteers like Russell Bentley

I don't recall saying anything about the australian guy in particular. Unlike some here I'm very sure that I don't know everything going on. War is all about misdirection and propaganda and people that uncritically believe any source are basic suckers.

I might comment on a specific incident either in the war or some dysfunctional sh)t in russia (like families sending male relatives to die for money... very russian (or russian soldiers torturing each other) but I've said very little to nothing about the trajectory of the war.


Who could have predicted that?????!!!??? He's just in a snit because Ukraine has not given him an opportunity to fire missiles on voting locations (does anyone here think they wouldn't)

Together privates + sergeants:
Russians - 34897
Ukrainians - 35915

Difference become much less significant

And total with officers:
Russians - 42298
Ukrainians - 38041

In total count there is more russians than ukrainians (by passport records).

BUT. I have a lot of relatives with "ukrainised" version of my family name in Dnepropetrovsk area, and asked granfather, while it was alive, why there is about half of "ukrainians" by passport and with ukrainised version of family, and half of russians by passport with russian family version. He told me that it was a result of forceful "ukrainisation" in 1920-30's. Local authorities simply written "ukrainian" as nationality in newly issued birth cerificates and passports, and "adjust" family name to sound "ukrainian". There was slim chances to refuse to get that documents, and it was problem to get a decent job without passing ukrainian language exam. My grandfather shown them middle finger, moved to Moscow area and changed everything back to russian variant ASAP.

For example, I had a friend with "Kostenko" family name. Turned out that in times when Donetsk still was Yuzovka, their family name was "Kostin", and their roots was in Bryansk area, before their grand-grandfather moved to Yuzovka to work in coal mines. Later, their family was "ukrainised".

So, "ukrainians" numbers in that report is far from reality. There is a good share of russians, bulgarians and so on, who was "ukrainised" in a period between world wars.

Yes, but I wrote about ordinary soldiers (privates) in my original post. The total number of Russian soldiers in the 60th Army is a bit higher than that of Ukrainians only because Russians were overrepresented in higher ranks. 🤔


Velund, I'm sorry (well, no, I'm not really sorry lol), but I don't believe a word of what you're saying. As in - by default I don't believe the likes of you, Bobko and the rest of Putinists on this forum, because you guys were writing already all kinds of bullsh1t, lies and manipulations.

I also have no idea who your grandfather was, what kind of person he was. Maybe he was a lying RuSSian nationalist/imperialist, like you guys on this forum.

So, if you have any credible, independent source to confirm what you're saying then post a link.


Um... Sorry, but you don't know that :) For example, I remember reading that the gate of Auschwitz-Birkenau was opened by the inhabitants of Lviv and Żytomierz (Житомир). So it's not just about surnames, but also about where those people were from. Or are you going to try and tell me that Ukrainians from Lviv and Żytomierz were in fact "ukrainised Russians, Bulgarians and so on"?? :D If that's the case then why Poles, Jews, Tatars and Belarusians didn't get their surnames ukrainised too? ;D Please, spare me such bullsh1t, come on... lol

Also, another thing - if that was the case then why those "ukrainised Russians, Bulgarians and so on" were underrepresented in higher ranks of that 60th Army? You only send in "your own people" to be in charge if you don't trust those privates "from another mother". Why would Moscow not trust "Russians" who were only forcefully given Ukrainian surnames? Sorry, but it makes no sense to me.

Just out of curiosity - what difference does it make?

@Mr Grunwald, you made very good points and spot on observations in your #711 comment. Great post! 👏


Exactly.


I don't know where exactly all of the non-Russian soldiers who were present in the 60th Army on that 1st of January 1945 were conscripted, but if you look at the ethnic makeup (Ukrainians, Belarusians, Tatars, Jews, Poles) then it is the classic ethnic makeup of the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth territories (present day Ukraine + Belarus).

There are no Kazakhs, Georgians or Chechens, etc. on that list.


Please, don't waste my time again. *sigh*

your time is cheap and you could learn something from me, so instead of whining some female BS, would u answer my question?
Maybe you need vitamin D for your brain to function properly.