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How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants?


nott 3 | 594
30 Aug 2010  #1
In the current atmosphere I ignored this 'another stupid question by MG', but somebody else seconded, so it looks more like public demand now.

First, a technical detail. The original question was:

how can some Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants?

Emphasis mine. I omitted it in the title, because I consider this complaining a common Polish trait. In the UK, to be specific, I do not know about other countries, although I'd suspect this stance knows no borders.

So, anybody interested in shedding some light on this, as plk123 phrased it, 'the most bizarre thing'?
southern 76 | 7,103
30 Aug 2010  #2
Polish immigrants are white.They are right to complain.
Trevek 26 | 1,703
30 Aug 2010  #3
So does that mean they can complain about other white immigrants? I mean, think of all the australians and south africans who can't get jobs in sandwich bars now.
southern 76 | 7,103
30 Aug 2010  #4
I welcome the polish immigrants.The more the better as they lead to slavicization and strong white thresholds.UK has probably a problem since the influx of polish immigrants is not accompanied by a relative influx of polish capital like that of Indians so they see no political long term benefit in employing them.

I on the other hand see great benefit.
Seanus 15 | 19,716
30 Aug 2010  #5
Nott, in what ways do they complain?
Bzibzioh
30 Aug 2010  #6
MG was generalizing, as usual. It was said in context of LEGAL immigrants protesting ILLEGAL immigrants. That's all.
Trevek 26 | 1,703
30 Aug 2010  #7
Not contextualized in the post.

Maybe I'm a bit sensitive, but I read it as Poles allegedly complaining about non-European immigrants (maybe cos of the second post, which is rather objectionable).
southern 76 | 7,103
30 Aug 2010  #8
From an economic point of view all immigrants are the same.From a political point of view they are not the same.For example here an albo is not a paki nor do they identify themselves as the same.And of course Russians are completely different case.
Bzibzioh
30 Aug 2010  #9
Maybe I'm a bit sensitive, but I read it as Poles allegedly complaining about non-European immigrants (maybe cos of the second post, which is rather objectionable).

MG was commenting on my post about Political Correctness and my example about Canada admitting 500 Tamil Tigers who illegally arrived to Vancouver recently on a ship. In his lefties fashion he went ballistic how could I, an immigrant myself, could complain about other immigrants. Failing to notice a big difference that I arrived here with immigration visa and not by jumping the queue.
Trevek 26 | 1,703
30 Aug 2010  #10
Ah, I see. NOW that makes sense. In UK it is interesting to hear established members of long-term migrant communities, like Sikhs, Indians and, to some extent, post-war Poles complaining about new influxes of migrants getting benefits they never got.
plk123 8 | 4,153
30 Aug 2010  #11
In UK it is interesting to hear established members of long-term migrant communities, like Sikhs, Indians and, to some extent, post-war Poles complaining about new influxes of migrants getting benefits they never got.

that is really what this thread is all about anyway.. bzib just wants to be right so she's picking on the one instance where MG had an issue that maybe didn't necessarily neatly fit.. this complaining by PLish immigrants about other (legal) immigrants, whether be it USA or GB, can be read throughout PF.. this one particular incident is not out of the norm at all.. and yes, i find it bizarre as hell..

the other thing about illegal immigrants: during the communist times most of poles were illegal at first anyway.. many had to sneak out of poland.. so bltching about illegal ones is also kind of two faced, if you ask me.
MareGaea 29 | 2,753
30 Aug 2010  #12
Bzibi is just out for retribution as she can't stand to lose all of the time and having to revert to verbal violence, like the Topic Starter. They both should be embarrassed to bits for reverting to such low practices.

Anyway, here in Ireland Polish immigrants are complaining about other, non-European immigrants on several occasions I have personally witnessed this. I am a foreigner as well in the country where I live, but I don't complain about others who are same. They're in the same boat as I am and faced the same issues I faced at the start.

But you're right, this thread is just intended by nott and Bzibioh to get back at me personally, and I will ask the mods to close this thread for two reasons: first of all, this topic has been conducted and discussed many times before on this forum and secondly, in referral to forum rule #2 and #8.

So, I don't know which one of the moderators is present at the time, but I would like to ask him/her to close this thread based on forum rule #2 and #8 and because of the fact that this thread is solely intended for personal gratification and retributtal purposes of some forum members.

>^..^<

M-G (some ppl are really childish)
OP nott 3 | 594
30 Aug 2010  #13
Nott, in what ways do they complain?

Huh? Verbally, mostly...

You mean what about? Excuse my lame English.

The popular topics are:
- abuse of the benefit system
- laziness and lack of competence, paired with:
- inflated expectations, 'gimme' attitude
- playing the race-abuse Card
- criminal inclinations
- racism... group-favoritism, let's call it

Hard to say which are the most popular. Important (and rather obvious to most people) thing is, that these accusations are not directed against 'non-Polish immigrants' in general, and not even against 'non-white immigrants' in general. There are specific groups that are targeted, although they can be often wholly contained in one race.

Besides, many opinions on particular groups are not exactly complaints, just observations which may, or may not, be considered derogatory. Like "Indians know how to make money'. This maybe followed either by 'fvcking leeches', or by a resigned/envious sigh, depending on personal taste.

MG was generalizing, as usual.

Granted, but this was just an off-hand remark, so we can be more forgiving here.

It was said in context of LEGAL immigrants protesting ILLEGAL immigrants. That's all.

That's somewhere in the direction I am aiming at, but it's a simplification. Actually, if you concentrate on legality, it's not a general attitude. Before 2004 Poles were illegal here, and the memory is still quite fresh, so legality is rather a supporting argument only.

The thing is more complicated. Of course, from a newcomer you may hear 'blacks are lazy cvnts', but quickly the fresh immigrant learns how to recognize a West Indian from a Somali, and opinions get differentiated.

To put in practical context:

Nigeria - system abusers, crooks, thieves
Somalia - similar, but more inclined to work as a pack
Ghana - nice people, actually
West Indies - warm, friendly, hard working, decent, racist; this doesn't include the rasta-reggae-ganja' type, another box.
Pakistani - cowardly crooks, never to be fully trusted
Filipino - sympathetic, hard working carers, poor girls
China - DVD dealers; crooks, but useful; harmless
Thailand - well... nice girls

Then whites, separated for the benefit of... Ok:

Czechs, Slovaks - easy to get along with, good companions, maybe a bit too materialistic (and sorry for bundling the two nations together)
Romanians - thieves, beggars
Lithuanians - working horses, if not too bright, with a grudge against Poles
Russians - actually quite all right and amiable... those who came here, that is
Hungarians - acceptable, no specific characteristics, just regular people
Jews (are Jews white, MG? ) - good neighbours, respectable; tough in price negotiations, yet honest in agreed payment, unlike the Indians
Irish - good companions, but b1tches at work.
English - oh, they are natives...
Poles, right - now that's a whole big story

The bottom line is:

Poles might be 'in the same boat', as MG said elsewhere, but it doesn't have the slightest importance, unless somebody... well. There are much more important factors than the immigration status of whatever group. Namely, the group's characteristics, as perceived. Not without reasons.
plk123 8 | 4,153
30 Aug 2010  #14
nott .... to get back at me personally

no man.. on this he's actually seeing things in the same light... see above ^^^
MareGaea 29 | 2,753
30 Aug 2010  #15
If so, it would be highly surprising, given the fact that my nick is mentioned several times. If I would start a topic based on what sb else mentioned any time earlier, I would've said "sb mentioned this or that". That would be the most apropriate way to do this. Now it has the shine of what I mentioned in my previous post all over it.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
OP nott 3 | 594
30 Aug 2010  #16
Anyway, here in Ireland Polish immigrants are complaining about other, non-European immigrants on several occasions I have personally witnessed this.

Same in the UK... except here we include European immigrants in the privilege.

I am a foreigner as well in the country where I live, but I don't complain about others who are same.

Good for you. But we are discussing Poles here, not you.

They're in the same boat as I am and faced the same issues I faced at the start.

Point is, that the boat is not really important for us. Like, arbitrary grouping is waste of time and renders misleading conclusions.

So, I don't know which one of the moderators is present at the time, but I would like to ask him/her to close this thread based on forum rule #2 and #8

Off-topic, like. See the title.

Well, formally off-topic, but has to be addressed anyway, if the topic is to stay. So:
1. Maybe the topic has been discussed, still there are people who keep repeating the question, in bewilderment, so we might as well try and resolve it at last.

2. If the topic is against the forum rules, then
a) all the numerous previous discussions that you refer to should've been killed in the cradle; they weren't, I presume
b) you shouldn't have asked the question in the first place. Seems to me the rules are for all members.

M-G (some ppl are really childish)

*sigh*

Please imagine that I included the following request as a part of the topic:

'And no personal jabs, please'.

And you are free not to participate, thus making it much harder for Bzibzioh to get back at you personally. Not that I wouldn't rather that you elaborated on your statement, maybe to the benefit of all.
Amathyst 19 | 2,704
30 Aug 2010  #17
Somalia - similar, but more inclined to work as a pack

Actually they are the least likely to work at all.

I mean, think of all the australians and south africans who can't get jobs in sandwich bars now.

Its funny you say that, over the past couple of years Ive noticed that all the receptionists in various companies in London I have to ring have replaced those hideous accents with Easter Europeans :D Its music to my ears!!

China - DVD dealers; crooks, but useful; harmless

You forgort to mention they are the largest illegal immigrants in the UK and are responsible for most if not all of the canabis factories in the UK - couple that with the violence in their communities and the the fraud they commit..Not as harmless as you'd like to think. I dont mind them though because they do seem to keep it within their own communities in general (apart from the canabis factories)..Oh did I mention the fact they are responsible for the main source of people trafficing to the sex trade :(

Jews (are Jews white, MG? ) - good neighbours, respectable; tough in price negotiations, yet honest in agreed payment, unlike the Indians

Jews are in two very very separate camps in the UK, 1st: Generally well-to-do and just like you and I in appearance and attitudes 2nd: Hasidic and have no intention whatsoever of assimilating - still both are generally reasonable people and I have no issues with them.
Bolle 1 | 147
30 Aug 2010  #18
complaining a common Polish trait

Foreigners in poland complain more IMO.
OP nott 3 | 594
30 Aug 2010  #19
it would be highly surprising, given the fact that my nick is mentioned several times.

You are getting too touchy. Understandable after the recent thrashing, but please.

You nick was mentioned just once, in quoted remark. Thus I tried to illustrate my previous frame of mind, and distance myself from it. Sorry for failing to communicate.

If you feel like contributing to the topic, you are welcome. If not, please consider yourself kindly requested to stroll away to the Random.

on this he's actually seeing things in the same light

No, hence the topic at all. I don't agree with the generalization 'other immigrants'. I don't agree with specifically targeting Poles on the issue as well, but this is Polish forums, about Poles, so this is not much of a problem.
AussieSheila 5 | 75
30 Aug 2010  #20
Conservative gov't just allowed local councils to bypass immigrants in favour of british citizens for council houses. Which means those dark jamaicans and paki british will jump the queue in front of eastern europeans immigrants. Poetic justice methinks.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1307248/Locals-given-priority-immigrants-queue-council-houses.html
OP nott 3 | 594
30 Aug 2010  #21
Actually they are the least likely to work at all.

Sorry, I meant 'work' in a very specific way. More like 'attack', hence the 'pack'.

all the receptionists in various companies in London I have to ring have replaced those hideous accents with Easter Europeans :D Its music to my ears!!

:)

*astonished, actually*

You forgot to mention they are the largest illegal immigrants in the UK and are responsible for most if not all of the cannabis factories in the UK

not going to argue, I was just describing the Polish POV. As you say, they keep most their problems to themselves. And cannabis on the streets... first, I associate it with black rather, than yellow. Second... weed is... not that I am using it...

Jews are in two very very separate camps in the UK, 1st: Generally well-to-do and just like you and I in appearance and attitudes

You and me, Ok, but I was speaking of a 'typical Pole, naturally racist'. A 'typical' whoever is usually dumber than most of the individuals who contributed to the type. What actually surprised me here, was that all Poles I met consider mixed Jewish-English areas the best for living. Quiet, clean, safe, nice neighbours, both unimposing and helpful in case.

2nd: Hasidic and have no intention whatsoever of assimilating - still both are generally reasonable people and I have no issues with them.

Right, I forgot the orthodox. Shows I have no issue with them either - and I didn't remember any other Pole who had. Now that you mentioned it, my reaction to the orthodox area was rather that of a tourist, tinted with some typically Polish sentimental sentiments.
plk123 8 | 4,153
30 Aug 2010  #22
Actually they are the least likely to work at all.

aye aye arrr. :)

Foreigners in poland complain more IMO.

about PL tho

I don't agree with specifically targeting Poles on the issue as well,

huh? that's not what you say up top.. hmm.. *scratches head*

Quiet, clean, safe, nice neighbours, both unimposing and helpful in case.

ding, ding.. anti-semitism can wait if it suits one. :)
MareGaea 29 | 2,753
30 Aug 2010  #23
off-topic. Personal remark.

Oh really? And this:

'another stupid question by MG'

would not be deemed a personal remark?

Understandable after the recent thrashing

As I remember, I wiped you repeatedly under the table, at least enough times for you to keep coming back at it; none of you had any credible points, so...Pls stop being so arrogant, you have no reason to be arrogant at all, given the way I buried you several times :)

Pls don't reflect your own revanchistic character upon sb else. It would suit you better. You've been like this from the start - as many could see on here.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
OP nott 3 | 594
30 Aug 2010  #24
Bolle:Foreigners in poland complain more IMO.

Hard to complain about Nigerians in PL

that's not what you say up top..

No it's not :) Being a bit provocative, or what. Or hoping to see if anybody notices that. The generalisation, I mean. Singling out Poles doesn't bother me.

anti-semitism can wait if it suits one. :)

Huh? I am not quite getting your meaning... clean and safe as opposed to Newham, for example. Or do you consider this remark a racist one?
Trevek 26 | 1,703
30 Aug 2010  #25
all the receptionists in various companies in London I have to ring have replaced those hideous accents with Easter Europeans

lol I've not lived in Britain for a while now but before I left I was based in Glasgow. Lived in a house load of Afrikaaners. What I noticed was that at one point lots of Antipodeans worked in pubs and sandwich bars but slowly the accents changed to those of South Africa. Had i stayed longer I'd have doubtless heard even more Central European and Baltic accents confirming my refusal of mayonnaise.

Which means those dark jamaicans and paki british will jump the queue in front of eastern europeans immigrants.

Will British Sikhs and Asians also be able to do it, or how about those bloody commonwealth colonials who used to work in the sandwich bars?

I once had an Aussie pal tell me about his returning to UK on a study visa and being made to wait at the line in Heathrow by a Bangladeshi immigration officer who told him, "I do not have to let YOU into this country!"

I wiped you repeatedly under the table

Sounds kinky. I hope you washed your hands afterwards.
OP nott 3 | 594
30 Aug 2010  #26
Entirely on topic this time, wholeheartedly congratulated. Thank you so very much indeed.

MG, the topic is about complaints of Polish immigrants. You made a statement, in a form of question, and that's how the thread originated. If you don't want to back up your statement as it is, nor to modify it, nor to add to it, nor to ask relevant questions, then your presence here is not desired. This topic, imagine that, is not about you. Start a new thread, if you wish, I might even pop in so that you'll have still more fun wiping the floor. But not here, please.
plk123 8 | 4,153
30 Aug 2010  #27
Hard to complain about Nigerians in PL

Poles can find a way. ;) :D

Huh? I am not quite getting your meaning...

can live with the jews but can also slam them when it's convenient.

I don't agree with specifically targeting Poles

Singling out Poles doesn't bother me.

this is why you got the "huh?"
OP nott 3 | 594
30 Aug 2010  #28

:) our ingeniousness is widely known

can live with the jews but can also slam them when it's convenient.

Ah, yes. We are not following our stereotypes blindly :)

this is why you got the "huh?"

Ok. It was like unfinished, the second one. Because
'I don't agree with specifically targeting Poles on the issue as well, but this is Polish forums, about Poles, so this is not much of a problem.' People can make quick simplified remarks, that's life, and we talk Poles here, so it's the easier to utter something that looks like actual singling out. Whether it is or not, remains to be explained. If so, then it bothers me in a way, yes.
NorthMancPolak 4 | 649
30 Aug 2010  #29
Will British Sikhs and Asians also be able to do it, or how about those bloody commonwealth colonials who used to work in the sandwich bars?

The Gurkhas certainly have more right to live in the UK than recent Polish immigrants do. They've done far more for the UK than most Polish cleaners ever will. And my mum's a cleaner now, so that's not meant to be offensive to cleaners generally ;) But you can't compare fighting for a country to mopping floors or serving coffee.

was that all Poles I met consider mixed Jewish-English areas the best for living.

You've just described me and where I live :) But if my block started to fill up with Somalis or Pakistanis, I'd be out of here faster than you can say lokshen kugel! Some people just don't get along, and that's the way it is.

Jews - tough in price negotiations

If I told you just how good a deal I managed to talk my Jewish landlord and Jewish lettings agency into, you'd be surprised ;) :D
OP nott 3 | 594
30 Aug 2010  #30
Shame about Gurkhas, yes. Good that it ended well, afaik.

But if my block started to fill up with Somalis or Pakistanis, I'd be out of here faster than you can say lokshen kugel!

lokshen kugel. You're damn fast, man! :)

Somalis get along well with Somalis. And no need to evade evaluation.

This having said, I work with a Somali girl, and no problems. Very nice person.

Edit:
She's spent most of her life in Finland, now I remember...


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