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Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 17


Alien  25 | 6002
1 day ago   #841
Trump and his team have signaled opposition

For now they can signal whatever they want, e.g. control the train signals under the Christmas tree. One can only hope that Ukraine will make use of these last months and properly use up its long-range missile resources.
cms neuf  1 | 1915
1 day ago   #842
Use of chemical weapons is outside the rules of war too. That's why the guy was executed.
Korvinus  2 | 582
20 hrs ago   #843
The Berlin Declaration on Ukraine has been signed.
united24media.com/latest-news/ukraine-and-nato-allies-signed-the-berlin-declaration-heres-what-this-means-4418
The declaration reaffirms support for Ukraine's euro-Atlantic integration, including eventual NATO membership

I think it's time for Putin to draw another red line, after this red line is getting crossed.
PolAmKrakow  2 | 1040
19 hrs ago   #844
@Korvinus
More political theater. NATO membership never going to happen. Foreign Ministers have zero real authority and cannot bind any nation to anything.
OP Bobko  28 | 2363
17 hrs ago   #845
Use of chemical weapons is outside the rules of war too

Everybody - you, Reuters, Zelensky - is talking about "chemical weapons".

Sometimes, they actually write the ominous sounding name of the compound - chloropicrin!

For example, on June 7 2024, the State Department published a press release under the title: "Russia Spreads Disinformation to Cover Up Its Use of Chemical Weapons in Ukraine". There, chloropicrin is again mentioned as the agent that was used.

Source: state.gov/russia-spreads-disinformation-to-cover-up-its-use-of-chemical-weapons-in-ukraine/#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20determined%20Russia,Chemical%20Weapons%20Convention%20(CWC).

But has anybody actually bothered to read about what the hell chloropicrin is?

Turns out... chloropicrin is widely known in agriculture (as a fumigant), and in law enforcement (as tear gas). Here's the CDC webpage, where chloropicrin is discussed under "Riot Control Agents":

cdc.gov/chemical-emergencies/chemical-fact-sheets/riot-control-agents.html

What does the CDC recommend to do, if confronted with this terrible and sadistic Russian weapon?

Quote:
"Since breathing in riot control agents is the primary way of exposure, leave the area and get fresh air. Quickly moving to an area where fresh air is available is highly effective in reducing exposure to riot control agents."

Guess what, that is precisely what the Russian military uses it for - to eject Ukrainians from their trenches.

So if we are guilty of committing war crimes, then the police department of every major city in the United States is guilty of war crimes too, and the gendarmes of Paris, and the police of Berlin, and everyone else.

At least we are using chemical weapons against the enemy, while you use them on your own children! Hehehe

This "Russia uses chemical weapons" story is one of those that p*ss me off the most. Raging double standards and willful ignorance to facts.
OP Bobko  28 | 2363
16 hrs ago   #846
Russia uses tear gas... what does Ukraine use?

1) White phosphorus - melts away human muscle and bones as if you were made from cotton candy

2) Ancient American cluster munitions, which even the Pentagon says are not safe to use because they have a 30%+ dud rate. Then kids find these little submunitions, thinking they are toys, and have their limbs blown off.

3) Ancient European landmines (even Spain has put in some major efforts there), which the Ukrainians plant wily-nilly without making proper maps, and then forget about completely. Many are undetectable by metal detector, and can stay armed for up to two
years.

4) Drones that pour molten thermite into our trenches. Of course using tear gas is barbaric... real gentlemen burn holes in their enemies' bodies by pouring 2,500 C hot metal on them.
pawian  221 | 25943
16 hrs ago   #847
Then kids find these little submunitions,

Spare us those fake worries about kids. Imperial Russians kill them on a daily basis during their attacks against Ukrainian cities.
cms neuf  1 | 1915
16 hrs ago   #848
Those wordy explanations can all be saved for The Hague

But as that is not looking lightly for a few years, in the meantime he can answer for his crimes upstairs and let St Piotr know it is only innocent tear gas
Feniks  1 | 634
16 hrs ago   #849
White phosphorus -

Russia says Ukraine has used it but couldn't provide details of the evidence.

Apparently Russia has also used it on Ukraine:

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65506993
Novichok  5 | 8479
16 hrs ago   #850
Those wordy explanations can all be saved for The Hague

You forgot to indicate which of Bobko's four claims are not true and to what extent.

they have a 30%+ dud rate.

Just don't play those stupid Polak games and say that Claim 2 is not true because the dud rate is 29%. I know you azholes too well to overlook that possibility.

Apparently Russia has also used it on Ukraine:

If Russia used that stuff in Donbass, it's perfectly OK with me since Donbass is Russia.

Once the occupying Ukrainian army leaves or dies, all will be fine and very peaceful in Donbass.
cms neuf  1 | 1915
15 hrs ago   #851
Also skeptical about the idea that ukraine would lay a minefield but not make any maps - that is obviously typical drunk North Nigerian behavior but the Ukie army is quite well organized
OP Bobko  28 | 2363
15 hrs ago   #852
Those wordy explanations can all be saved for The Hague

Classic.

Can you at least tell me if you were surprised, when you understood that the "chemical weapons" they are scaring you with, is the same teargas that gets fired at rowdy Antifa and BLM protesters?

Because if this was Assad, or Saddam, your government would have been merrily on its way to declaring war on those countries - satisfied that it has convinced you of the appropriate moral mandate.

Because the target in this instance is Russia, they're just throwing all the spaghetti at the wall, and waiting to see what sticks.

I'll never forget, that in the first few weeks of this war, Ukraine had a human rights ombudswoman who shocked everyone daily with more and more grisly allegations. Her magnum opus, was the claim that Russian soldiers used teaspoons and candles to rape toddlers as young as 6 months old.

She had claimed, at one point, that her hotline had received 1000+ calls, HALF of which had to do with the rape of minors. She described the alleged crimes in excruciating pornographic detail, which was the first thing that gave it away. People started wondering, how exactly does this woman know the details to such an extent? Others also became concerned, that the woman was engaging in horror **** promotion at the expense of the privacy and mental health of the victims.

In parallel, however, bigger problems were brewing for her. Ukrainian law enforcement was attempting to follow up on all of the outrageous crimes she seemed to be uncovering, but could never find a victim, or any evidence of a crime having occurred. The office of the Ukrainian attorney general even summoned Lyudmila Denisova to provide an explanation for how she was learning about all these crimes that nobody else seemed to be aware of.

Meanwhile, on the pages of PF and on thousands of other websites around the world, people like Paulina were smacking their lips at the incredible bestiality of Russian orcs, who rape toddlers.

Finally, Denisova explained that she learned about all these crimes from her daughter - whom she had hired to be her deputy at this state-sponsored agency. It was the daughter that had actually monitored the hotlines, and had heard firsthand about all these atrocities - she alleged. So then the daughter had to be called in for questioning.

The daughter explained that she kept no records of who called the hotline, what they had alleged, what doctors or other specialists she had referred them to - NOTHING. Instead, she said she summarized the content of all the calls for her mother "over tea". Yep, that's what she said...

The cops then finally really got to work, and discovered that the hotline had received not 1,040 calls as alleged by Denisova and her daughter - but only 92. Even for those 92 there were zero meaningful records, let alone proof that any single one of those calls concerned the rape of a minor.

This is where it really became pathetic - during her interrogations, off camera, Denisova would plead with the cops that the only reason she had done all these things was to fulfil her small role as a "warrior on the information front", and do her small part in "defeating Russia". Unfortunately, this noble reason was not enough to save her career. Afterwards, several new cases got opened against her for graft and improperly hiring her own daughter.

This is just one story, from the past three years, that for some strange reason actually got decent coverage from the West. Here you can read a write-up from Germany's state press agency:

dw.com/ru/delo-denisovoj-novye-obvinenija-v-adres-ukrainskogo-jeks-ombudsmena/a-62319892
pawian  221 | 25943
15 hrs ago   #853
Like a typical imperial Russian, you have no mercy on people, posting such long diatribes. Please........
OP Bobko  28 | 2363
15 hrs ago   #854
posting such long diatribes

I write fast.

It's also such an extremely stupid case, that I still often think about it.
pawian  221 | 25943
15 hrs ago   #855
an extremely stupid case,

Can you summarise it in 3 sentences max???
OP Bobko  28 | 2363
15 hrs ago   #856
Can you summarise it in 3 sentences max???

Ukraine lies. Ukraine's lies hurt Ukraine more than they ever do Russia. The lies are a symptom of desperation.
Novichok  5 | 8479
15 hrs ago   #857
Just don't play those stupid Polak games and say that Claim 2 is not true because the dud rate is 29%.

Bobko, the quoted sentence was addressed to cymes, not you.
Sorry for the confusion...
cms neuf  1 | 1915
15 hrs ago   #858
North Nigeria lies about every thing - so it is totally likely they lie about this too

North Nigeria is a cruel regime that tortures and poisons its own people and has centuries of history in committing atrocities. So it is completely plausible that they use chemical weapons here - after all they have just given refuge to Assad who used them on his own people
OP Bobko  28 | 2363
15 hrs ago   #859
So it is completely plausible

I know why you have such confidence - you are projecting. You do this yourself, so you assume everyone else does it too.

Why is it that the only people that ever used nukes are the ones that go around reading everybody lectures about how nukes are bad?

How come, the countries that invented chemical weapons, and used them to gas more than a million of their young men - are the ones moaning about tear gas?

Nobody is as good as Western Europeans at mass murder, and yet they still claim the moral high ground.
cms neuf  1 | 1915
15 hrs ago   #860
You are talking about 1914

Syria used them in 2014 and the man who ordered that is sat in a cafe in Moscow sipping a cup of your disgusting Cuban coffee
OP Bobko  28 | 2363
14 hrs ago   #861
You are talking about 1914

What's the difference between 1914 and 2014?

In 1914, Picasso and Kandinsky were painting. The Ballets Russes were performing in Paris.

James Joyce and Marcel Proust were killing it in the literary world.

The telephone and telegraph had shrunk the world. Cars and trains were already ubiquitous.

Societies were debating the safety of vaccines (rabies, smallpox), and women were fighting for greater representation in public life.

In many ways 1914 was a more civilized time than now, and from a historian's perspective so little time has gone by it might as well be yesterday.

For most intents and purposes life in 1914 was just as modern as it is now, in terms of outlook. Nobody thought chemical weapons were "no big deal". The horror was apparent immediately. Yet they used it anyway, because the fronts stubbornly refused to budge.
Atch  24 | 4358
14 hrs ago   #862
What's the difference between 1914 and 2014?

The Tsar was still on the throne, the Ottoman Empire still existed, as did the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the British Empire, the Chinese Empire, the Japanese Empire. Imperialism and Monarchy were still the norm. America wasn't a super power. The world has changed a lot since 1914 but maybe not in the Russian mindset.
Ironside  50 | 12474
14 hrs ago   #863
The Tsar was still on the throne, t

I think it would be a good thing if Piast's would return. They are needed in Poland.
pawian  221 | 25943
14 hrs ago   #864
The Tsar the Ottoman Empire d the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the British Empire, ,

Thanks for this short refreshment on history. :):);

but maybe not in the Russian mindset.

It is still the same after centuries - Russian belief is that the Western world is trying to conquer them.

Hey, Russians, the Western world doesn`t need you. They only need your resources. Your Russian barbaric culture is useless to them.
You have two options - get civilised at last, join the West and embark on true prosperity.
Remain the barbarians you are and vanish into oblivion under the Chinese boot.
Crow  154 | 9573
14 hrs ago   #865
Ukraine lies.

Papacy. Papacy lies.

See, some Slavs of Ukraine succumbed to the pressure of papacy. They were not strong where Poles were.
pawian  221 | 25943
14 hrs ago   #866
Papacy. Papacy lies.

bs. The Papa loves Russia.
Conclusion - you should love the Papa just like you love Russia.
Ironside  50 | 12474
14 hrs ago   #867
Papacy.

you can observe Crow he doesn't hear voices, and doesn't experience visual delusions but still he is crazy as a bag of beans. Ce type est vraiment barjo!
pawian  221 | 25943
14 hrs ago   #868
vanish into oblivion under the Chinese boot

Prophetic jokes from my youth in early 1980s:

Breaking news from today!!!! Again new clashes on the Polish Chinese border!!!! hahahaha buhahahaha
OP Bobko  28 | 2363
14 hrs ago   #869
The Tsar was still on the throne

The point was simple - chemical weapons were always seen as evil, and nothing special has happened in the last 100 years that would have prompted some further evolution in our views on them.

In fact, the impression was already strong enough, that they were not even used in WW2, unless you count Zyklon-B being used to gas the Jews.

You can read books, published during WW1, where people already are as outraged as Neuf above re: the use of chemical weapons. In the 1920s, there's a million more books - like Remarque's "All Quiet on the Western Front".

Their use happened anyway. People like Haig, Foch, Falkenhayn didn't give a f*ck.

People in 1914 were better educated, better behaved, and more moral persons than people now.
Crow  154 | 9573
14 hrs ago   #870
bs. The Papa loves Russia.

Problem don`t need to be in this Pope. Problem is in institution. The Pope, The Archbishop of Constantinople. They don`t pray for Slavic world or for Slavs. They are guild.


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