Anglos don't distinguish kasza from Kasia?

Whilst teaching Polish to English speakers has anyone run into an Anglo learner who could not distinguish the ś sound from sz? How did you deal with the problem?

Describe the position of the tongue when pronouncing the words. Or get students already familiar with phonetics :-)

Polonius3
My dad allways said ś = Si
Sz= Szy

It's not correct but it made me see the difference :=)

I can say them but I can't hear them. How do you learn to hear the difference.

I can usually say them okay but I don't hear the difference (except before i or y) or unless i'm concentrating really hard when someone is saying them together.

But the functional load of the difference in connected speech is small enough that you can learn to understand everything without hearing the difference.

Yep, I've got a method. If you try to say "sh" with a wide smile, you get close to "si" - the soft one. Now purse your lips as if you were going to say the "u" in "put". Now do your "sh". That's close to the "sz".

If you're a cricket fan and you like the abstract, then "si" is a gentle little glance down to third man, and "sz" is a crisp chop down to deep point.

So, there is a difference??? Argh.... Still many efforts to come ;-)
By the way Polonius, now that we're at it, is there a difference between "u" and "ó" ?

There is no difference at all in pronunciation between "ó" and "u", but there are associated spelling rules to learn. In fact, these two vowels cause the greatest number of orthographic errors amongst native Polish speakers.

Thanks. Well can you list these rules, because I couldn't find them in my grammar book. That would be something helpful. ;-)

Sorry, didn't realise I was your free personal tutor. Be grateful for what you get, and stop expecting to have everything handed to you on a plate.

However, I managed to find a section on it quite easily, so here it is, but I ain't translating it for you:

[5] 2.1. Zakres użycia litery ó:
a) jeśli wymienia się w formach fleksyjnych lub pokrewnych z samogłoską o lub e, np.
móc — mogę, lód — lodem, dróżka — droga, pióro — pierze, brzózka — brzezina;
b) w rdzeniach czasowników w formach jednokrotnych w opozycji do wielokrotnych, w których wymienia się z głoską a, np.
wrócić — wracać, skrócić — skracać, mówić — mawiać;
c) w cząstce -ów występującej jako końcówka lub część przyrostka:
- w dopełniaczu liczby mnogiej rzeczowników rodzaju męskiego, np. stołów, zeszytów, panów;
- w przyrostkach -ów, -ówna, -ówka, np. Głogów, Kraków, Wojasówna, Cząstkówna, Kucówna, biodrówka, kreskówka, kartkówka;

d) w niewielu wyrazach na początku, np.
ósemka, ósmy, ów, ówczesny, ówdzie;
e) w pewnej liczbie wyrazów, w których nie zachodzi wymiana na o lub e, a których pisownia ma uzasadnienie historyczne, np. mózg, ogólny, równanie, stróż, źródło.

UWAGA: Litera ó nie występuje nigdy na końcu wyrazu.

[6] 2.2. Zakres użycia litery u:
a) w wielu przyrostkach, np.
-uch - gnieciuch, dzieciuch
-uchna - córuchna, matuchna
-uchny - leciuchny, ładniuchny
-ula - babula
-ulek - tatulek
-uleńka - damuleńka
-ulka - brzydulka
-ulo - mężulo
-unek - malunek, pakunek
-unia - ciotunia, lalunia
-unio - dziadunio, stryjunio
-uńcia - córuńcia
-us - dzikus, lizus
-usia - córusia, matusia
-uszek - garnuszek, maluszek
-uszka - kaczuszka
-uszko - serduszko
-uś - dziadziuś, synuś
-uśki - miluśki
-utki - biedniutki, milutki;
b) w formach czasu teraźniejszego zakończonych na -uję, -ujesz, -uje, np. promuję, promujesz, promuje, gotuję, gotujesz, gotuje;
c) ponadto literę u piszemy zawsze tam, gdzie nie ma uzasadnienia pisownia ó.
UWAGA: W wyrazach zasuwka, skuwka, okuwka, zakuwka u nie należy do przyrostka, lecz do rdzenia (zasuwać, skuć, okuć, zakuć), dlatego piszemy je przez u, mimo że po tej literze występuje w (por. 2.1., punkt c).

Wow, I just notice today that you replied to my message. Thank you very much, and sorry for the delay.

Wow! Don't you really hear the difference? I have never thought it could be a problem (maybe that is because I'm Polish).

"Sz" sounds a little bit like a wind blowing outside, while the "ś" sound reminds peeing, doesn't it?

Nope, can't hear it at all. I can say it.

One has the tongue on the roof of the mouth and the other has a relaxed tongue.

Thats soooo funny!
Just imagine this: "Prosię postawić szę na moim miejscu" :-D

("proszę" - please; "prosię" - a little, young pig)

I think quite a few say szę instead of się. But there are worse mistakes you can do.

I think an English man would just say their /ʃ/ sound in both cases, especially as it's a sound sort of between our /sz/ and /ś/. At least I've hear my Irish professor pronounce it like that:)

A good way to practice is to say Cieszę się, że jesteś. There you have the ci, ze, si, że, ś sounds, all in one very short sentence.

Also compare cie, szę, się and że in the sentence above.

Its funny you say this because I was walking around saying little pig instead of please.

Are you better at it today?

Not really...

Oh, I see.
And when you say: Witam Was czule, do you say czule or ciule?

I'm not the pope! I say czule... I just don't hear the difference most of the time.