News / Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights? [1169]


You are absolutely and most certainly not in line with the teachings of the Church. I've quoted the Catholic Primate of Ireland on this forum before and I'll do it again as he's a senior churchman appointed by the Vatican and therefore speaks globally to all Catholics. Speaking about homosexuality he stated last month, "The church's teaching, if it isn't expressed in terms of love - then it's got it wrong," There is no love or charity towards your fellow man in your creed Polonius.


I was taught to be an independent thinker. I don't see myself as part of any group and feel no need to be. If I agree with you I'll say so, equally if I disagree with you I'll say so and the same applies to those you refer to as the 'church bashers'. I disagreed with Harry about all that stuff regarding attendance at Mass. I've disagreed quite amicably with Johnny Reb on what it says in the Bible but I see his point of view and if the man is as he claims, over 80 then I think we have to allow him a bit of leeway. I wouldn't expect someone to change their views at that stage in their life. I try to be fair-minded.

News / Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights? [1169]


Absolutely. And that needs to be said more often. Polonius constantly makes posts and starts threads with only the flimsiest connection to Poland in order to get up on his soap box and start preaching his personal creed.

News / Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights? [1169]


Excellent point.

From my personal observations I would say that some gay people do seem to be promiscuous. I'm not sure if they're more so than heteros though. Polonius lives in a bit of a fantasy world where heteros remain virgins till they marry their childhood sweetheart. In reality the things that young heterosexual Poles get up to would make his virtuous blood run cold.

But if gays are more promiscuous, surely that's part of their culture because until the recent past they couldn't openly have a relationship. So they didn't have the option of having a few boyfriends/girlfriends before ultimately settling down with a partner like their hetero peers. Availability of civil partnerships and marriage support people in going for the choice of a stable, long term relationship.

News / Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights? [1169]


Well now, let me tell you of one case in Ireland which is still spoken of to this day and which had a massive impact in this country which has thankfully had very positive results.

It happened in the early 1980s. A young gay man was beaten to death in a public park in Dublin known to be frequented by gay men. A group of local 'lads' had been dishing out beatings to homosexuals but this time they went too far. The whole country was outraged by what happened. Up till then most Irish people had known and accepted the fact that some people were gay, even my grandparents had nothing against gays. But when this murder took place we realized that that wasn't enough and that we wouldn't tolerate hate crimes.

In the days before the gay marriage referendum people went to the bench in Fairview Park where that poor young guy used to sit and left flowers in his memory. We still remember him.

Polonius you disgust me with your talk of statistics, how dare you reduce a human life to a statisitic, even one such death is a death too many.

And if society hadn't forced gay people to go out cruising in public instead of just going to a normal meeting place like a bar or club, then that murder might never have taken place.

News / Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights? [1169]


Thanks Harry. I didn't express myself very well. I was thinking more of murder by neglect. As Jon says the infant mortality rate was high and I'm sure little was done to care for sick babies.

News / Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights? [1169]


I don't understand the comment Gosc. It was a home for unmarried mothers so obviously the girls were pregnant when they went in there and their babies must have been murdered by the nuns, utterly, utterly shocking but these babies weren't the result of orgies in churches.

News / Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights? [1169]


More old cobblers from you as usual

News / Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights? [1169]


Now that would be a better focus for your energies than all this LGBT stuff. Seeing what you can do to help those in need, and if you're already doing that, which you may well be, what more could you be doing? You've mentioned those with nothing before and you sounded quite sincere about it, so I think you're a decent person at heart with a bit of charity and compassion in you.

News / Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights? [1169]


Levi, why 'gay' orgies - heterosexuals have been doing the same thing for centuries.

Travel / Polish Architecture [147]


Carry me out and bury me decently, where you would you get the patience to deal with them.
Thanks for the link to the paper buildings Jon, stunning. What a pity there isn't more of that kind of thing on this forum. Stuff that's to do with Poland and actually interesting and nice.

News / URGENT: Chechens refugees found a Islamic State in Poland [37]


What a load of old cobblers. You can't possibly compare Poland to the countries you mention. And by the way in Ireland we've had a Muslim population since the 1980s. There is no civil unrest, they never make any demands or try to impose their views, most of them left places like Iraq because they wanted to get away from poverty,political unrest and extremist forms of Islam. I've taught many Muslim children who attend Catholic schools in Ireland. The only trouble I ever had with a Muslim parent was from an Irish woman who'd converted to Islam, some nonsense about disapproving of Hallowe'en and not wanting her child to be in the Christmas play. We just said 'well take her out of the school if you're not happy'. She backed down and we heard nothing more from her.

News / New European Council's report: "Poland oasis of racism, xenophobia and homophobia" ... [343]

I was also wondering whether Levi has ever been harrassed, threatened or assualted by Muslims. Also in the off-topic section he says he lives in Arabia. Why live amongst Muslims if you dislike them so much? At the same time I completely agree that Muslims who don't approve of alcohol etc should either put up and shut up or choose to live in an Islamic state instead.

Back to the topic

News / New European Council's report: "Poland oasis of racism, xenophobia and homophobia" ... [343]


Now Polonius I read the article about that which you linked me to a few days ago, and it proved to be load of hot air that will come to nothing. Anyway, France abolished its incest laws in the 1700s and how many married/co-habiting brothers and sisters do you see there??

Again.....everyone back on topic

News / New European Council's report: "Poland oasis of racism, xenophobia and homophobia" ... [343]


No I'm afraid you can't do that.


Sermon on the mount Johnny and something for you to reflect on, on the Sabbath day:

'But I say to you, Love your enemiesand pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect'.

Not trying to be awkward here. But both yourself and Polonius base much of your reasoning on Scripture and you're understanding of Scripture is flawed. I know some people think the pair of you are hilarious but I'm a Catholic myself and to be honest I find your views upsetting. I've never in my life felt compelled to quote Scripture on a chat forum or anywhere else......As for Gumishu and his bizarre words about God not having power to change people's hearts???? And suggesting that we pray for Muslims to be wiped off the face of the earth? Where, in the name of the Almighty did you guys receive your Catholic instruction/education??

News / New European Council's report: "Poland oasis of racism, xenophobia and homophobia" ... [343]


Johnny, I'm sorry but God commands us to love everyone. Those who have no faith are particularly in need of your prayers and those who are not of the Christian faith, are not necessarily bad or evil people. I know you're not anti-semitic for example, but I know that you have a thing about Muslims. If you really feel that certain Muslims are a danger then you should be praying for them that they will have a change of heart and make peace with their Christian brothers. I have a very old prayer book/missal published in 1936, long before Vatican II, which instructs us very clearly. Q: Are those of other faiths dammned? A: Most assuredly not.

As for homosexuals or lesbians, many of them are Christians or have some religious faith. And even if they don't, they are God's children as much as you or I. He is their father and he loves them.

I would strongly advise you to try to go on a weekend retreat to one of the enlightened orders such as the Franciscans and seek counsel from them regarding the un-Christian feelings you are harbouring in your heart. I'm serious about that. It's positively sacreligious to be using your Catholic faith as a justification for your views.

News / New European Council's report: "Poland oasis of racism, xenophobia and homophobia" ... [343]



And we're off! I knew you'd be out of the starting blocks lickety split on this one. Off you go now and read the prayer of St Francis "Lord make me an instrument of your peace'.

News / Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights? [1169]


Is that the Catholic version?? As Catholics we are not supposed to read other versions because the translations are not reliable. And we're not supposed to interpret the Bible ourselves in case we get it wrong. You're supposed to consult a 'scholarly churchman' ie a well educated priest of one of the more intellectual orders. Anyway as far as I'm concerned if Jesus didn't say it I'm not interested.

News / President-Elect of Poland, Duda, rescues Eucharist [45]

Oh for God's sake, and I speak as a Catholic. Why is he awesome? Anyone brought up as a Catholic would do the same thing.

USA, Canada / American people attitude towards Poles in the USA [98]


Love it Johnny. Let's hear more of it please! Reminds me of Elvis and Poke Salad Annie. How she'd go on down and pick herself a mess of it every day...........and yes you should definitely go to Poland and introduce them to English southern style. God, some people on this forum really have a total sense of humour bypass and a complete lack of appreciation of other cultures.

USA, Canada / American people attitude towards Poles in the USA [98]


As an Irish person, I can understand it. Perhaps some arrogant individuals pretend they can't. And it sounds beautiful and musical to my Irish ears.

Life / Boy Scouts in Poland = Patriotism, honesty, and self-sacrifice [13]

Yes that was the original idea. Sadly the profile of the boy scout is changing somewhat. For one thing it's quite an expensive hobby in Poland. Many working class kids can't afford to join because the uniform, money for trips, camping gear etc are beyond their parents' budget. In Ireland I actually saw girl scouts in uniform throwing litter in a park. As a teacher, I couldn't ignore it, walked up to them and said 'So that's what they teach you now in scouts girls, is it?' They picked up the litter.

News / Polish parliament refuses to consider shack-up draft between both traditional and same-sex couples [96]

Well now that's a bit of a leap of imagination, assuming somebody is in the closet. Polonius doesn't like any form of union between anybody that doesn't conform to the doctrine and dogma of the Catholic Church.

News / Polish parliament refuses to consider shack-up draft between both traditional and same-sex couples [96]


It's known as a la carte Catholicsm where people pick and choose the bits of the religion that they want to follow and ignore the bits they don't. Most modern, progressive/reform Catholics are guilty of that including myself. It also works the other way with the very traditional ones who use certain doctrines to support their own agenda, but conveniently ignore the commandment to love your neighbour as yourself and deny their neighbour equal rights within the law. After all nobody is asking that same sex couples be allowed to marry in church, merely that they can have a civil marriage like any citizen.

Incidentally Harry, what about Judaism where a girl can marry at 12????? But I'd defy you to find a Catholic priest or a rabbi who'd actually carry out such marriage ceremonies. Of course these laws are hopelessly antiquated, dating from a time when life expectancy was low and people routinely married in their early teens. Look at Romeo and Juliet, she's fourteen and her mother is probably not more than thirty. Should be changed of course. We need a Vatican III.

News / Polish parliament refuses to consider shack-up draft between both traditional and same-sex couples [96]

Polonius, obwiandonnelly's attitude is very cynical but yours is very unkind and not worthy of a Christian. To dismiss the marriage vows taken by people in civil marriages as worthless is not right.

News / Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights? [1169]

I think one has to realise that Poland never really experienced the cultural revolution of the 1960s because it was essentially a Soviet state. Whilst 'free' Europe underwent a gradual change in attitudes over the last five decades, Poland has been pitchforked into debates like gay marriage equality, that it simply isn't ready for. People keep mentioning Ireland, but Ireland's history is very different to Poland. We have been a free nation for almost a hundred years and we had a basically democratic infrastructure left in place by the British. We are culturally much more similar to Britian than to Poland and we generally follow the same trends as the UK but about ten years later.

News / Polish parliament refuses to consider shack-up draft between both traditional and same-sex couples [96]


My personal definitiions of what is 'normal:

Heterosexuality is the norm because nature has created most people hetero.

Heterosexuality: Natural, normal
Heterosexuality with deviancy/fetishes: abnormal but acceptable between consenting adults
Homosexuality: Natural, abnormal (in that it deviates from the heterosexual norm)
Paedophilia: Unnatural, abnormal

Not in the least confused. Bob's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt.

News / Polish parliament refuses to consider shack-up draft between both traditional and same-sex couples [96]

Yes, of course, not everyone has that attitude. What would your own view be Obiwandonnelly as to why Poland doesn't want to acknowledge co-habiting couples?

News / Polish parliament refuses to consider shack-up draft between both traditional and same-sex couples [96]

Obiwandonnelly, I suspect you've never lived in Poland. It is a very conservative country and co-habiting couples are viewed by many as 'living in sin'. So the Polish parliament does not favour giving un-married couples equal status with their married counterparts. It would be seen as condoning 'immoral' behaviour. Like all people in power, their chief interest is staying in power and if they think that a change in the law would alienate their supporters and lose them votes, they won't change the law. Simple as that.

News / Polish parliament refuses to consider shack-up draft between both traditional and same-sex couples [96]

Okey doke. It's all getting very complicated!

News / Polish parliament refuses to consider shack-up draft between both traditional and same-sex couples [96]

Sorry Polonius, I'm not sure if you're asking me that question or just commenting on the thread in general? I know we're not allowed to use quotes if we're replying to the last comment posted so I was just checking.