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What is Poland going to be like in the 2050s?


Spike31 3 | 1,638
7 Apr 2020 #31
Why not try to beat Hollywood with English language movies or songs instead?

Video games, not movies, are the future of entertaiment industry. It is still growing and AAA games offer better profit margins than Hollywood films. Poland is the 5th largest game exporter in the world.

worldstopexports.com/top-video-games-exports-by-country/



jon357 63 | 15,214
7 Apr 2020 #32
Why not try to beat Hollywood with English language movies or songs instead?

Most Polish films/TV shows (with the notable exception of several great directors' arthouse films) are usually very poor, and the popular music generally dire.

Education is a potential growth area here; already the universities take more and more overseas students; this is a growth area, providing the revenue goes to fund research rather than just being trousered.
Spike31 3 | 1,638
7 Apr 2020 #33
I don't watch TV shows but when it comes to films there were some great Polish movies made in recent years like Zimna Wojna [Cold War] or Kamerdyner [The Butler].

Popular music is dire everywhere in the world, even in the UK. Some old c*ap rehashed, remixed and served to masses by a handful of global studios. There are some gems out there but they are not being promoted so you have to search for them online. Internet saves the culture.

One of a notable exceptions when something good is also very popular is Tulia.



jon357 63 | 15,214
7 Apr 2020 #34
Kamerdyner

That one was a rare exception, good, though not excellent and a limited market outside its own territory.. The popular music here is generally bad, with a few high quality exceptions like The Saturday Tea.

The theatrical scene here is largely pedestrian, pre-Osborne even, and though there are some good opera performers, opera here only really works at its best when it's a co-production supervised outside Poland. Almost always with Cardiff and Brussels for the obvious reason. There will be more of that in the future, however I don't see vast changes in the next couple of decades.

I don't think either (unless a new Kieslowski or Holland comes along) will ever be anything Poland is noted for. Tulia is liekd here, however has very limited export potential.

Scientific research and education, especially if isolated from free-market economics, is a a possible area for the future.

Film locations are something we'll see more of; there are already Bollywood films that are partly shot here, since with a bit of dressing locations can look like almost anywhere in Europe, and of course there's the infrastructure in Lodz. It might not be the next Vancouver, however there's some money to be made.
Crow 139 | 8,641
8 Apr 2020 #35
The future is in the North.

Poland have future. But, speaking of global warming, just think of all those low shores in Netherlands and Scandinavian countries that will be flooded by rising level of water.

And Belgrade isn`t that South. Its Central Europe. Still Southern Enough for eventual Summer royal palace. After all, Warsaw would be satisfied to have Winter palace.

Internet saves the culture.

Agreed.
jon357 63 | 15,214
8 Apr 2020 #36
ust think of all those low shores in Netherlands and Scandinavian countries that will be flooded by rising level of water.

Plus a lot of northern Poland.

After all, Warsaw would be satisfied to have Winter palace.

It wouldn't, and won't happen.
Spike31 3 | 1,638
8 Apr 2020 #37
Tulia is liekd here, however has very limited export potential.

Not everything should be intended, or even compromised, for export. Some works are better off to be produced for a hermetic native audience who understand all the artistic references.
jon357 63 | 15,214
8 Apr 2020 #38
Not everything should be intended ....for expor

It simply isn't of sufficient quality; hence that not being an area that is likely to develop.
Spike31 3 | 1,638
8 Apr 2020 #39
It simply isn't of sufficient quality

Quality in art is subjective and depends on cultural background of a given society.

Sure, we can appeal to more universal values and sell those products globally - which already happens in gaming industry - yet there also should be an exclusive works of art which are only fully understood by the native society creating a strong sense of belonging to the same nation.
jon357 63 | 15,214
8 Apr 2020 #40
Quality in art is subjective

And qualitative; most post-1989 output in Poland is unfortunately of too poor a quality to generate revenue outside a small home market..

Sure, we can appeal to more universal values and sell those products globally

That hasn't happened; video games and other youth products aren't quite artistic output and are a hugely changing market...

there.also.should.be.an.exclusive.works of art which are only fully understood by the native society creating a strong sense of belonging to the same nation.

There's no particular reason for that.

Poland does have creative possibilities; they achieve their best in co-productions under the supervision of others and this works well..

As a film location though, there are great possibilities.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,268
8 Apr 2020 #41
Some works are better off to be produced for a hermetic native audience who understand all the artistic references.

Sounds like a slogan taken straight from the Minister for Culture, circa 1982.

yet there also should be an exclusive works of art

As viewed by no-one in particular, as current releases prove. Most of them are only attended by bored schoolchildren during the day, with little enthusiasm by the general public.

Scientific research and education, especially if isolated from free-market economics, is a a possible area for the future.

Unfortunately, if they're isolated from free-market economics, they tend to end up being political and of little merit.
jon357 63 | 15,214
8 Apr 2020 #42
a slogan taken straight from the Minister for Culture, circa 1982

Or 1932.
Spike31 3 | 1,638
8 Apr 2020 #43
That hasn't happened; video games and other youth products aren't quite artistic output

There nothing more artistic than shaping new ideas into a working product and creating new virtual worlds which people would want to visit and experience. Video games are more immersive than any other form of art because they demand more involvement from a person. Just like the internet is more immersive than TV.

Only those who create can understand the power of creation. Most people are consumers who define themselves by the creations of a few.
jon357 63 | 15,214
8 Apr 2020 #44
There nothing more artistic than shaping new ideas in

Casuistry about popculture.

Ephemeral too; in 20 years time there will be something that has superseded them.
Spike31 3 | 1,638
8 Apr 2020 #45
@jon357, Remember that what we consider fine arts nowadays, like works of Shakespeare or tragedies written by Sophocles was popular with - and intended for - the masses. So the greatest works of art are something which resonated on some level with a wider audience.

That's completely oppose to modern conceptual art which says: "Here's pleb, this urinal is a great work of art which you would never understand. Now get on your knees and adore it so you can tell your friends that you're a refined person".


  • Duchamp
jon357 63 | 15,214
9 Apr 2020 #46
like works of Shakespeare or tragedies written by Sophocles was popular with - and intended for - the masses

Yet patronised by the cultured and stands the test of time. Lower culture hasn't survived. Something as passive as video games will at best stay as fresh as forgotten 1950s TV shows.

Interesting that you post a photo of Rrose Sélavy's best known work (which the masses queue up to see) while ignoring a whole corpus of creativity tat has certainly stood the test of time, especially his best known work which wasn't the popular caprice that you depict. You also demonstrate a weak understanding of contemporary art.

However you are trying to go off topic.

In the 2050s we are likely to see a very different Poland; there will have been rampant inflation before then, as well as a declining and aging population. Games, I suspect, will not be their priority.
Spike31 3 | 1,638
9 Apr 2020 #47
Something as passive as video games

What? Video games are anything but passive. Watching TV is passive, contemplating Mona Lisa is passive, listening to music is passive, listening to a teacher in a classroom is passive, reading newspaper is passive. Playing games, especially those with crafting system is anything but passive.

declining and aging population

Yes, that's the biggest challenge. The first step would be to eliminate welfare state so people would start relying on their families in life instead of the state.
jon357 63 | 15,214
9 Apr 2020 #48
Video games...........Watching TV

Much the same thing.

contemplating Mona Lisa is passive, listening to music is passive

The cognoscenti would certainly disagree with that little gem of wisdom.

I'm still giggling at your choice of the 1917 Fountain. You could hardly have picked a worse example if you'd tried, since it is a hugely popular piece which was intended to (and succeeded in) outraging the art establishment. It also led directly to pop art, also hugely popular.

And you're still trying to go off topic.

The first step would be to eliminate welfare state so people would start relying on their families

Economic predictions suggest the opposite, that commonweal will progress; this is underpinned by all dominant economic and social trends over the last couple of centuries. You also assume that people a. have extended families and b.can depend on them for material support.
Spike31 3 | 1,638
9 Apr 2020 #49
I'm still giggling at your choice of the 1917 Fountain

I've picked it as a bright example of pointlessness of a modern conceptual art. It was popular simply because of its shocking value back in the days and not because it deeply resonated on some deeper level with the mass audience.

Nowadays no one even pays attention to such performances and those kind of "artists", while still being popularised by some circles, are largely angry and bitter that a "common pleb" doesn't pay much attention to them and their creations.

Believe it or not I've met a few such a wannabe (f)artists in London ;-)

Economic predictions suggest the opposite

The history of Western civilisation and demographics suggests the opposite.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,268
9 Apr 2020 #50
The first step would be to eliminate welfare state

And it's a step that won't be taken. Do not underestimate the power of the elderly to keep people in power, as in Belarus.
mafketis 23 | 8,421
9 Apr 2020 #51
eliminate welfare state so people would start relying on their families in life instead of the state

There are lots of countries with no welfare and where people have to depend on their families instead of the state... they're called sh1th0les....

Freeing people from the tyranny of the extended family is one of the greatest achievements of western civilization. It has some downsides but they are far outweighed by the advantages - move toward meritocracy rather than nepotism, greater equality between the sexes (rather than institutional violence against women), greater support for innovation (since that tends to come from oddballs who don't necessarily get along with their families), the demise of family feuds and vendetta etc etc etc

Your vision of a welfare-less state that's not a dysfunctional nightmare is an illusion. go spend time in Somalia or Haiti or Mauritania or Cambodia and get back to us.
jackrussel
9 Apr 2020 #52
The first step is for young people to stop suffering on dead end desk jobs at outsourcing multinationals. Most can't even get promoted to a team leader there (good luck with 50+ coworkers). Might as well do something you're passionate about.

I agree that conceptual art sucks. But we need escapism in hard times. Google Ross Sisters - Solid Potato Salad. Or Give A Girl a Break (the numbers Give A Girl A Break and Balloon Dance).
Spike31 3 | 1,638
9 Apr 2020 #53
go spend time in Somalia or Haiti or Mauritania or Cambodia and get back to us.

Don't compare Europe and European people to a 3rd world countries. Everything is different about us: mentality, traditions, philosophy of life, work ethics, social relations, IQ

And yes, I've been to SE Asia so I could learn it myself
mafketis 23 | 8,421
9 Apr 2020 #54
Everything is different about us

Because of things like the welfare state! Europeans were also dysfunctional before ideas like welfare came along and a lot of pre-welfare dysfunction is still around.

The mafia is what happens when the state just lets families depend upon each other.

Yes, there has been overreach in some countries (Scandinavia par example) and it can induce lethargy and apathy (underclass in the UK) but overall a social safety net is an indispensable part of civilizational advance.
jon357 63 | 15,214
9 Apr 2020 #55
a modern conceptual art.

Over a century old, not 'conceptual art' and intended as a p1sstake. But never mind reality...

Don't compare Europe and European people to a 3rd world countries. Everything is different about us:

Less than you pretend to think.

If anything, what you call a 'welfare state' will increase, in part due to an ageing population. 500+ shows that Poland is also moving in this direction.

Universal Basic Income may well be something we see more of in the future. Should nearby countries adopt it, it is hard to imagine that there wouldn't be pressure in Poland for this.
Spike31 3 | 1,638
9 Apr 2020 #56
Because of things like the welfare state! Europeans were also dysfunctional

That's not true. XIX century was a pinnacle of European civilisation. The amount of scientific discoveries and inventions was just unthinkable. And the first industrial revolution was started in the UK even earlier than that. Europe started being dysfunctional in a wake of socialism: national socialism in Germany and international one in Russia.

intended as a p1sstake

All of that was and is a pisstake. Complety devoided of any value whatsoever. Created by deviants and also cherished by them :-)

Funny thing is that he is only known for that: an urinal with his name on it. That's his "legacy"
jon357 63 | 15,214
9 Apr 2020 #57
Complety devoided of any value whatsoever. Created by deviants

So you're pretending that some art is ' Entartete Kunst'...

Funny thing is that he is only known for that:

You really think he's "only known for that"? Perhaps by you....

'The pinnacle of European civilisation' was probably rather earlier than that. In any case, the next century belongs to the East.
jackrussel
9 Apr 2020 #58
If they stop eating dogs, cats, rats and bats...
jon357 63 | 15,214
9 Apr 2020 #59
I doubt that will change before Europeans stop eating decomposed milk.
cms neuf - | 1,599
9 Apr 2020 #60
Or chicken embryos for breakfast


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