Do young Polish people believe in their religion and God?

I'm currently reading 'Faith and Fatherland: Catholicism, Modernity and Poland' (Brian Porter-Szucs, OUP,)

He writes "The conviction that the state was an alien force, and that Poles needed to struggle for independence was not only a reference to the undeniable Soviet hegemony over the Warsaw Pact countries. More deeply, it was an assertion that only a fully Catholic state could be a national state. This is why many hardliners in the Church refuse to this day to acknowledge that their country is independent; as a secular liberal democracy, it cannot, by definition, be Polish. The new masters might be labeled EU bureaucrats, Jews, gays, Masons, etc., but it is accepted as a given that they cannot be Polish because they are not building a Catholic state."

This equation, Polak-Katolik, an inseparable pairing, he argues, is so fundamental, so intrinsic to Polish identity that to be Polish is to be Catholic. Yet this is a curious logic that also admits that "non-Catholic Poles are our brothers with equal rights [pełnoprawnymi współbraćmi] ... Our history provides much evidence that the Catholicism of Polish culture does not prevent Poles who are not Catholics to feel that they are its fully-endowed heirs and co-creators."

Or second-class citizens perhaps?

load of rubbish. This statement is only true for certain type of people, a minority in Poland.

Spot on. However it is a myth that is strongly encouraged by the same minority.

I can't understand why foreigners want to see Poland as fundamentalistic country. Does it give you a scent of exotica?


I'm agnostic, and I don't feel a second class citizen. Moreover I can see how Catholics or religious people on the whole begin to be an object of mocking. It's saddening.

Well, this foreigner doesn't. However, reconciling a secular Poland in the manner of a secular England to what one sees and experiences does pose many questions - I'm genuinely trying to understand, not to give offence. The author writes "99% of all children in Poland are baptized, 92.8% of all marriages are accompanied by a church wedding, and between 90% and 98% of the population will answer 'Roman Catholic' when asked about their religion

Poland may be secular - but to imagine it's secular in the same way as England may be misleading? Or not?

It is to do with the fear of Catholicism, anti Catholic fear and loathing is deeply ingrained in many. As I've said before they don't see people they see Catholic people.

Edit


England is not the same as Poland or any other country. There is not an English man inside Polish people trying to get out.

That's probably true,most children are baptized altough I must say that among my friends it's usually because the family wants that.


There's no real alternative(if you want "pretty" ceremony).


Usually I hear "I don't know,I'm not sure"

Do I understand you correctly? A country to be secular must have a great deal of atheists, right? I thought that secularism means something else. Poland is a secular country but is not laicized country. Most people believe in something, they may be not "hardline" Catholics, they might be lapsed Catholics but they acknowledge their religion.

Now the things you quoted in your initial post are "hardline" doctrine, in Poland we call them slightly pejoratively "Katoprawica" (Catho-right wing).

I think that brushing whole bunch of people who can have completely spectrum of views with the same brush is slightly unfair.


I don't believe in this data.


yes, what's so suprising about that?

Yes, that's true. Growing up as a Roman Catholic in England I always felt slightly cautious, part of a minority against whom violence could break out unexpectedly. Until very recently a Catholic was still prohibited from high political office in England. One learned to,well, not hide, but not to announce one's Catholicism. And (until 1989) our churches were empty save for the old, there were no new vocations, and the church seemed as though it had come to an end here.

So when I attend mass in Poland in packed churches, with pews full of all ages, I should feel encouraged. But it merely raises a thousand more questions about the relationships between a man, the Church and the State.


The author quotes Borowik and Doktór, 23. Borowik, Irena and Tadeusz Doktór, Pluralizm religijny i moralny w Polsce: raport z badań. Kraków: Nomos, 2001


England has a State religion but is secular. Poland has no State religion but is less secular than England. Go figure.

I've omitted a word, sorry.


Politicians want votes. If people concur with some Catholic doctrines then no wonder they comply with them. The reason why GB is "more secular" is that roughly half of you are atheists, aren't you?


I don't care who he quotes. My point is that I live in a city were pretty many people are either lapsed Catholics or atheists. We even have a butterflyman:




Here you have a different data: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#Europe_and_Russia

It states that 80% of Poles believe in God. And that's just about believing in god, not about how many of them are Catholic.

Interesting that you use the word "you". Some of us, me included don't see our home that way at all. I'm not even sure I know more than a handful of churchgoers.

I mean you as an abstract group of people. Not particullary you Jon.

Damn!!! that,s the first time I have been called white trash??? I got called 'posh boy' and middle class in UK. I,ll get my complex,s seen to, I promise.

You don't talk like "posh boy".

don't worry Dreadnought - the pawian guy is a known troll here :)

Thanks gumishu I enjoy the Banter here, and for Pawian back in UK I was very embarrassed by and outspoken against those very 'white trash' you referred to.

I found this on a evangelical Christian website called the Joshua Project:

"Introduction / History
The Polish are from one of the oldest nations in Europe. Their history began over 1,000 years ago. Theirs was a large kingdom between the 15th and 18th centuries, but after this time came great troubles for Polish people. During the Second World War, many Polish died because of persecution and genocide. The collapse of communism in 1989 brought them freedom, but after 1989 millions of Polish suffered from poverty and unemployment. This fact caused much of the Polish emigration to Western countries.

Where are they located?
Most Polish live in Poland, in Central Europe, but there are big groups of Polish immigrants in USA, UK, Australia and Germany. There are also great Polish minorities in Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania and Russia.

What are their lives like?
Today many Polish people give up traditional lifestyle and worldview. After the collapse of communism, they started work more in private sector services and less in agriculture and industry. Young Polish want to study in high schools and have good jobs, but very often they are limited by poverty, especially in the villages. Today more than a half of Polish live in cities.

What are their beliefs?
Most Polish religious life is dominated by the Roman Catholic Church, but in reality about half of them are only nominally Catholics. The collapse of communism was a big cultural shock. Many Polish have a conservative worldview, but sometimes it becomes fanatical, without understanding of Bible and Biblical principles. The great influence of relativism is observed by the younger generation. Horoscopes, magic and other superstitions are still popular in Poland. Some Polish are also influenced by atheism, communism and materialism.

What are their needs?
Polish people are disappointed with politics and traditional Catholic religion. Big problems in Poland are also addictions - mostly alcoholism - and increasing number of divorces, which destroy family ties. Despite the fact that Poland is a Christian nation since its founding in 966, most Polish don't understand Christianity completely and don't know Bible.

Prayer Points
* Pray for better knowledge of the Bible.
* Pray for the government and politicians to make wise decisions.
* Pray for missionaries in Poland who help the poor.
* Pray for better understanding of who God is."

I think it's fairly well-written but I can't say I agree with it.

I cant understand why ppl still believe in god. I am catholic by the way but I think of it more like a story not reality. I am worried that when I go over there I will b forced to go to church and pretend so I dont offend any one. This is one thing I did not consider. These forums are preparing me well though. Could b a problem.

I have no problems here and I have met 2 priests socially, you will find that they are realistic and not willing to try and convert you, they know full well that they are going to have their work cut out hanging onto the ones who have already been brainwashed. (Oh and this is the 'Pod' where they go to church sometimes 3 times a day and several times a week.) Your big problem might be with your Polish family who would feel that their 'position' in the community is diminished if you don,t attend services. Position is very important....even more so in the villages.

Very interesting!

Do bear in mind what I said about it being more important in the villages......you may have relatives in the big towns to whom the church is not important at all and social standing is based on how you dress, car you drive etc etc.

Oh I am betting on it. I plan to employ a dozen ppl or more once its set up it will take some time. I have been in sales for 20 years. I use cars and clothes and all these phony things which ppl base their false opinions on all the time to my advantage. Its funny you should say that because one of the most important things to me is getting the right people. The wrong people are the ones that can c opportunity and thats all they care about. It will be hilarious when we turn up in jeans and shabby car and make friends and meet people but never tell them what we are doing since it will take a while to sort everything like house and many other things. That way I will find at least the key personell that I need. Those few people I will need to trust almost with my life or the business wont work. The rest can be employed normally. There will be much dissapointment I bet when they find out they were sussed out incognito and tricked by rags and a ****** car. Oh I cant wait I am very exited! We were laughing our faces off earlier talking about it and it will be even funnier if those ppl were highly qualified and missed out. What clothes should I dress in to look like avarage joe blo? What car is considered just below avarage how old what brand. The right persons will be poached easily from what I understand of you wages. My evil plan is hatching. Is may a good month to come? By the way we will be exporting and the customers I already have. I think I can make a contribution in my little way to the country. Also since my last post i have decided to find god, I will c them in church and I will sing the loudest haha. Bless you all!

Well basically you are saying that you feel wiser than people who are polite towards you and do not want to kill. rob or kick the **** out of you. You even are calling yourself a Lord. If you are not the biggest

**** taker on this side of the equator, you are the biggest moron there is.

Who cares people? All I c religion ever doing is causing arguments that's why I will just comply. You want to c people who are catholic and you want to base your assumptions on that? Thats what you r going to get. By you I mewn generic term not you guys/girls. Standard sales procedure, bring the customer what they want. In every forum ever when religion is mentioned people argue. How can this b good?

I was raised Catholic in Poland and later here in Canada.

Im not a diehard religious nutjob but I feel like the idea of God/Church is important. Church needs more power to stop the extremist liberals and commies who are growing in number (the latter groups simply dont know what morals are). Nothing ****** me off more than militant commies/athiests/anarchists.


Thats the typical Evangelical PROTESTANT nonsense. Evangelicals are simply hypocrites and most of them twist the Bible 100 times while ignoring big portions. I wouldnt even call most of them Christians but heretics and Israeli firsters.

i suppose morality to you
is the following

child abuse
tax evasion
helping war criminals escape
supporting fascist regimes

and so on

i dont remember liberals supporting any of the above

they support murderers, Communists (who killed more than the Nazis did), and men ****** another man while parading on the street, the destruction of family and traditions,

ethnicities and countries.
Its clear the liberals are more insane.

how many accounts to you have delphdope?

What I want to know is.... if I comply to get 'standing' and go along with it and than one day some one says 'you're ok and catholic too we like it' or something similar. Than I say well actually I dont believe and having religious values makes no diff to the point of me being good or bad....will they realise the same thing or feel betrayed and revert to the opinion they most likely would have had if I said it from the start? Surely not I mean the poles I know are smarter than that but they live here and their opinions r influenced by this culture. Would that make me someone who successfully demonstrated human nature irrespective of religion or does that make me a con man?

have you had sex before marriage
masturbated
used condoms

all of these things are equally bad
in the eyes of the church

one out of three isnt bad

Do you see that often? Where do you 'live'?