Professional feminists' of Poland meet-up

The examples given in the column you've linked to are grossly unrepresentative of feminism as a whole. The majority of feminists are straight women who love men and are, or might wish to become, mothers. They just want to be treated with respect, to have equal access to education and other public services, to have equal salaries and promotion rights at work, and not to have to compromise their careers or economic independence if they have children.

The overriding message from some people on this thread has been that the women's congress in Poland is a bad thing, and that Polish women should have nothing to do with it. I don't know whether it is guilty of any of the alleged man-hating activities mentioned in the Renew America blog - I doubt it - but if it is, surely it would be better to encourage as many women as possible to get involved, to steer the organisation to be representative of what most Polish women want?

When I read some comments here it actually makes me a radical feminist.
Like when today one article on onet about tram accident especially elaborated that the women were driving. Not even that "Panie motornicze" or something like that but separate sentence "Both trams were driven by women". I wonder if they emphasized it that way if it was about men.

Lenka, you have to remember that to certain posters you are a radical feminist: you are not pregnant, barefoot and in the kitchen.

Sadly, I'm no longer young :-(. I too have been in business and in my experience if a woman confronts a man about sexism, it's probably because he has been guilty of sexist behaviour, and not because he is male. Just sayin'.


I accept that some advertising uses anti-male humour to flatter female consumers. But the fact that they can do this with credibility surely highlights the bigger point, which is that men still oppress women.

In contrast, there is a huge amount of advertising that tries to make women feel insecure about their bodies if they don't look a certain way, or about their skills as wives or mothers.

lol that was my line!
I stole it off this vile old Afrikaaner who used to say it a lot...'Woman should be ....etc etc' - (note the singular....) - try saying it with a thick Afrikaans accent....

Rates of physical partner violence victimization are higher among gay men than heterosexual men.2, 4

sp2.upenn.edu/ortner/docs/factsheet_ipvinsamesexrelationships.pdf

^ So what? Even if that was true, your laughable claim is still just a lie.

ur dinner is in the dog darling!

" It's important to remember that feminism is no longer a group of organizations or leaders. It's the expectations that parents have for their daughters, and their sons, too. It's the way we talk about and treat one another. It's who makes the money and who makes the compromises and who makes the dinner. It's a state of mind. It's the way we live now. "

Sorry Zimmy, you are dead wrong on your last point. The percentage of Ads or shows that show a hapless male losing against a superior female equal are like a drop in the ocean. More often they are victim to "uberkids".

With exception of cable channel late night occasional plugs; I see more ads about diet pills for dogs that things saying:
"Hey dude...how about that ugly paunch you picked up over the years? Johnny Praig weight loss gyms can HELP you get that summer body you always dreamed of!"

"Did you order your balls salty with cheese? No? Use Winter's Morn male freshing product for those days that ape rotting in sun smell is not going to cut it"

"Seeping prostate? Wear Bob's sanitary pads for that shower fresh feel"
"Daaad... I cant get this condom on right!## Well son, that is because you are undersize...you need to use Trojan Juniors....prevents slippage!## THANKS Dad!" Trojan Juniors-for when 4 inches is the best you can bring up"

Oh and lets not forget balding... Yes previous generations of women were raised to expect your man will likely lose his hair by the time he is 50. But fok man.. at 20?It is not beautiful ..it is simply accepted.

And man boobs... If women have to upsize theirs... men should be pressured to remove those!
And men do not age better than women.. the standards just haven't punished them yet.
Mouth lines, hounds frown and crows feet was manly... yeah if you work outdoors all day farming.. otherwise you are looking like an old hack dude!

Most mainstream ads still concentrate on getting a women regardless of height into: NOT plus size 28-31 waist yet still keep a D cup-or add one. We have to smell like fokin flowers, be hairless as nine yr olds except thick manes on top of our heads, We have to have straight sparkling teeth, bright expressions, 4in or less hip to waist ratio, small pretty feet. There is now even industry of plastic ...<_< koochi surgery!! Cuz that has to look like a 9 year olds as well. The thin movement moving away from telling men to like curves that started with feminist movements hailed twiggy and despised icons of earlier era. Paris runway has become the ideal (just like Barbie- they have tall deformed bodies to make the clothes look good...)

We still have to give good service for low pay both in relationships and employment.

*steps off soapbox* end rant...still


Barefoot , pregnant and in the kitchen is luxurious (with optional nausea) : )

Femi-Nazis are as discriminating as any sexist, sadly they pick on their own gender as well.
They take credit for EVERY positive move done for women, regardless of what agency instigated it but weasel out of blame for any backlash, bad behaviors or downright draconian.

So a Professional Feminist.. is that good pay? I think I could pretend EVERY man is like my monster X enough to get some foamy spittle worked up. I will not pierce my face, become foul or fat if that is required though. Not gonna wear 40 # glasses and If I get mustache it is not gonna stay

BTW: That comedian isn't the best example... his manner of presenting some battles in the war of the sexes SUCKS. He comes off with a bitter tone more than humor, like disguising attacks as jokes.

Unfortunately, it is very representative. I've dealt with professional women for many years. I wish I was wrong. I was very pro feminist but the hypocrisies inherent in feminism kept cropping up. I could no longer make excuses for it.

What did you think of the hate speeches by feminists in my link?


You are truly brainwashed. When all factors are considered, there is no gender-wage -gap. In fact, in some professions women make more than men because they are sought after to fill quotas. That's not equallity. As to access to public services, I've already pointed out the advantages women have when it comes to health and education issues. It's noticeable that you are immune to such information.


If Polish women don't go the way of misandry (male-hatred) as evidenced by their western sisters than it may be a good thing. Hopefully, they won't be influenced by all the male-bashers that dominate western feminsim.


That line was archived about 30-40 years ago. Since feminist supporters feel a need to still use it speaks volumes about how good they have it today.


Which comments? .......the link which shows a female speaker proudly saying that she "hates men".? ......or the information that shows how women's health is favored in the U.S.?.......or my previous dismantling of the fictitious wage-gap?....or my experiences with women shouting and swearing at me after I introduced myself at a meeting? .....or a myriad of examples and (real) statistics I have given which aren't subject to objective disproval?

There are many many reasons why male ex feminists like myself have stopped supporting feminists. It's because we live in the real world.

" I've dealt with professional women for many years."
Ones from the oldest profession?

" almost all those who suffer family breakdown will be the children of unmarried parents"
Got a source for that or is it just another one of your laughable lies?

I was happy enough to live among smart, confident men and women that didn't have to spew on one another. Both sides understood that they are equal. Period. Nothing more. And since that was understood noone had to hate anyone. Of course there are ppl on both sides that feel insecure and so on but I'm around ppl that know this basic truths.

Nah, more like a bucket of water in a bath tub. Point being; when ads do show someone who is a dufus, it is with rare exception, a male. Granted it was worse 10 years ago until some people started to complain about it, but it's still there. The most egregious was a candy company which showed a man being kicked in the crotch by a woman (real funny stuff eh?). I can only imagine the outrage if the sexes were reversed.


My girlfriends prefer it that way.


Actually, I've noticed that in general men do age better. Maybe it's all that make-up women used over the decades?


....and may I add, a wit and a sense of humor. I've found that feminists lack those 2 qualities especially the latter one. I cannot tell you how often I could spot a feminist in an office setting by just looking at her smug unhappy face. They wear man-suits and walk around clicking their heels like camp guards. I'm not just saying this. I've been in corporate business a long time (including the music business) and it's as if these sour looking feminists all graduated from the same cookie-cutter gender studies courses.

Speaking of that, my daughter Kristina dropped out of one the gender study courses (Univ. of Minnesota) because her teacher did not like her specific questions about the accepted feminist narratives she was hearing My daughter and 2 other young women dropped the course because they could see through it. No opinion other than the accepted "PC" one was acceptable. I believe that isf2's problem too. She has all the earmarks of having a degree in women's studies. No opposing opinion can be tolerated. That's why f2 doesn't look at opposition links and why she doesn't look at posts which just might shatter what she believes in. I'm sure she is smart enough to know better although that seems to be in the future.


LOL, just once when I was in Vegas many years ago. Wasn't even my idea but my friend won some money so dinner, drinks and ....ahem, were on him. (I was young then, that's my excuse).It wasn't what it was cracked-up to be.

I'll be dining and drinking in town today and tonight so this is it for now. I do want to add something about domestic violence which is a serious issue for women AND men. As usual with these things, the issue with men is "politically incorrect" to emphasize but real statistics (not ones made-up by the DV industry) show parity as proven by the Feibert studies which I linked a few pages back. Those who are feminist apologists need not look at the following link because it's something you dare not comprehend. It's about 10 minutes long.

youtube.com/watch?v=VOu_BszChIE

Lol, I haven't seen such a stupid video in a long time. I feel repulsed by it. I saw beaten women. I saw them while they were beaten- and this...is BS

It's obvious you are one of those people who cannot accept an opinion different from yours. You didn't see the video since you posted a mere 7 minutes after I did and the video is 10 minutes long. Shameful!

If you dared to view it you would see how objective it is. You couldn't do it. That speaks for you more than any post of yours.

edit: In the unlikely event that you have the courage to view it let me ask you this; What SPECIFICALLY do you disagree with in the video?

I did. I take as far as to the part that women get bruises and so on because men just fight back

@ Zimmy, I watched that video. Seems to blame women for domestic violence, even when they're the victims.

This is thinly veiled propaganda from mysogenists. As long as rubbish like this is taken seriously there will be a desperate need for feminism. Statistics have already been posted to this thread showing that male-on-female attacks represent the overwhelming majority of instances of domestic violence. Think of the women you know: your mother, sister, wife or partner, friends, work colleagues. You would surely want them to be safe, and to be able to live free from fear. And if any man was vicious enough to hurt a woman you care about, you would surely want the authorities to take her complaint seriously. Evil propaganda such as the video you linked to really doesn't help.

no Zimmy, it is you that cannot accept an opinion different from yours. You have to get your head out of the anti-women side of the internet and start thinking for yourself.

Interesting link.
There is a point.

Most of the men these anti-women websites are catering to are the guys that cannot accept that men and women should have an equal say in a relationship, or (God forbid!) that the women can make more money than they do.

Because they cannot get past their ingrained stereotypes, their relationships suffer, and in order not to feel emasculated, they conjure and image of a woman as butch or obnoxiously feminist. And internet offers much validation in that direction, if one is looking for it.

But, if a man truly believes that women are more likely to initiate violence than men, then there might be some personal experience that led him to this point.

Even though all the statistics and logistics, such as social roles, upbringing, reproductive physiology, physical strength comparisons etc. lean in favor of woman being a victim, no one is saying that men cannot be victims too. I'm sure it must be comforting for an abused man to learn that he is not alone.

Maybe we should be more compassionate.
Zimmy, for example, is quick to point out his great successes with women, but the websites he's stuck on suggest otherwise.

A lot fo ideas have been bandied about in this thread, so maybe it's time for one straightforward question. Are you for:

-- full parity (an equal number of women in parliament, government and all workplaces)?
-- abandoning men's and women's categories in the Olympic games and all sporting competitions?

If so, why? If not, why not?

Can you point out any facts presented in that video which are false.? Don't generalize, please be specific. Just calling someone a misogynist doesn't cut it. Anyone can do that. I can call you a man-hater but that's not an argument.


There are 2 things you don't understand. First, in domestic situations, women attack men as frequently as men attack women because emotion is involved and the 2 people know each other. Often, women know that their male partner will not hit back, let alone report it. It's more difficult for men to officially report domestic violence than it is for women for obvious reasons. Second; the statistics you claim are usually compiled by domestic violence interests. What that means is that there is self-interest for funding and for an activist agenda. I've met these people. I'll add that they count alleged incidences of violence as well. A man tapping a woman on the shoulder is counted as violence. A woman hitting a man on the shoulder isn't counted at all, etc. That's why the Feibert Studies are so important. They extract all the agenda-ridden nonsense.


I used to be pro feminist. Reality which includes dealing with feminists in a business and personal manner changed that. Try thinking about that.


Not one of them experienced domestic violence. including my two daughters. I find it most interesting that the 'domestic violence card' is so important to feminists. It's as if it's a medal of honor of some sort. that only they can play. Hell with men though.


Once again, point out anything that is anti woman in that video. If you watched it in total you would see that there is nothing that any objective person can disagree with. The ending calls for full people compliance. Feminists only want 'their' jaundiced issues considered. A female friend of mine once told me, "feminism was a hate movement from the very beginning. Had it really been about equality, it would be called egalitarianism not feminism". That's food for thought but then, I've found that most feminists prefer to make their judgments and decisions based on emotion, not logic.


Actually, women have been very successful with me :)


Of course you bring up a logical point but you won't get a straight answer. Feminists want it both ways. They are so "equal" to men that they demand quotas (note the irony) in high powered positions. Yet, they demand separation when it comes to venues like sports. Wimbledon caved and gave women equal pay for less work. Why? ...because women demanded "equal pay" At Wimbledon women play fewer sets and their level of game, while exciting, does not come close to the mens'.. When the Williams sisters individually lost 6-0 and 6-1 to a man ranked 207th on the mens tour that pretty much settled that.

If feminists (not necessarily all women) want true integration into everything then why are they for keeping womens tennis, golf, bowling, even chess, etc, separate? Isn't it inconsistent to demand quotas for those things that should be earned like high positions in business and government while at the same time fearing male integration in those areas that advantage them?

Hopefully, the Polish women's organizations know that there is a difference between men and women. Their western sisters don't. They often claim that the sexes are mere "social constructs".

In a pinch, one can understand apartheid in physical competion but chess? Are women admitting their brain power cannot compete with that of males?

No I'm pointing out that you were talking bollox while trying to be a man.

Yes of course you were. I'm sure to someone you are a hero. Give yourself a well-deserved pat on the back.
Now then panty waste, seeing as you can't get on track with the thread, let a man help you.

Feminism, was a movement that started out to correct a problem of inequality. I am not suggesting that inequality didn't exist but I am suggesting feminism was not the right way to do it. The reason I think this, and anyone is free to disagree of course, is that it pits women against men.

Sure, you'll have some men who go with the flow and agree with wage parity for responsibility parity but of course there were and still are plenty of women who have seen this as a way to get ahead by pushing guys down where they can. The easiest group of males to attack have actually been boys. There has been a systemic attack against men by first attacking them when they are boys.

These attacks have been benign in some ways but effective nonetheless at disenfranchising them and marginalizing their needs. If anyone has the patience, this lovely individual gives a very informative talk:

No.
Why?
Because I don't know how it works and if it's fair. It would probably make positive changes happen faster (and I know that they are needed) but on the other hand Poland isn't Saudi Arabia or Iran and I guess we can get there on our own eventually. It will take longer than with parity I suppose but on the plus side men won't be whining about discrimination :) ;)


No.
Why?
Because women have different physique than men - they're usually physically weaker, have lesser muscle mass by default, etc. It wouldn't make much sense then - men would be winning all the time.

Unless in case of sports where physical strength doesn't give that much advantage as in golf, bowling, chess mentioned by Zimmy.


How do you know they are?
Btw, I wouldn't say tennis is a good example - physical strength in this sport very much matters. That's why, among others, Serena Williams has been dominating women's tennis for quite some time.


I wouldn't say that the level of game does not come close to the men's - I used to think that women's tennis is boring but I've started watching it lately and I must say it's as interesting and probably as good.


When was that? They played only one set?


The problem with high positions in Poland is that buddies (men who are already "there") hire their buddies (men), because, for example, they used to study at the university together (my personal experience, among others, a big and well known company). Or a woman is downgraded from her position that she earned by years of hard work because her new boss is a woman hater (and an idiot admittedly) - the only woman on that position in an entire workplace (my mum's experience).

So, although I don't really support any quotas and parity I can understand that women can be frustrated.


That's a silly statement. Where did she get that? Does she know anything about the beginnings of the feminism movement? Perhaps suffragists wanted the right to vote because they hated men that much? :D

Hm, it would be interesting seing for example men competing with women in artistic gynastics :) Of course we are different and joining sports would be just stupid.

Women generally have much stronger legs than men - and there is no shortage of accomplished sportswomen.

lol
I thought about artistic gymnastics too! :)
Btw, I remember I've heard that a woman champion in some kind of skiing or sth wanted to compete in men's competition but I guess she wasn't allowed in the end.


I doubt that - if that was true women would be able to do quadruple jumps in figure skating, but they aren't able to perform them and men are (well, not all skaters, but still... :)).