Are Polish Women very promiscuous towards foreigners and refugees?

That's a good question and I keep trying to "elicit" answers from you concerning that. I asked you to answer 4 simple questions twice and you ingored them every time. As we say in Poland: "Do trzech razy sztuka" lol, so I'm going to try again - could you kindly answer the following questions?:

1. How many "anti-Communist defectors (man or woman)" from Poland have you met in your life?

2. Did those defectors (and how many of them) claim that Polish women had to prostitute themselves in order to survive during communist times in Poland?

3. How common was it for Polish women to prostitute themselves to officials in order to survive during communist times according to those "defectors"? How many Polish women did that? 90%? 70%? 50%? 20%? 10%? 5%? 1%?

4. Did they give you any examples? Some real life stories? What were those?

I put those questions in bold so, hopefully, you'll notice them better this time and answer at last :)


Really, Alien? Were you born yesterday?


Don't be sorry. I personally prefer to know who I'm dealing with, what people are really like and all what Lyzko is doing is showing his true colours. It's also good to see who decided to speak up against Lyzko's claims on this thread and which PF users didn't.

In my experience they usually talk sh!te.


That's because it isn't. You're trying to argue with Polish people that live or grew up there, telling them that they don't know what they're talking about. The arrogance of it. I can see though, that you have no intention of budging an inch on this.

To be honest, you have as much knowledge about life under communism as you do of the Polish language.

...Polish people who grew up and lived there, who therefore have every reason to want to deny such every existed. How similar to those Germans who grew up right after the War and lived through Hitler, not during the late '60's. They denied that Nazi persecution of Jews was even at issue, denying the truth until the very end, yet we all know that it most horribly did exist, although we can thank our lucky stars it exists no more. The truth finally came out when their children, indeed grandchildren, eventually, if reluctantly. decided to weed out those long hidden skeletons in the closet and, as the Germans say, "reinen Tisch machen". Poles have to come clean as well.

I'd be the first to concede that the sort of things I've been posting about in all likehood no longer exist as they did in former times, I'm givin' ya that much. Now let's accept that it once did and leave it at that.

You hit yourself in the foot with this analogy- neither Paulina nor me are old enough to be from that time (which You even tried to use against us saying we wouldn't know) so we are closer to the Germans of the 60's.

Not to mention we do have extensive proof about the issue.
You do not.

@Lenka, exactly. I myself criticised my parents' generation (my own parents included) on this forum and I wondered aloud if their mentality can be attributed to the fact that they were raised in communist times. To which pawian and I think Alien responded that yes, it can be.


But... those drunk Polish women you talked to also grew up and lived in Poland during communist times... Do you think that people who grew up and lived during communist times, but stayed in Poland never get drunk? lol


But Poles don't deny the realities of communist times in Poland. On the contrary. You seem to be forgetting that the communist system was imposed on Poland, it wasn't "ours", unlike in the case of Nazi Germany. That's one of the reasons why Poles have no problem with criticising that system and the realities of those times and with pointing out and criticising any remnants of that system in Poles' mentality. Also, lots of Poles love to complain about Poland, Poles and life in general - apparently that's our "national sport" :) So you really missed the mark here :))


Oh no, no, no, no, Lyzko... You won't get it out of this so easily! :))) You still haven't answered my questions:

https://polishforums.com/life/women-promiscuous-towards-foreigners-refugees-81405/6/#msg1919195

Please answer them or I'll be free to state that you're talking out of your ass :]

How some things worked in the PRL (and for several years afterward).

In the early 90s I was visiting an American friend who was living in Warsaw and working for an agency that was ultimately funded by the Polish government. They were using a car borrowed from an expat friend and it was having problems.... rather than try their luck with a mechanic in Warsaw they approached the driver of the agency and he agreed to look at it and fix anything that he could.

He fixed it and in return my friend gave him a (relatively expensive) candy bar and he was happy.

He didn't want any money and there was simply no way he would actually look at the car for the price of the candy bar...but he did accept the candy as a kind of payment.

Why?

@maf, is that a rhetorical question or a genuine one?


*get out of this

a genuine question....what's going on in that scenario?

From Wikipedia article "Prostitution in Poland":

1) A memo from the Secretariat of the Party Central Committee (including Bolesław Bierut who was then Secretary-General), dated 23 November 1955, states that in 1949 there were 4,000 sex workers in Poland, in 1954 1,700 and that 6,000 had been arrested.

2) Data from the Ministry of the Interior, dated 9 February 1957 refer to 1,500 workers in the six major cities.

3) After the fall of the iron curtain (Żelazna kurtyna) in 1989. Changes in Polish society included increasing tourism and trade with the West, acceptability of foreign currency and expanding hotel business, all factors conducive to the growth of the sex trade. Although liable to a large error margin, estimates of the numbers of sex workers were 7,267 in 1962, and 9,847 in 1969. Sometimes referred to as "Servants of Venus" (Służebnice Wenery).

So let's assume Polish bureaucrats were hopeless liars, and that they purposefully underestimated the number of prostitutes in communist Poland by 5 times.

Poland's population in 1969 was 32.5M people. Half of them were women, or 16.25M people. Taking my 5X assumption in hand, that there were actually as many as 50,000 prostitutes, that still ends up being around 0.3% of Poland's female population. If you go by the actual statistics collected, it is 0.06%. So Paulina is being quite generous with her percentages.

@maf, was that candy bar Polish?


Well, I don't know this guy and don't know what was going on in his head, so I can only guess. He wasn't a car mechanic, so why would he take money for that? I guess he did them a favour... Maybe he was simply a nice guy. He didn't want any money, but your friend gave him something anyway, which was a nice gesture and so he appreciated it.

Also, I'm guessing foreigners/Westerners (and your friend was an American at that!) were probably still pretty rare/"exotic" for Poles in those times, so people might have been more likely to get out of their way to help them out, I think.

And if you want to look at it from the PRL perspective of some "shrewd" person, I guess - maybe he hoped that one day they'll return the favour and help him out with something too. But since he took that candy bar - such scenario seems unlikely to me.

Btw, believe it or not, there are Poles who feel nostalgic about PRL times, because, as they claim, "people were nicer back then, they were helping each other", etc.


I did add 1% option :))


Or "panie lekkich obyczajów" ;) That's how my mother called one woman who was a prostitute and got arrested and forced by the authorities to work in the factory where my mother worked during communist times (prostitution was illegal in PRL). My mother said that this woman was wearing "cat-eye" eye make-up to work (I guess that must have been pretty unusual among the female factory workers, or my mother wouldn't bring that up lol) :)

Not really, this person had been in Poland for all the martial law period (then back to the US and then back to Poland in the late 80s). Once it's clear a foreigner knows how things are done in Poland the rare/"exotic" factor wears off in a hurry.....

My analysis (and that of my friend) was that the candy bar was less 'payment' and more a sign that the work was really appreciated and he should not hesitate to ask my friend if he ever needed anything that they could do, it was a small personal touch (actually intended for the driver's child) of the kind that Polish people at the time appreciated.

Lots of examples of that kind of thing in the PRL people giving each other small tokens of appreciation (before or after favors were done) to signal a relationship that one of the parties could call upon... no person was an island then and having informal connections was important.

Tha'ts what quid pro quo looked like most of the time then, not weird fantasies about minor officials demanding sex for..... well for what, exactly? I can't figure out that part....

There were things that were better in PRL. Social life, kids clubs etc


I would say since everybody was poor such token were appreciated. How many deal were done for a coffee or bottle of vodka.

My dad bought a dig for a pack of tea.

I read that a lot of the fabric of civic life was tied up in prl institutions and the when the prl stopped... so did they, which is why for many years social clubs or neighborhood activities that are common in some other countries were so rare.

Not stopped as such but had to figure out new ways.

In my primary school we had acrobatic classes. Kids that got into the acrobatic club were receiving 10 extra hours of PE a week in school plus 5 x 1.5 hour long practices in a club for free.

Cultural clubs were accesses for peanuts etc.

Paulina,
I can understand your denying the truth. Under extreme circumstances, all of us might be forced to do things which under ordinary circumstances
would scarcely occur to the average person.

Often times, the truth can be embarrassing, indeed painful.

I can't understand you not answering her questions.

Oh, but I have.

I asked her for her "sources" and she refused and so I'm supposed to reveal mine?? Can't do business on such a basis, sorry.

You present yourself as a man of science and you want us to prove negative?
Sorry but there is no paper/book/ article :
'The history of women that didn't prostitute themselves'
'The fascinating story of women NOT selling themselves to survive'

At least they have an excuse.

What excuse do johns have?
On my island, all newspapers would be required to publish their pictures, with home address, and place of employment. Plus Facebook.

Not a single person on this thread with actual experience in Poland (including in the PRL) believes/agrees with your claim that normal women routinely prostituted themselves for favors...

You've lost. L O S T. Take the L.

You have no proof besides second hand intoxicated sources.....

The way things worked in the PRL was actually far more interesting than your weird fantasies about women so desperate for.... what exactly? That they did the deed with.... who exactly?

And the real story of prostitution in Poland in the 1990s was more interesting too... There used to be a square in town where the prostitutes hung out at night waiting for customers but eventually Polish born prostitutes lost a price war to women from the former USSR and Bulgaria.... But they disappeared from the square many years ago.

There also was the trucks prostitution.

My mum knew a prostitute that catered mostly to sailors. She always says what a nice underwear she had.


Sorry dude, nobody is interestedin your island.

Sorry, dudette, nobody is interested in a prostitute your mom knew. Or her underwear...
At least my post about methods some already used to fix things. Yours is about nothing.

BTW, how many PF posters did you interview in 40 minutes?

No, you haven't answered my 4 questions!


No, you didn't ask me for any sources, you liar!
Despite that I explained it to you anyway that life in PRL times is well documented, it's not something that happened hundreds of years ago lol There are articles, books, films, documentaries about that period and people who lived in those times share what it was like to live under communism. I also wrote to you that I can easily find you an article about prostitution during communist times in Poland, but you didn't even ask me to post a link to such article. It looks like that you're the one who doesn't want to know the truth.

Honestly, Lyzko, I didn't think that you will stoop so low and that you will resort to lying. I don't think that you realise how badly this reflects on you. And that you fail to answer my 4 questions.

You don't have to "reveal" your sources by giving names and surnames. I only asked you how many "anti-Communist defectors from Poland" you have met in your life and how many of them said what you claim they said and what they said exactly. Why won't you answer that?

Lyzko, answer my 4 questions or you will compromise yourself completely:

https://polishforums.com/life/women-promiscuous-towards-foreigners-refugees-81405/6/#msg1919195


Exactly. We shouldn't be forced to "prove" the negative in the first place. He made those claims and so it's on him to back them up with something. He could at least answer my 4 questions about how many Poles told him what exactly, but it looks like he isn't capable of answering even such simple questions.

I'm starting to suspect that Lyzko's only source were those drunk women he probably met one evening (and that's why he doesn't want to "reveal his sources", because that's all he has - those drunk women) and we don't even know what they told him exactly either.

Lyzko knows that he lost because he has no idea what life was like in those years. What he is doing now is trying to win as much as possible for himself in the ongoing negotiations. By stubbornly repeating his theses, he hopes to tire the other side and and giving him at least a partial reason (which he does not have) to come out of this conflict with honor. Otherwise, he would have to surrender unconditionally

Tirówki!

Now I'm thinking that there's a niche market for a certain type of.... adult film....

Picture it!

DANUTA! She-wolf of Społem! The ruthless manager of a PRL store she demands (and receives) sexual favors from staff and customers alike...

taglines: If you want meat.... you can only get it _under_ counter!

Welcome to Danuta's her motto is 'meat for meat!'

Here's a picture of savage seductress!

• 
  dan2.jpg
  

In glorious and civilized America, truck stop prostitution flourishes. Rather than something nice like "Tirowki", they are called the decidedly unglamorous name of "Lot Lizards". I hope in his next life Lyzko can be a "Lot Lizard" at a Flying J in West Virginia, and carry on his sociological studies from that vantage point.

Also in the moral capital of the world, hundreds of thousands of people stream their assh0les to strangers over the Internet for money. But here we are, discussing Poles trading sex for butter.

In Danuta's store.... her motto is "You have to use butter to get butter!"

someone stop me....

In Danuta's store....Oleo butter substitute was a much cheaper spread.

and so was Danuta!

Why so defensive here, people?

I freely admit unflattering aspects of the US, among others, what American GI's did to German women after the War aka RAPE, albeit not in huge numbers, I'd imagine.

Highly embarrassing, indeed, shameful....but nonetheless true.