Racism and for what? (story of Egyptian guy's living in Poland)

Racism is never part of the 'natural order of things'. It is an abomination and an entirely artificial construct.

racism is learned.

Interesting. I'm there now (where everybody except official visitors and diplomats are the same race). Perhaps you can tell us (ideally without being abusive, if you can manage that) why you think racism is "part of the natural order of things".

Well, if you're in Sudan it is obvious you're in Sudan on planet Mars or planet Mercury, not the one on planet Earth.

1 minute of google-search brings this: csmonitor.com/2004/0714/p09s02-coop.html

Care to explain why did you just claim that "everyone in Sudan is of the same race"?

Somehow I knew you wouldn't be able to try to make a point without being abusive. It was too much to hope for otherwise.

The Sudanese are all Africans. Some are linguistically and culturally Arabised - indeed this was a forced policy from the 1970s until quite recently - but still the same race. Don't believe what you can copy and paste from the internet. Here in Khartoum in North Sudan, the people are all black Africans.

Again, perhaps you can tell us (ideally without being abusive, if you can manage that) why you think racism is "part of the natural order of things".

Sure, they just all conspired against you and you're the guy who's got the real scoop, after all you're the one in Sudan right now.

More articles:

repository.berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/110523Sudan%5BFINAL%5D.pdf


OMG, someone let Georgetown know they got it all wrong, there is only one race is Sudan.

oneworld-publications.com/pdfs/Sudan_SP.pdf


Guy who wrote the book a bit from which I quoted above is a bloody professor of history at Loyola Marymount, L.A. and happens to have been born in Sudan:

mediaresearchhub.ssrc.org/jok-madut-jok/person_view

Again, someone should tell him he's making this stuff about Sudan being biracial and in conflict over racial issues up, I mean it could affect his future in academia if anyone finds out.

Johnny, you've been talking about things you haven't got a slightest idea about all day long today in this thread and this last bit of yours about there supposedly being only one race in Sudan proves it.

Unless you're younger than 15 I suggest you get some education before talking about such things in the future.

They didn't conspire against me or indeed anyone. Just oversimplified the issue. Arab can be (and is here) a cultural identity rather than a merely racial one. There are black Arabs. Do you really think the Ansari Nuba are a different race to the Neur?

I knew you wouldn't be able to manage it without being abusive. But yes - all Sudanese are Africans, one race, one colour.

But this is a side issue since you're deliberately trying to evade the question: why you think racism is "part of the natural order of things".

So basically you're saying that you know better than a guy who's been born in Sudan, is an assistant professor and dedicated his all academic life towards researching the subject?

Since laws of probability point towards him being right and you talking nonsense again I will not discuss it further, my point has been proven and arguing with you right now is like talking to a spoiled 5 year old. You think you know better. Everyone whose brain works on logic pretty much noticed that you don't have a clue.


Nope, it is an important issue since it proves that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

Next thing we know you'll be telling us how to build atom bombs, because you're a nuclear physicist working in a secret facility in New Mexico, 50 feet underground.


Quit putting words in my mouth or quoting me out of context, boy.

What I wrote was:


And I stand by that statement.

The broadly defined Western-European culture seems to be the only one that badly interested in exploring and fighting against racism. We're the ones commissioning studies, we're the ones creating policies etc.

For the Japanese, let's use this example, the gajin/non-gajin differentiation is exactly what most of them consider "the norm".

Still abusive I see. I've noticed that before when you start an argument then lose it. In the long run it doesn't work.


Unfortunately for you, it hasn't. Just trolling and introducing side issues to distract.


No, but I am an official guest of the Sudanese government for professional reasons to do the petroleum industry, recently split between North and South so I flatter myself that I know what I'm talking about in this matter and don't have to rely on second-hand sources.


There's a reason for that - the Western Europeans and their white American counterparts are the most guilty of racism on a global level.

So why do you think that "racism is part of the natural order of things"?

Kettle to pot... copy?


Still doesn't make you any smarter than a Sudanese Professor of History at an established University.

Of course, you're entitled to think you know it all, still acting like that just makes you look an idiot.


And here's an even better reason:

We give a ****.

Other cultures, very often dominated/created by people with not-so-white skin, don't.

But I don't expect a guy who missed the race-based conflict in Sudan while supposedly being there to understand that :-)


I guess I'll have to repeat:

Quit putting words in my mouth or quoting me out of context, boy.

Historically yes and today maybe.

Yes, you are trolling. And rather weak rhetorical practice that doesn't work.


It does however mean I know rather more than someone who is just cutting and pasting out of context. Who thinks arabised blacks aren't black!


So you're suggesting suggesting that people who are black - or, in your words "Other cultures, very often dominated/created by people with not-so-white skin" don't "give a ****" about racism?


Stop trolling, and no putting words in your mouth. To clarify things, just so you can't say you're being misquoted and then get all abusive, do you think that racism is in every circumstance an abomination? Or not?

Midas,

Please adjust your tone when writing on the forum. Thank you.

Pot calling kettle.


Your words are in direct contradiction with established academic sources. They claim that there's a biracial nation and a conflict along the lines of race, not religion in Sudan. You say there is one race in Sudan. Hence in my book - you're most likely an undereducated guy talking about stuff you know little about and the academic sources are right.

But everyone is free to reach their own opinion, enough material has been provided.


I'll put it this way.

If You happen to be black and got turned away from a nightclub door in Tokyo with the bouncers saying some racially-charged words then good luck with your lawsuit.


Racism is an abomination. People of all shapes, sizes and colors can be racists. Racism isn't something that only white people are capable of.


Why, with pleasure. While we're at it, hope Johnny's bit about my supposedly "limited intellect" that got me a bit stingy won't go unnoticed as well.

But not in contradiction with my own direct and current experience.


No they don't. They talk about Arab and African Sudanese. The same race, the same colour, the same people. Your sources do not say they are different races. They are all black. But this is a distraction.


Now for what reason/s am I in a position to be invited here by the government, I wonder... But again, this is a distraction.


You'd actually be surprised. There have been some well publicised discrimination cases in Japan.


I'm glad to hear you say that.


But which race have been responsible for the most dramatic and noticeable racism on a global scale?

show me a country excluded from such phenomena .....

^
I guess that's a true contradiction. However, I won't judge the Poles too harshly on this. Unemployment is still high, wages are not keeping up with inflation and the social infrastructure is still a beast. To welcome outsiders who are seen as likely coming to milk the system would be asking too much imo.

i keept watching how you talk and trait others , being rude with people and with me , not respecting my feelings of what i get throw or even respect people who just doing nothings more than politely sharing the discussion , some how like you want to force people to accept only your ideas and you are the only one who have education and knowledge about everythings ! you even didnt respect religions and involve and insult mine by saying to me (muslim male BS.) why you connect things to religion in time am human sharing his story with normal people.

You have been rude with people who even tried to share the discussion like forcing them to accept that you are the only one who know everythings.

Thin you start to try to sow or Growing hostility by talking about Christians and muslims !
Midas : (Doesn't change a thing though - **** happens and the guy, being egyptian, really shouldn't be doing the preaching over here. )
being racist as am Egyptian I should not be in polish forum even am living here .
I was born in saudi Arabia the city of al Khubar and lived in Dubai and thin I returns back to my country and you know what we trait foreigners so much better than we do even with each others and they take the best of what we have ..

And I was working in tourism sector in Hurghada and sharm .. do you know how many foreigners working their .. how many Polish your leaders or tour guides or working in hotels or in tourism sector or real state .. try to search on google and find out !! so don’t talk about it like we don’t trait foreigners good .. again I understand your natural hate and I will tell you why !!

being rude with everybody who is not accepting or just say yes to everythings to says like you are the only person who know everythings , and thin telling me that am lastperson who should speak .. well I know why all this natural hate inside your heart , one word you say it and I had the answers for everythings you says … your Jews – israili ! you are the LAST person on earth should talk about peace or respect or even humanity for godsake!!

Occupation other people countries , killing children and women’s and you come here to tell me or teach me if I should be the last person to talk or not , and all of this just just because I wanted to talk with some nice polish people to know more about what happened to me!!

This is the links and hundred of it , look what Jews do to womens and kids :
Look and remember who you are thin come here to talk evenabout humanity !!!

- youtube.com/watch?v=wr2oyODxyKo
- Jews Killing an arab family were sunbathing on beach : youtube.com/watch?v=SlqbwwxGKdM&feature=related
- Don’t talk about Arab this is what foreigner soldiers do there with teenage youtube.com/watch?v=V-wUn680R9w&feature=related
- And don’t you ever mention about christian in our countries cuz they are been treated better than we trait each others , you will talk about Christians!! For godsake . you forgot what you Jews did and doing to Christians !! look what you Jews do to Christian in Palestine youtube.com/watch?v=irIXIy6hNc8

- This is the Christian you are talking about in Egypt or news and tv reporters are blind and you have something different than all of them youtube.com/watch?v=pOTsb5-PCxM&feature=related

- youtube.com/watch?v=VDsgI17kiH0
- And you know what its not about you don’t know anythings , na .. you know everythings but you just try to change facts .. facts that the previous government were doing this by the hands of the police minister to keep his chair and his job by saying there is problems we have rights to catch people or do what ever.

- Polish in Egypt :youtube.com/watch?v=675wCDVFeWE
- Schools were made specially for Polish Kids in Gulf countries and Dubai youtube.com/watch?v=cL41oajGVXE and read the comment of Polish people who lives in arab and Muslim countries .

- This is one of the western commercials ! I hope you can answer the question on it youtube.com/watch?v=XS40-IB1aog&feature=related

- Maybe you would be interested to read this book as well : biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm (protocols of the elders of zion and Jews )
- SO CLOSE YOUR MOUTH AND SAY NOTHINGS MORE ..
- You didn’t want even to accept that there is polish people were in arab countries and African and they tried to make you understand that what you are saying is wrong but you did not accept even to talk unless with rude with them and all of this for what .. just cuz I was a victim of racist !! .

- Last words is for those respectful polish and noon polish who shared the conversation with discussion with nice respected way , Pip , JonnyM and others thanks sou for the nice words that made me feel there is still nice god people live In this world am getting over what happened to me and with the love of my wife I will be able to keep going .. thanks for everybody ..

- ell

Great.....lots of video's showing crimes against muslims.

If I could be bothered i'd return in kind, but I can't be bothered.

How many Polish people are in Al-Qaeda??

How many Egyptians are in Al-Qaeda??

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Egyptian_al-Qaeda_members

You come on here pointing the finger and deriding the Polish and yet your country is guilty of worse.

To quote you.....

SLIGHTLY misrepresenting the issue here...


Well that old chestnut. "Oh your system is bad is it? Why don't you get lost?" Way to answer the question foreigner4 - well, he leaves the country and your system still sucks. Oh I get it - I can go back to my country too lololol


Oh ha ha ha are you serious? Try typing 'Egypt' into google instead for a more reasonable test

[quote=woodgey]Oh ha ha ha are you serious? Try typing 'Egypt' into google instead for a more reasonable test[/qoute]

No you're right.

Lets do it this way then....

Enter Polish burn christian in google then enter egyptian burn christian and compare the results.

That's a fairer comparison, no?

As I say, easy to come onto a public forum and conclude that Poland is not........ "a modern country with open brains (sic) and and great culture and open minded for other cultures around the world" when his own country has a history of terrible crimes against its own people and visitors to its country.....Luxor as an example.

The truth is the vast majority of Pole's wouldn't give two shites about him and would barely afford him the brain space to formulate an opinion of him.

One incident and the whole of Poland is labelled. He's an idiot!!

EdWilczynski , am polish married to Egyptian. 1st i dont understand the guy he said he had a racism problem and its horebole EdWilczynski , and i no not all polish will not give him a dam care . there is polish will as me and sure lot of my friends will also care and the idiot is only YOU and people who is racist and those who did that to him , the guy spook about somthing clear about a story and i dont know why you and that other person mid attacking him for what! just say nice words and stop being arrogant and talk like he dont worth living we both are polish and we know what kind of problems we have in here even i think you are living abraod poland

I have a huge issue with Poles that live outside of Poland yet have a double standard with others immigrating to Poland.

I have a story for you.

Friday night I was at a party. A bunch of us were sitting around a table chatting. This one girl, clearly Poland B, was chatting how she doesn't like Arabs. They stink she said. I looked at her and I said in English "This is fcuking sh*t" It was awkward to say the least- I don't think she had a clue however- she was very stupid. So later that evening I was talking to my friends how I was really pissed that she said this. My friend actually talked me down saying this girl is young and stupid and she hasn't been outside of Warsaw- don't worry about it. Not all Polish people think this.

The point is- some people are stupid. And sometimes we have the unfortunate occurrance of running into one or a few of them.

I find that in Warsaw there are a lot of stupids because there is a lot of Poland B here- villagers who have flocked to the city after the war. I don't have a problem with Poland B but I do have a problem with stupidity and deciding you are better because your skin is lighter.

It wasn't that long ago that Germans thought that all Slavs were 2nd to the Arian race- perhaps this should be remembered.

And that shows you what, exactly? Jesus, I hope you don't have a degree...lolz

i lived in poland for 1 and hlaf year with my husband about 4 years ago in city name as i remember poznan - am from the netherland and i only want to say my openion nothings more and am not on some one side - it is just my openion that the egyptian guy didnt say somthing wrong and he did not deriding polish and he didnt even start his talking about religon - i readed all the postes and am so sorry to say while i was living in Poland and am white by the way but honestly i feel that Polish not all of them for sure but many of them still have diffecultly to accept other cultures - its only openion no harm for any side maybe here in Netherland we get used on them i mean diffrent cultures and they start to be part of our community - i wish you all peace

Why exactly would I need one of them?

You stick to you meagre earnings teaching English and i'll stick to my earnings through my chosen profession without a degree.....Lolz

^
Polish people can think and say whatever they want in their own country.
E.g. If someone doesn't like the smell of another person then that's their prerogative.
What annoys me no end are native speakers not fit to do sfa in their own country who come here and try to make like they're enlightened above their poor Polish cousins on all things political and social. It's always the ones that have been here for the short term...

You would like to kill them all, you little Hitler, don't you?

actually I would like to educate them all.


If you are making reference to me- I speak Polish. All my friends are Polish. I have lived here for 9 years-I am a permanent resident. My kids are Polish, my husband is Polish. I believe I have a right to say what my opinion is- and make an observation based on the amount of time I have lived here and my experiences with the general population.

One at a time:

Johnnym:


Which parts of:

biracial nation. and Race - not religion - is the fundamental fault line in Sudan,

are hard to understand?

I'm sorry - I quoted a professor from Loyola Marymount who is Sudanese, has a dozen or so publications, specializes in these issues and has built an academic career around this.

All you did was say was that you've been around and know better than the guy.

Here's a few more quotes from his book:

Black, non-muslim Sudanese:


Black Sudanese:


Care to elaborate more about how they're supposedly not talking about race and skin color? Apparently now you also know this stuff better than the Sudanese people themselves.

Hence if you're really in Sudan, please be so kind and climb on a tall building or something, grab the microphone and tell them guys that they're wrong, they're all of one race and thus there's no reason to fight. I'm sure they'll understand and you'll get a Nobel Peace Prize out of the deal.

woodgey


Sure.

I mean rapes like that of Lara Logan happen in most European states every other weekend. Polish males, they usually go apeshit crazy if in a given month they fail to gang-rape a woman of another race. <strong sarcasm>

Here's the link to what Lara said publicly about the ordeal: cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7364550n

What she says makes my stomach crawl. People ( more than a 100 egyptian males participated ) who did this to her are savages and should end up in prison until the end of their days.

If you tolerate or in any way defend such behaviour ( "mispresenting the issue" ) I have nothing to say to you, because you're quite simply not human. You're just the type of guy who'd gladly say Poland is racist when one egyptian gets his teeth knocked out over there, yet you will still label egypt a tolerant paradise while they tolerate such savage crimes as the one that was committed on Lara Logan.

And yes, as long as Egypt tolerates such behaviour ( haven't heard anything about anyone being caught or sentenced in the case ) egyptians don't really have much of a right to complain about other people being racist to them. She got raped because she was white, American and pretty. Period.

Beata_Fattah

Madam, please learn to spell in English or at least use google translate. I will not reply to any of your posts until they're at least semi-readable.

pip


An issue that in any way, shape or form doesn't affect people of other race/nationality, of course. I mean, I've never seen an arab live a double life ( different behaviour in London, different in Saudi Arabia ) <sarcasm>


Is there any moral to the story? Apart from the fact that you can be rude and condescending to people publicly?

Regardless whether this girl was from Poland B, C or D and whether she was educated or stupid she has the right to her own opinions.

I take it you're the kind of Polish lady that got hooked up with a foreigner and hence considers herself a worldly woman. Fact check, madam, it doesn't work that way.

ell

First, there's the English issue. As with beata_fattah, please be so kind and actually try to use proper English why you post here. You claim to be an educated man, I don't think it should be that much of a problem.


Or what?

You'll call the religious police or try to have me stoned/shot for being a Jew and having a different opinion? Most of us here are from a European background, so this isn't going to fly.


I quoted academic sources on Sudan, so I guess you can accuse them of sowing hostility. The Sudanese professor I quoted might be muslim for all I know, which makes your statement even more ludicrous.


Again, you are being kind enough to treat Us like donkeys and feed us complete BS:

Migrant workers in Saudi Arabia and Dubai ( usually of Indian or Bangladeshi origin ) constantly complain about discrimination, it is a commonly known fact.


Obviously, while doing real estate deals I constantly bump into Polish people who earned the first measly few million zlotys to start up in the business by way of being tour guides in Hurghada <strong sarcasm>

You have to employ Polish, because Polish tourists are bringing in the money, so it is not like you're doing anyone a favour. Sharm and Hurghada would be much worse off without Eastern European money.


Yes, yes, the evil, abominable Jews.

Change the tape, I've heard this one a dozen times.


I'm afraid you missed this one: jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?ID=198286&R=R1

Apparently our latest tactic in combating the egyptian menace has something to do with training sharks. Good things we haven't started to equip sharks with laser cannons and torpedoes, I mean think about the damage...

My message to you is simple - if Poland is such a terrible racist hellhole that you make it to be, please take your "lovely wife" and go live in egypt. I'm sure there's plenty of careers over there in which both of you can flourish. A simple, elegant solution.