Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany?

Acceptable....

"I will double your money" and "You can trust me".

I know that

@TheOther, Southern German IS "High German" at least, Oberdeutsch/Upper German,
even if not High German Standard, that's true. Yiddish clearly derives though from the latter,
not from Low German.

Again Swabian for example has a number of Yiddish loan words used in daily
parlance such as "epis" for "etwas", just as in Yiddish.

"Willscht no' epis drinka?" = Moechtest du noch etwas zu trinken?

Hochdeutsch is certainly not Bavarian, Lyzko.

Of course, we both know that. However, even if tangential to the current discussion,
what we speak today as High German developed in erstwhile "teutschen Landen" from
South to North rather than the other way round. The model, if you wish, for modern standard
German was Obersaechsisch or Upper Saxon from the Saxon Court in the late 17th, early 18th century, also referred jokingly to as "Kaffeesaechsisch"
That's all I was trying to say:-)

Returning to the thread topic, Saxony, like Thuringia, remains among the most politically reactionary
regions of the Federal Republic!

For whom? Not for Poland.
--


really? Why don't you go and show off on some German forum about how little you know about Germany you can even start competitions.

....no....that conclusion of yours....would "agreeable" have been a better choice of words?

I can't help it but it surely seems that this "Europa über alles" has been a kind of a sham....but then....it delivered for Germans for decades....

Indeed and that is the crux of the matter we arguing about for a long time on PF. I don't deny that this is the case and that wouldn't be a problem, the problem is that Germany rigged the system in their favor and then rigged some more and then adjusted even more when it seemed less advantageous to Germany.

It is hardly fair and you can't expect you can (as in Germany) put this stunt for even. Yet seems there is no ounce of willingness for a compromise.

In such circumstances, you can hardly expect Poland to say that kind of the EU is rigged forever and set to be rigged in perpetuity in favor of one country.

--
As I said a level playing field and opportunity for everyone to shine is a good recipe for prosperity. The EU is anything but...and it is turning into some leftie BS with a German twist.

.....I would say the contrary is happening! Did you follow the last european elections?

The nationalist parties gained nearly everywhere, also in Germany!

In Germany the AfD would be your party, but I don't know how a nationalist german party would make things better for Poland in the EU?

And also....the EU is not a Germany-only game but with many players....to blame it all on Germany alone leaves everybody else in a sweet, flawless spot, doesn't it!

A guy with terminal Stage 4 lung cancer walks into the ER and says: Pleeeease...save me...cough...cough...

Dr Novi: Were you fvcking deaf when I was telling you to stop smoking, you dumb piece of woke white crap???

Instead, you listened to the Other, Lyzko, Atch, and Barney...FU!

.....probably feeling no symptoms?

Leftism/Wokism is only something if all runs well....if people feel good, or at least not threatened by this crisis or another....it's only human!

People are learning that in a crisis, when they need to pull together, it's back to nationalism...to the common roots....


?

Some things are so self-evident that "I didn't know" is no longer a credible defense.

The evil of unfiltered immigration is in that category.

....it's rather a "I don't care!"

And why should they if all is perceived running well? Most people are not naturally interested in politics, only want to be left alone, living their lives....


Thing is it didn't start that big...it has been building up over many years...the turning point, where it becomes to much/to many, is different for many people.

wrong thread:)

Not really, so far it is a weak reaction to all the nonsense and Left craziness accumulated by the EU. It won't change much, maybe in the future but for now still, the same woke elite hold onto power with their zombie grip.

--


I don't know either, maybe they would revert the EU to the economic cooperation sphere with a level playing field.
---


Still, the main players were Germany and France and for the last 20 years, it was Germany I would say thanks to new markets in new EU members - mainly Poland.

---

Not for Germany.....it has been a shock for the establishment!

Far right parties have never made it in the two-digit zone before ..it was something german-specific, due our Nazi-past.


Yeah well...what do you expect? A revolution? A Putsch? It's the slow, sure way of democracy...fighting every election for the certain percents more which will give you power....

Not to mention Macron, who might see it differently, otherwise he wouldn't had called for new elections, risking his far right adversaries taking over Paris, very soon!


Okay Iron, what are your ideas?

You have a country, or two, which made the EU working for them....you have a country (you) which is kind of pissed and jealeous, because they feel left out. You had even a party ruling for a long time who embodied that feeling (PiS)....seemingly though even with all their political power and influence they couldn't change it for the better for Poland.

It's probably not working to demand from the members who use the EU for their advantages to give that up freely...

So, what would you do? How would a Poland look like which you would agree with....what exactly would need to be changed? Just blaming Germany all the time is not getting you anywhere!

I don't think I expected anything. I rather look at the Tusk government and think that they will be doing what they are doing for a few more years unless there is a way to kick them out. The EU political situation makes it more difficult.

---


How about making it so that it would work for everybody, for every country in the EU?
---


Every country deserves to develop and prosper, there is nothing wrong with it. What is wrong is using sinister tricks to stop them from it just so you keep going with your easy little money without effort.

Ideas? I told you meant times.
The EU should be about economics, There should be a level playing field without barriers inside EU borders. Let go of all those Brussels pen-pushers and corrupted lobbying machines.

Just countries representatives - very few of them would work on details and procedures and way to achieve it, they could move that new place to Germany, closer to other new EU states, and as Germany would remain for now an industrial center that would make sense,

I hope it is clear enough. A free competition without EU borders and protection from outside. ( not like now that German companies are making money in Poland by billions and are everywhere and if some Polish company makes it in Germany it would last long due to sinister action by German rulers.)

Also, no ideological policies to be forced on everyone, and no centralization, there is no need for an EU central government, Bank, or anything else of that kind.

If the economic union works in time there will be a possible drive to establish some kind of central body but not now and not in this manner and not this way. That is a travesty.

If not I would say that the only option would be Polexit.

Many agreeable things you said....and I said before many, many Europeans see it the same way.

But a Polexit would not change anything, nor would a Dexit....as the Brexit has proven!

The EU is not an alien thing forced on us by some monarch or dictator, it is made up by it's member states. Even the far right speaks no longer of "...exits" but tries to win elections at home and builds support groups in Brussels to change the things from the inside....hence the importance of such things like the last european elections.

--------------------

Voting system
How does the Council vote?

Depending on the issue under discussion, the Council of the EU takes its decisions by:

simple majority (14 member states vote in favour)
qualified majority (55% of member states, representing at least 65% of the EU population, vote in favour)
unanimous vote (all votes are in favour)

----------------

consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/

Every member state has the same vote, one...be it Germany or be it Poland!

Poland could become a big player, if it tries and works for his interests from the ground up for supporters, networking and such....things are already changing, maybe slowly but surely!

I never knew what the PiS was doing in Brussels...they had years to move things there...did they actually achieve something at all? Do you have more infos on that?

How can there be a level playing field when there are only a few net payers in the union who finance the competition by supporting the economies of net recipients? If you want a true level playing field, every country would need to fight for itself. But then we are back to pre-WW2 times, and we all know how that ended. The union was founded for a reason; it's not all about economics.

The most important reason was maintaining peace in Europe, and only then economic reasons, such as the abolition of customs barriers or the introduction of a common currency.

So how come the USA exists?
---


What do you mean? If reasonable demands are not met then the only way is to say either you yield or we are out.
Negotiations, one vote, elections you sound rather nice, naive, or maybe cunning because it seems the current system is working for Germany. That system is rigged and that system needs to be fired and changed. Simple.

You mean "my way or the highway"?

Super powers can maybe act like this....not middle sized countries. We need to work for it....search for support....build alliances....make compromises..... For us it's more like "if you scratch my back i'll scratch yours".

For that the EU is the best place available....all together, constant meetings....every country has the same vote. Without the EU nobody would even ask for your opinion!


That voting system is actually truly a topic for discussion! Important decision need unanimity. That means a country can veto decisions, hence blocking the whole process, like Hungary did with EU funds for Ukraine.

There are many voices who want to change that to majority voting.....

No, I mean that system is rigged in a way that anything short of exit doesn't work.
--


BB the whole system needs to be changed, meaning the existing system should be scraped and rewritten anew.

....if it's the natural advantages of the older members, especially the founding members....yeah, they exist. You must'n forget that East-Germans like me are closer to Poland and other Eastern-Block members than West-Germans.

Many things that happened to Poles happened also to East-Germans...there are reasons the AfD is that strong in the former GDR-Territory, but still...I wouldn't call that rigged.

Especially not in the EU councils, where everyone has the same vote. It just needs more time and experiences and work to catch up to nearly 40 years more time for connections and networkings, IMHO!


There is only one way to go....look for supporters, develop the needed legal things and bring that cases to the voting. If you can convince enough others it will go through...

I don't know how these procedures should/could be rigged or changed!

Well, Ironside! At least you and I both agree that a AfD victory would be as disastrous for
Poland as for Germany:-)

Exactly.


United States of America = one nation
European Union = many nations

I strongly believe that the EU will not be able to survive in its current form; especially if they continue to allow new countries in. Now they are considering Ukraine, which is crazy. Nobody can pay for that. In the end the EU will probably break apart and some core members in the west and north will establish a new, closer union instead.

....wouldn't that end the main reasoning for its founding? Keeping the peace in Europe?

Two rivaling Unions in Europe is the main ingredient for bloc-building, including hostilities and in the end even war!

I hope not. The problem with the current version of the EU is that it is too big with too few net payers and too many net recipients. Not sustainable over a prolonged period of time. If the EU doesn't break apart over the immigration issue and the rise of the far right, financial issues will bring it to its knees in the end. They swallowed already more than they can chew. If Ukraine and some of the other ex Soviet republics are allowed in, that's a recipe for disaster.


I wouldn't call it "rivaling unions", I would call it "Two-speed Europe". The concept is an old one and has been debated before. I believe that's the only sensible approach.

But rivalries are predictable...it would for sure split Europe again into two camps...it's a human thing, like two local football clubs, tensions will be unavoidable!


It isn't meant for always....the current net recipients are expected to put in their share into the common pot, sooner or later.


Well...my guess is one will solve the other. With the rise of the far right the immigration issue will be tackled, they will make sure of that!