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Why do so many Polish strive to be accepted by the West?


Ironside 50 | 11,055
12 Dec 2017 #31
As for Russia being more spiritual than the west i have never noticed that on my visits.

what do you mean? they drink sprits in greater quantity. They are more spiritual no two ways about it.

Ask anyone who travelled to Asia and saw how happy people were there

Sure very happy. You should move there - The North Korea would do just fine. Happy happy people.

Russia is Russia with European like face courtesy of Peter the Great. No bridges here just pits.
Ironside 50 | 11,055
12 Dec 2017 #32
one which is truly allies

should be a one which is truly alien to Poland.

China is more powerful than Russia

True, and both strive for domination although that is secondary to their hate and fear of the USA. China I can understand but Russia is historically out of touch with their ant-usa stance. Unless they are looking for power to confront china in accusing eastern Europe again, Obama's policies were giving them hope that USA's power is on a wane.
Crow 147 | 9,316
12 Dec 2017 #33
Question of this thread, fortunately, slowly but surely, becoming question of past times. It was not only question for Poland but for entire Eastern Europe. But, we Sarmatians now coming to ourselves and returning to our original family and generally life values, as best for us. Its because we are sane and God loves us.
kaprys 3 | 2,511
12 Dec 2017 #34
@NoToForeigners
What kind of cooperation do you have in mind?
As for the trade, they keep coming up with new sanctions. Not to mention, we just need to be independent as far as their gas is concerned. Otherwise, we're screwed.

@Ktos
I used to live in the UK. I know what it's like. Even with the lowest wages, you live better than in Poland with the lowest wages. And I'm talking about Poland in the 2000s not during the Communist rule when even the toilet paper was one of the luxury goods.

You say I'm focusing on the bad sides of communism, what were the good sides? Everybody had a job? True. Still their standard of living was really bad unless you were a party member. If they went on strike, how did end? GdaƄsk 1970 and the militia shooting at civilians who went on strike'cause they had no money to buy food for Christmas.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
12 Dec 2017 #35
You say I'm focusing on the bad sides of communism, what were the good sides?

Now now. Some families lived very well during that time, which explains their anger and rage towards the post-1989 system. I'd mention names, but it's probably a bad idea these days.
Lyzko 30 | 7,378
12 Dec 2017 #36
If Poland drifts even further from Western aka democratic values, it will drive itself into the ground! As a Polish acquaintance of ours said several years ago after the PiS got elected, "Poland has re-elected the same party which nearly destroyed our country during the '90's."
Ironside 50 | 11,055
12 Dec 2017 #37
Some families lived very well during that time, which explains their anger and rage towards the post-1989 system

Do you really believe in what you saying or you're just being deliberately obtuse because you aim at derailing this thread?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
12 Dec 2017 #38
I believe entirely what I'm saying.

You always seem to take it somewhat...personally whenever this point gets brought up.
SigSauer 4 | 413
13 Dec 2017 #39
I'm so confused, earlier you said anyone associated with communism needs to be banned from public life. Now you're saying some people lived quite well, were you being sarcastic in reference to the way party members lived in contrast to the vast majority of people whom they oppressed and made live in squalor?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,714
13 Dec 2017 #40
Sig most people were involved in the commie system in one form.or another. Yes a lot pushed for the overthrow of Moscow's influence but nonetheless if you were involved in business you had to pay bribes to cops or agents. People.who were in the military politics or worked in the state corporations had to be pzpr members if they ever wished to move their careers up. A lot of the company managers were able to basically sell jobs and stuff the factory made plus during the transition many of those people and politicians were able to.get factories offices real estate super cheap. There's been big push to expose all this and kick the commies out of politics. However po blocks it all.the time and has for over 10 years. That's why pis is fighting two fronts - those traitors along with Brussels eu and their allies
OP Ktos 17 | 456
13 Dec 2017 #41
I used to live in the UK. I know what it's like. Even with the lowest wages, you live better than in Poland with the lowest wages

You make the same mistake most Polish make: concentrating on wages alone. Wages are one thing and expenses are another. Average Westerner lives in debt, the culture promotes holidays making people spend money they don't have, it's all on credit card. Western culture is a culture of banks and insurances. Everyone is in debt. Polish people have not learned this yet. We are more careful not to entangle ourselves in the bank's greedy net. That way, we can spend more on presents, clothes, food, more expensive gifts (those who can), we often spend our whole monthly savings on parties but without getting into a debt. This is a more relaxed way of living. I am talking about everyday people. Of course, Poland is poor or poorer than Western countries even though Its economy is growing faster than many Western European countries, we are still poorer and so we have more economic problems - a lot due to foreign wrong interferences. Despite this, Polish lifestyle is much healthier than Western lifestyle. If you want to buy a house in the West, your life becomes full of constant worry and stress. Like I mentioned, the West is not the paradise many Polish envision It to be.
OP Ktos 17 | 456
13 Dec 2017 #42
what do you mean? they drink sprits in greater quantity. They are more spiritual no two ways about it.

You have unhealthy hatred for Russia, you are a brainwashed someone who rhymes with that hair ingredient present in every shampoo. You despise Russia and in doing so you fall victim of the constant propaganda instigated by the West to ensure that Poland remains hostile towards Russia and Russian people. It is in the interest of the West to have Poland on Its side in a "fight" against Russia. You are too blind to see it though. Besides, Russians are Slavs just like us.

Sure very happy. You should move there - The North Korea would do just fine. Happy happy people.

Do you know anything about North Korea apart from knowledge gathered from populist private, usually Westernised media? You only support PiS because you are an obsessed Christian, you are not very patriotic. Poland is more than just a religion and true patriot looks at our country from different angles and admires it for many things. Too bad North Korea is not a Christian or Catholic country, you would praise It then for eternity. I am Catholic but I embrace Russia and North Korea as their plight is and struggle aganist the West sometimes resembles our current and past struggles with the West.
kaprys 3 | 2,511
13 Dec 2017 #43
Aren't you yourself biased against the West?
I was talking about the quality of life. The minimum wage in the UK lets you buy more than the minimum wage in Poland.

What is there about Russia or North Korea that we should aspire for?

Poles don't live in debt? I'm afraid I have a mortgage to pay. So do most of my friends. None of us spends our monthly wages on parties.

But well, I come from an average family. Perhaps you're simply richer ;)
SigSauer 4 | 413
13 Dec 2017 #44
@Ktos

No, it's not propaganda. I lived in a country being invaded by Russians, I had friends killed by Russians, and my friends mother had her apartment destroyed by an MLRS (multiple launch rocket system) with an 85km range, never exported by Russia in the town of Kramatorsk. They are NOT Slavs, they're Mongols, descendants of Ghengis Khan. Stop talking bollocks. Russians are a parasite on humanity, a virus. They would just as soon subjugate Poland again, and make every Pole a subservient vassal to Russia, if not for NATO. That is a FACT. For you to speak otherwise shows the effect Russian propaganda is having on YOU. It's an affront to decency that any Pole would speak this warmly about Russians. They are scum.
NoToForeigners 10 | 1,049
13 Dec 2017 #45
They are scum

I knew a few and they were good people.
Ironside 50 | 11,055
13 Dec 2017 #46
You have unhealthy hatred for Russia

I don't have hatred for Russia. I understand Russia much better than you. I understand their language. I understand their politick and I understand their history. As for Russians being Slavs it means less than nothing. It is not about individual Russian. That about their state and their policy - as they have no society, not in a western civilization sense, not in the eastern sense.

Do you know anything about North Korea

I know more than enough. If you cannot distinguish between propaganda and facts you are lost.
You what?
You embrace Russian and NK in their struggles against the west? lol! Grow up and we'll talk then. I heard about people like you but never have met one of your few silly boys - who think that they got the holly grail of wisdom. By the way a half of your mates are most likely on Russian pay.
johnny reb 29 | 5,417
13 Dec 2017 #47
the West is not the paradise many Polish envision It to be.

That is because freedom is not free.
People in America pay dearly for it yet the sad part is that we are losing these freedoms slowly as the price continues to snowball because of exactly what you said, GREED !

Poles don't live in debt?

Not like Americans are allowed to do.
Most Americans are living in debt, ($8,000 on average per house hold) living paycheck to mouth yet keep right on living beyond their means.
The difference is that people in Poland know how to live on a dime if they have to and the people in America have no self control to budget because again like you said, just put it on a credit card with no intentions of paying it back.

When things hit a dead end they declare bankruptcy or debt relief which clears their HUGE debt and after seven years the debt is forgiven leaving their debt for the responsible people to pay for and they start all over again spending money that they do not have again.

There is more student loan debt in America ($1.4 TRILLION) then there is credit card debt ($1 TRILLION) which proves your point Ktos of what America has become.

To make a long story shorter I will put it into perspective.......Poland's Nation debt as a nation is 75% less then just the car loans alone in America.

Anyone know Poland's National debt ?
Like Adrian said, once the U.S.D. gets devaluated by another world currency America will be in for a very rude awakening.
Once the tide goes out we will see all those who are swimming naked.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,714
13 Dec 2017 #48
Like Adrian said, once the U.S.D. gets devaluated by another world currency America will be in for a very rude awakening.

Its already happening - just a matter of time. China and Russia are wisely working on a basket currency that will be backed by gold. Over 20k tons of gold were exchanged last year - most of it going from the west to the east -Middle East, China, Russia, India, etc.

And no.... Poles DO NOT strive to be accepted by the West - we actually don't care. Even amongst Polonia living abroad, the FOBs and 1st gens tend to stick around each other. They keep their traditions and don't give it up and become totally Americanized. Most immigrants even send their kids to Polish language schools. Even for xmas we follow the Wigilia traditions and everything. We emulate the West in terms of music, movies, fashion, cars, etc. but our society is much more traditional and conservative than the US/UK/Germany/etc. And even like Polish rap which obviously is a copy of Western music - rap being the most popular among youth - is still sung in Polish and has a smaller following than say like electronica amongst Polish youth. Most Poles enjoy American movies and TV shows, but they still love their Polish ones which are just as good if not better. Also, Poland has a lot of copies of western stuff especially the reality shows, singing and talent series, etc.
SigSauer 4 | 413
13 Dec 2017 #49
@Ironside

Right, the naivety of those statements which are not based in reality, by someone who clearly has no formal education on the topic of those systems of governance, and is completely uninformed is laughable. Nor will I listen to someone tell me about Russians when they haven't lived with them, and they don't speak the language. Not that that should be the litmus test, but certainly I trust my assessment over someone who has not ever had to live under a Russian invasion, and live through Russian terrorism. In 2015 I had a car bomb go off on the opposite end of my street and kill a journalist, a present from Boris. Russians are Mongols, as evidenced by Putin's beady little Asian eyes.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,714
13 Dec 2017 #50
Despite this, Polish lifestyle is much healthier than Western lifestyle. If you want to buy a house in the West, your life becomes full of constant worry and stress

Absolutely... especially if you live in a city run by leftists and you have to pay over 10 grand a year on a house worth 250k-500k, 15k-25k for 500k-1mil. It's ridiculous. In Poland is a couple hundred to a grand. In Poland, a person can buy a home and not have to spend their whole live trying to just make the mortgage and tax payments. Plus, the cost of living like food, transport, etc. is way cheaper. Only luxury imports and gasoline cost more.

Also, in PL you don't have to deal with all the BS in the west and don't have to worry about crime, terror, rapes, shootings, ridiculous traffic and pollution, etc.
idem - | 135
13 Dec 2017 #51
. Westerners think that they are the world's pioneers in terms of ethics, life style, finances and in general every aspect of human behaviour.

I would change your question 'Why did so many Polish strive to be accepted by the West'- We did it in the past maybe because it was this 'unknown paradise land' but after Iron Curtain dropped and Polish travel much more this desire is disappearing.

With sure our government tries to....but it is all about money,. business, politics, diplomacy.....

I have just come back from Poland and in one point you are correct - We seem to be copying or buying so many awful sh...ty shows/programs from the west and that is I don't know why.....
smsmsksks
14 Dec 2017 #52
I agree with this author compl telt. aive been to feminist west and usa. and all thy do is lock you up throw away the key and keep you in prisons or rehabs or jails for simply looking or acting different thans tatus quo there. if youre white in Umerica and you dont act like one of thsoe pussified girlymen there whog et punked by blacks and hispanics dsily youre automatically thrown in a prison even for defending yourself. have you ever hewrd about their three strike laws. watch a recent movie called shot caller or skazany youc an watxh it free online on bobmovies. it shows what that country or california is really like. what the west really is like there.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,714
14 Dec 2017 #53
Dude u were in California the most far left liberal commie state in the us.. The Midwest south and even east coast is nothing like that. U should've moved to Chicago or NYC it's a lot different than California. **** CA even Colorado is better.
johnny reb 29 | 5,417
14 Dec 2017 #54
youre automatically thrown in a prison even for defending yourself.

Except the way the police report reads is that you blind sided the guy by glassing him.
Hardly what one would call defending yourself.
Back on topic however...........
I personally don't think the majority of Poles strive to be accepted by the West, quite the opposite.
Poles are very proud of their won culture far more than most countries so they could give a patute what the West thought.
OP Ktos 17 | 456
17 Dec 2017 #55
@idem

Yep, it is about money, but if Japan and Korea can maintain their Asian specific cultures so can we maintains ours, capitalism will change us, but we could slow it down. You say we used strive to be like Westerners, well I agree that a lot of it is in the past, but sometimes we copy the West without realising it. The differences between Poland and West should therefore be accentuated in our society as much as possible without the accompanying slender of everything that is Polish, without the Tusk's infamous words: "Polskosc to nienormalnosc".
JedenCzlowiek - | 4
17 Dec 2017 #56
"Except the way the police report reads is that you blind sided the guy by glassing him.
Hardly what one would call defending yourself."

You havent read the police report unless Adrian shared it with you? but i doub it cause that would make him a snitch. and answering that you cans ay what george zimmermen did was hardly defending himself either and he did much worse and for much less of a reason. So how do you respond to that? Id really like to know about your ewuality laws or fairness here from your great land you come from that is so equal for all.
pawian 176 | 15,325
18 Mar 2020 #57
Why do so many Polish strive to be accepted by the West?

Because they are West Slavs? Such origin certainly obliges people to do certain things in life, doesn`t it?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Slavs


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