In comparison with Germany, Poland, Turkey (though less perhaps in the modern era than the UK or France), I've got to go along with Rich, that the US indeed has free speech to the extent that one is totally free to make an ever lovin' ass of themselves and not risk gov't. reprisals.
On the other hand, in no country is "free" speech entirely free, meaning, that yelling FIRE! in a crowded theatre, overtly threatening someone's life before witnesses of sound mind, and so forth, won't be tolerated.
In Turkey, poking fun at Ataturk might well carry a stiff punishment of some sort. In Germany, joking openly about the Nazi Era ain't a good idea either, and of course as of February of 2018, slurring Poland's alleged involvement in the Holocaust is punishable as well. In the US, I can proclaim that the president is a jerk etc. and nothing will happen by contrast. Threaten the life of any public figure anywhere in the world, and there certainly will be reprisals.
Yeah its pretty ridiculous how germany uk and sweden prosecute people for merely repeating facts and statistics on Facebook or Twitter especially if it pertains to migrants or muslims. Thank God we don't have that in the US, but that doesn't mean the left isnt pushing for it. They despise free speech or rather any speech that doesn't conform with their agenda
Most people in Europe are grateful for US defence and for the sacrifices of US soldiers and sailors, But America join the war because ir was attacked - not because of some holy mission to create democracies
In any European democracy if the people wish for a watertight, US style of FreeSpeech then they can vote for a government the promises one.
No, they can't. Western Europe is run by its ruling class impervious to voters' wishes. WE voters are as powerless to stop the refugees and other illegal scum as the voters in communist Poland were powerless to keep the Soviet army out of Poland. The disgusting thing about the American losses in money and blood during WW2 and as part of NATO is that WE is now on a suicide mission. Defending Europe was a collosal mistake.
The PH attack was a just a pretext Roosevelt was praying for every day. So the SOB set it up to make it easy for the Japs to make a move. Getting all those US sailors murdered was just part of the deal and a prop for his day-of-infamy speech. Again, the fact that the overwhelming majority of Americans didn't want another Euro war didn't matter.
It's gradually changing But not in western Europe. The v4, austria and now eben Italy is finally saying enough is enough with the migrants. This isn't even a battle of liberal vs conservative, right vs left its globalist vs nationalist. And indeed the nationalists and populists are winning elections all over eastern and central.europe and saying they will not blindly abide by the eus dictates and migrant quotas - especially poland and hungary
Free speech, once again, is a sticky wicket, as the Brits would have said. Is one necessarily free to trample on the hearts and minds of others by hurting indiscriminantly with hate or bigotry? On the other hand, Germany for instance, has become terribly concerned for at least the past ten years or more, that the Merkel gov't. as but the latest example, is creating a sort of "left-wing" dictatorship in which even mention of the Nazi era (certainly in a provocative vein aka Jonathan Meese or Thilo Sarrazin and others, I'm sure) becomes a seriously punishable offense.
Although I do support a degree of political correctness, I too yearn for the time when a merely flip, witty off-the-cuff gibe didn't have to be a cause celebre and unleash WWIII! Germany, Poland, Sweden among certain nations, remain so thin skinned vis-a-vis "pc behavior", one wonders whether or not they actually feel comfortble with, much less understand the meaning of "free speech".
It's gradually changing But not in western Europe.
That's progress but I am not impressed. EU countries are like connected buckets with several of them happily taking in the sewer from Africa and Asia. Consistently with the laws of physics, that sewer spreads and there is little anyone can do about it. As the US experience shows so clearly by now, the road from electing a good guy like Trump to an effective barrier to the asylum scammers is a long one. We, like WE, are so far totally powerless with that catch-and-release nonsense even with a right guy in the WH.
The only thing that really works is the Isreali style wall augmented by the IDF shooting real ammo and leaving the process of sorting them out to God. For that, I love Israel.
Italy is finally saying enough is enough with the migrants.
Except they're saying "enough, and they must be compulsory resettled elsewhere in the EU". Bad news for Poland and Hungary.
nationalists and populists are winning elections
And as soon as they do, they drop all their previous rhetoric in order to govern. What was supposed to be mass deportations has quickly turned into resettlement - which means disaster for Poland. Italians aren't stupid, and linking resettlement to cohesion funds will be a very effective way of channelling cash into Italy and Spain at the expense of Poland and Hungary.
By the way, the next deal will probably be decided by majority vote. Italy and Spain are big net contributors with significant influence, and as you say, populists and nationalists are putting together a deal there. Who is going to lose? Poland and Hungary, of course. Do you really think the Italians are going to say "yeah, we'll take on the burden by ourselves, and we'll keep on paying Poland and Hungary large amounts of cash", or are they going to tell their voters that Poland and Hungary will either take migrants or they won't get a single cent of Italian money?
What is beyong my comprehension is why under the EU rules any country has an obligation to share in the misery caused by a reckless moron member like Germany, for example. At the time of signing, WE was well defined, the land and the people. Fine. Even if people can relocate as they wish, it's still the same land and the people. Allowing a million incompatible welfare Muslim rapists without the consent of all member countries in was not part of the deal. That argument should be all Poland and Hungary should advance and win.
Win what? Poland and Hungary are heavily dependent on the EU, and cannot 'win'. If they don't like the game, they can leave it, and leave behind the astronomical amounts of cash that both governments heavily rely on.
You're certainly more than welcome to introduce the concept to Polish farmers of "no more farm payments". You'll probably last about ten minutes, but still.
How much Poland gets from the EU is irrelevant. Germany has as much right to dump 100,000 smelly refugees on Poland as Poland to be a conduit for 100,000,000 Chinese happily on the way to Germany for their welfare checks.
Particulary Lega Nord has promised its' voters to push for a relocation of the Italian funds that goe to Bruessels in order to use it for the refugee crisis. Money that would have gone to Eastern Europe. Both government parties are also unashamedly pro-Russian and want an immediate end to the sanctions.
Only morons think that this is good news for Poland. Though this is typical for the far-right. They are so fixated on the migrant crisis that they are blind towards the real dangers for their country.
Only morons think that this is good news for Poland.
Anything that undermines power of the tyrannical neo-Marxist Brussel desk jockeys and their German masters is good for Poland. Germany are talking all the EU into economical war with the USA. At the same time Germany is amendment about building a lifeline support for the Putin's regime. (north stream 2).
So talking about pro-Russian parties in Italy and elsewhere is a tad hypocritical for a German.
Money that would
The EU and haggling for money are synonymous. It ill never change while some unelected bureaucrats with a Merkel's finger in their posteriors are in power.
Juncker unveiled a statue of Karl Marx in Tier. I think that in the name of tolerance and diversity he should unveil a statue of Alfred Ernst Rosenberg. Also as gesture of a good will towards America a statue of John Caldwell Calhoun. Why the hell not!
Particulary Lega Nord has promised its' voters to push for a relocation of the Italian funds that goe to Bruessels in order to use it for the refugee crisis
Indeed. It's very, very clear that a deal between Five Star and Lega will result in a clear ultimatum to Poland and Hungary - no Italian contribution without migrants. If the Italians refuse to contribute, Spain will no doubt follow. At that point, Poland is powerless and at the mercy of conservatives who put their own country first.
the funny thing is how quickly it has become clear that the flow of migrants into Europe represent anything but a massive liability (except to the people smugglers).
remember how funny it was when they were pretending that they would contribute economically? hilarious!
It is also so funny to hear the liberals claiming that all races are equally smart. Once they get that lie solidly imbedded in the sheep, everything else is easy.
Birkenau claiming Poland was also responsible for the deaths of Jews during the Holocaust.
The IDF reserve officer was visiting Auschwitz-Birkenau with the army's Witnesses in Uniform program and held up a piece of paper which read, in Polish, "You also had a part in this," Israel's Army Radio reported.
An IDF spokesperson said the action was "serious and contrary to the values of the army" and the man would be disciplined, the Times of Israel reported.
He should've stayed in Israel and shot unarmed teenagers... then he'd be rewarded
Hahahaha! Had to share this piece of psychopathic derangement: israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/246950 Poland, nor any other nation, needs this kind of "help".
An update on this Holocaust™ law: telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/27/polish-government-backs-controversial-holocaust-law-angered/
Oh yeah, this happened last week but I suppose it should be mentioned here, as this whole thread was about it.
On Wednesday last week, after a lot of pressure, the Polish government changed the IPN law and took out the criminal charges part. Now it will not be a criminal offence to say Polish death camps or that Poland was responsible for the holocaust.
For my part, I'd be terribly curious as to how the mainstream German media, namely organs like DER SPIEGEL, responded to the Polish gov't. IPS law regarding Polish treatment of the Holocaust years!
@WielkiPolak and TheWizard, you realize of course that you're merely espousing revisionist bilge which merely plays into the hands of bigots and Jew-haters such as the David Irvings of this world!
He should've stayed in Israel and shot unarmed teenagers... then he'd be rewarded
Let me understand it better. In the past, a bunch of Israeli soldiers walked into a Palestinian school during math class, picked a couple of teenagers, took them outside and shot them.
@Lyzko What are you talking about? I just wrote what happened. Did I say 'this proves Poland is in the hands of Jews' or something similar? My post was factual.
I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. Here is my post
What is revisionist about this? There was a lot of pressure on Poland from both Israel and the USA to scrap the IPN law. Fact. They didn't scrap it, but they modified it, taking out the criminalisation aspect. Fact. I don't think you understand what has been going on if you think this is revisionist.
The only part I did not mention yet, was that the Israeli and Polish prime ministers made a joint statement about what took place during the Holocaust. This joint statement has already been criticised by Israeli minister of education Naftali Bennett, opposition leader Yair Lapid and the Israeli media, for being 'too lenient' on Poland and their role in the Holocaust. Again fact. Check the Israeli media if you don't believe me.
Home / News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps'
