History / Most important Poles and Slavs that ever lived [74]

Tesla was a real scientist.... Edison was just JP Morgan's suka...

History / Most important Poles and Slavs that ever lived [74]

My Polish favorites:

Chopin, Kosciuszko, the entire Hussar brigades that drove 12 foot pikes up the @$$ of any Austian, Russian, or German that stepped into Polish territory, Pope John Paul II, Maximilian Kolbe, Marie Curie, Kasimir Pulaski, Donald Tusk, Adam Mickiewicz, Henryk Sienkiewicz, Kamil Cyprian Norwid, Adamczyk - boxer, and the dude who commanded the army (Pilsudzski??) in the 1910's and was able to beat back the Russians in an event also known as 'the miracle on the Wisla' where Poland rerouted a Russian army of over 100k and took a good 75% of them prisoner while killing/wounding the rest - very few escaped, and all the PL soldiers and patriots that defended our motherland...

Polish people I don't like

Mr. Anna Gorodzka - I'm not happy about the fact that we have a transgender MP... and it looks freakin disgusting especially with that huge ass mole next to her lip...

Lech Walesa - terrible president...
Eminem - supposedly he's Polish... not born there though of course
like 99% of the Polish women who belong to the Saint Constance parish in Chicago becasue all they do is gossip and will even flat out lie about their childrens' achievements to one up your childrens' achievements...

Shimon Perez - Polish jew
Sarah Silverman - one of the worst actresses ever - also a PL jew

Love / Observations and experiences so far about Polish women [93]

Values and morals are a rarity in modern society. I have yet to get laid for holding the door for an old lady so I'm going to keep getting laid because I'm young, handsome, and fairly wealthy. You can keep your high horse.

Life / Polish people are the most ignorant people in the world! [331]

You're lucky you can hide behind your computer screen because if you said that Polish people are ignorant to me or any of my Polish brothers and sisters I'd rip your face off and wipe my ass with it..

Polish people aren't any more or less ignorant than other nationalities... Poland has been home to some of the most influential and intellectual people in the world - Marie Curie, Chopin, Pope John Paul II, Casimir Pulaski, Donald Tusk, Jan Matejko, and countless others. Poland has been at the forefront of medicine, science, mathematics, art, poetry, political science, and international business for hundreds of years - from the golden years of Poland when it was the 4th largest country in Europe and pushed back the Ottoman Empire, to the defeat of the Russians at the Battle of Vistula, to the reconstruction after WW2 which has allowed Poland to now have an economy roughly the same size as that of Sweden in terms of nominal GDP. There are now 2 Polish billionaires and thousands of Polish millionaires living in Poland and abroad.

Next time you belittle a country and its people why don't you first think of where you come from and the faults and hipocrocies of your own culture. Has there never been a thief, murderer, fascist, alcoholic, rapist, etc. where you come from?

USA, Canada / PolAms -- do you regard yourselves only as 'white Americans'? [187]

Then you'd have to have Irish American, French American, etc... it'd be too complicated...

White = Caucasian as the theory is white people originated from the Caucusus.

However, yes I agree. Russia is rather mixed since you have Chechens, Uzbeks, Tartars, Mongols, Tajiks, etc. all claiming 'Russian' and many still do now. I have respect for others' cultures, but I'm not going to move to the West side of Chicago just beause I want to live in a 'diverse' area...I'll take my WASPy suburban bubble thank you very much.

Love / Do Polish girls lose their virginity later than most [14]

Amongst the older generations - definetely... but in general many PL girls tend to be very conservative and oftentimes will even wait till marraige (or at least be together for a loooong time) before sex... My girlfriends parents never had oral sex in their lives because they think it's perverted.. Can you imagine that? Not only are they married, he's never had a bj and she's never been eaten out... no wonder they were all tense..

I don't understand why anyone would wait till you're married to have sex. Sex is so beautiful and wonderful - possibly the best thing on earth. What if you're with someone for such a long time and you get married just to find out that you're sexually incompatible. Or worse, what if your wife sees all 3 inches of you and now she's stuck with you for good....Not cool...

That's just my 2 cents though.. then again I'm more sexually liberated and open than most. I won't ever push to have sex with a girl and I respect a woman's body, but if she made me wait till marriage that would be a deal breaker.

USA, Canada / The history of Polish mafia in Chicago, Illinois [51]

The only Polish organized crime in the US that has any standing or recognition is probably going to be the Greenpoint Crew and Kielbasa Posse which are in NY...

In Chicago, there is no Polish mafia anymore. There might be a few guys that steal cars, sell drugs, white collar crime (real estate related), etc. together but no like mafia.

The closest thing to a PL mafia in Chicago would be either a group of guys like those I mentioned above. Also, the Almight GL's and Insane South Side Popes use to have a few Polish members back in the day...

Love / Observations and experiences so far about Polish women [93]

Englishman - I doubt I'll be lonely because I have plenty of family and friends and I naturally have an extroverted personality and love meeting new people. I don't need a woman to make me happy as I'm happy with myself. Nonetheless, I don't plan on being without partners - just not married or with kids. Everything is sticky and/or broken in my friends' houses who already have kids. Personal choice and it's more career related and I want to be able to travel and work abroad with anyone holding me back. Also, women love misogynistic ********... I'm not Brad Pitt, I'm twice as drunk as the people around me at the club, I get into fights, I make a good living but I'm not super wealthy yet I have better luck with women than my friends who might be better looking or whatever.

I know plenty of people who are single in their senior years and happier than a lot of the married couples. In fact, many of them act more youthful and are more lively. I have a girlfriend now but we're not serious and the relationship is more casual. However, if we needed each other the other would be there in an instant.

And no, of course not all 50+ year old PL women let themselves go... there's many that are still very fit, wear fashionable clothes and high heels, have a healthy sex life with their partner, etc. Remember it takes two... if you're going to let yourself go and not go down on your wife/gf/etc. every once in a while don't expect her to keep up her appearances and do the same for you

If you want an accurate representation of Polish women and how immigrant Polish people act, look, talk, etc. come to Chicago and drive up and down Belmont Ave. You'll notice a difference between those Polish people and the ones in Poland. The ones in Poland are oftentimes much classier, more beautiful, more cultured, etc. In Chicago though you'll see everyone from the balding 50 year old contractor with a gut who still wears socks with sandals (this was a 90's Polish people in Chicago phenomenon it seems like lol) with his wife asking him whether he wants bigos or golabki for dinner to the beautiful tall leggy and busty blonde haired blue eyed Polish girls walking into Jedynka, a popular club for PL people.

Congrats on your experience in Warsaw = )

Also, I don't know if this is still the case now but I know it was common in the city the last few times I was in PL. They called it 'sponsorship' in the US it would be called a sugar daddy, kept woman, etc.. Oftentimes, young beautiful women would be with older successful men, oftentimes exclusively, and the man would help provide for them - clothes, school supplies, etc. They usually wouldn't live together but oftentimes these relationships would last several years like till the woman graduated college or whatever and they'd be loyal to their man during the relationship.

Life / My experience in Poland 15 years ago as an American trying to live and work there. [149]

yeah you're probably right... I was kind of going off an assumption.. maybe early 90s that could've been the price (probably closer to like 10k 20k even) but yes in the 80s i highly doubt it was worth much... regardless though, they made off pretty well when they sold their house in the 2000s because of all the development around Wroclaw airport. I believe the area is either called Zlotniki or Krzyki or something..

lol we still have some of our old ration cards. one of my friends memories as a kid was being in a pewex store lol and my grandma's boyfriend selling US dollars in front of it. Fortunately, my grandparents from my dads side were in the meat business back then and still are (along with a couple other small ventures - they have a lil deli/grocery store, a stand in the Wroclaw rynek where they sell meats, and a metal fabrication shop). So we were pretty lucky we didn't have to que for much as we could usually trade meat for stuff that we needed. My dad was a jeweler and he frequently went to East Germany to sell or trade his wares as he had connections in West Germany for stuff like jeans, vodka, cigs, and even cars. I was very very young since I was born in 1988 so I have barely any memories of Communism. From what it sounds like though they were pretty well off since a lot of people couldn't afford a new car or a 4 channel stereo with cd player a few years after Communism let alone during it. My dad said he was like the only person in Oborniki with AC DC and Black Sabbath albums lol. I do remember like when they'd buy stuff they'd have to carry a crap load of money as the currency was like almost worthless prior to the revaluation. We have a ton of that old money still laying around but I don't think it's worth anything - even the metal it's made of feels cheap lol.

By the way, do you live in Poland monitor?

Love / Observations and experiences so far about Polish women [93]

One last precaution from my previous post :

My friend who's a corporate attorney (also Polish) married this Polish blonde bimbo that was like 10 years younger than him... Yeah, her and her $20k boob job took off with his Porsche Cayenne and half his estate... only took em about 5-7 years... She cheated on him during several of those years fyi.

So perhaps don't get married or get a pre-nub if you're gf is half your age...

Life / My experience in Poland 15 years ago as an American trying to live and work there. [149]

Thanks for the reply Monitor.

Wow I'm surprised there's so much home ownership. That was really shocking to read. I guess maybe it's because homes get passed down and also use to be much cheaper than they are now. The house I was born in probably wasn't worth much more than maybe $40-$70k back in the late 80s early 90s even though it was a nice two story home in a decent area. However, with the expansion of Wroclaw airport and a lot of development around the area, my parents sold the home around 2007 2008 for I believe 150k. If they would've waited till now they would've probably got 200-250k USD.

It amazes me though how expensive some real estate is in PL relative to peoples' earnings.

So it seems like if I could get 5300-5800 net I wouldn't have too bad of a lifestyle but i wouldn't live . It seems like such a small amount though when converted to dollars - $1933 a month... There's no way I'd really be able to save up money but I wouldn't be moving to PL for that. Also, this would be something I'd liek to do for 3 ears or soI'd probably live with roommates or with my grandparents' in their guest house to save on rent. They live in Oborniki Slaskie which is about the same distance as Sroda Slaska from Wroclaw, perhaps a tad closer. I also like the town of Trzebnica a lot and I have cousins that live in Prusice - more of a rural small town. Due to the crappy roads, it would take us about 45 min - 1 hour to get from Oborniki to Wroclaw. Still though, that's doable. I drive about 1.5 hours every as it is now to work and back and I have one of the shortest commutes out of the employees.

Oborniki Slaskie claim to fame - I believe the current President of PL was born there.

I could always wait a couple years till I'm in a place in my career and have an MBA and already work as a higher level manager. I do know that a lot of Western companies look for managers to send abroad and be the head of an operation. My current company offered to send me to Spain at $17 an hour but I really don't want to be a customer service manager lol. Although living in Madrid would be pretty awesome.

Love / Observations and experiences so far about Polish women [93]

Take a younger girl PL girl for the youthful fun, her good looks, and sex.. take a woman you're age if you're more family oriented...

If you want your wife to complain a lot, be pessimistic, and look super hot in her 20's and 30's but then look like a Maytag fridge by the time she's 50 and cut her hair really short - then marry a PL girl..

Personally, I'm not the marrying, have kids type but I respect people who strive for that. By 50's housewife mentality I'm more referring to the women who strive to have families, kids, and are a stay at home housewife as is very common in PL culture even though the women are oftentimes very educated. Although things are changing now and many women want a career of their own.

And I never said 30's is old.. I'm almost 30.. just an observation I noticed amongst that particular age group - more noticeable amongst those who are 40+ though. I think Communism might've had something to do with that.

But yes, if you're 40 why wouldn't you want to hook up with a younger girl? If you've got the means and the ability to date a younger girl and enjoy the things that comes with that relationship then do it, why not. I'd still be dating 20 year olds even if im 60 if she liked me for my personality and not just financial security.. I wouldn't care what people think plus a lot of it might be jealousy - ( How does this grandpa have a girlfriend hotter and younger than mine!?! ) I personally don't mind women that want to be with a rich man. A lot of the 'materialistic' girls would push me to work harder, make more money, advance my position and status. There's a difference between gold diggers and girls like that. The gold diggers just take from you - they don't bother to push you to do even better. It's different to want to be with someone who has cash and it's different to be a gold digger and only like them for their money.

So yeah dude do it. There's plenty of Polish girls that are young and want to be with an older, more mature guy. Just be careful of the ones that are only out for your money. There's a difference between liking nice things and wanting your man to succeed and using him because he gives you a Mercedes to drive around in...

Life / My experience in Poland 15 years ago as an American trying to live and work there. [149]

How is it though that like even though in PL people don't make much but yet they seem to like get by. Not many seem to be like going hungry, without clothes, etc. and oftentimes they have even basic luxuries like a lower end German car, a flat screen TV, etc.

Are you really asking this question seriously?

In a way yes, it's more of a cultural question and on family/community dynamics I'd suppose. But in a way yes, I mean obviously if you don't make as much money you can't afford an IPad on say the median 2900 zl salary - that'd be essentially an entire month's salary. Yet, I have seen even people driving newer cars that cost say 12k EU yet they only make 10k EU and I know there's not nearly as much of a credit culture as in the West. I've even seen a couple guys with new Harleys even in my grandparents' little town (Oborniki Slaskie - about an hour outside of Wroclaw, small town maybe 10k 20k people) and I'm pretty sure they're 'middle class' just like most people there - getting by on perhaps 2k-2.5k ZL a month if they work locally, maybe 3k-3.5k if they're lucky or commute to and from Wroclaw.

If according to that chart, 2900 zl a month is the average salary ($966 a month) take out 20% for taxes and such that leaves you with 2,300 zl. Also, there's probably more people making 2900 zl in Warsaw than say a smaller city/town. Let's say that you make 2900 zl a month though - 2300 after taxes. Say you're paying even only 1000 zl a month for rent + utilities ($333 - this is probably a low estimate??) and another 600 zl a month for food and say another 600 zl for gas, transport, misc. expenses that's almost your entire salary - 100zl remains.. Maybe there's more dual income households now... Or maybe just more hand me downs, uncles/aunts/cousins help the youngins and not just the parents - I guess maybe since there's more a 'family' culture that lowers the burden of expenses. That's really more the question - like is it more typical to have a multigenerational household? Do other family members besides just parents help with the costs of a child like tuition, upbringing, toys, etc.

The experience I'm basing this on is mainly my family since I have everyone from lower middle class cousins that live in a rural area outside of Wroclaw to a wealthy uncle and aunt who have over 7 figures in assets and of course plenty of babcias, ciocias, etc. that live in the apartment blocks, a few own their own home, etc. I guess the poorer people can manage with a lower wage since food is cheap and they rent their place - usually an apartment in the Communist style 'bloki' and typically use public trans or have some older car like a Maluch or Fiat Cincuento (forgot how it's spelled, first car I learned how to drive - was basically a 50 horsepower lawnmower...)

I have noticed though that typically only the upper middle class are able to afford homes - the rest rent and home ownership is highly unlikely for them.

Well yes, $60k annually in PL is totally unrealistic at this point since that'd be 15k ZL a month. However, somewhere between 8k to 10k ZL a month I think would be pretty realisitc. In the U.S. I make a pretty average 'salary' in terms of the average American but rather high for my age and education (25 years old, recent college grad) - $18 an hour which is approx $38,000 a year (2100 hour work year - some overtime included). However, with commission it's easily another $20-$30k and that brings it to $58k-$68k. Also, health, dental, eye, life, tuition reimbursement is included which would be another 10k in benefits.

In Poland it appears that most medical device/pharma sales reps average 3500-4200 ZL salary in a larger city, and manager make much more - anywhere from 4000 to 8000 but I'll use the rep as an example since it's highly unlikely i'd be given a managerial position right away with a new employer. (Google pays their sales reps in Wroclaw about 3000 ZL a month + commission but theyre on the low end compared to a lot of other companies) Anyway, so 3500 ZL salary plus commission which is usually equal to salary, gives me a total of 7000 ZL a month. Still short of that 10000 ZL a month - that would be realistic for a manager, but not a regular rep unless they've been on the job already a few years and have a solid book of biz. Also, I typically always work a 2nd job or do odd jobs to make extra cash which in the US brings me an extra $8-10k a year now. I could do something similar in PL whether it's a quick construction job, helping with marketing, setting up a network, private tutoring, English lessons, start a business, etc.

So after doing some research, participating in this convo, and such, it looks like 7000ZL to 8000ZL would be a reality though with salary, commission, and making some extra side money....

Now, what kind of lifestyle could I expect on say 6500ZL-7000ZL a month (with a month every once in a while with an extra 1000zl here and there)? I would probably live with my grandparents at first but would end up renting an apartment. I am single and have no kids. Would I be able to afford renting a flat in downtown Wroclaw or a nicer area? Are the suburbs (ones that are 40km or less from city center) typically more expensive or cheaper than living in the city? Would I be able to afford driving a car and not have to take public trans? (I would probably bring my car over from the US or take my grandpa's Honda CRV turbodiesel). Would I have enough money left over for going out on the weekends?

And yes, in some cases having a Western degree hurts your chances from what I read. However, in many cases large corporations and the recruiters they hire only want those with a Western education. It depends on the company, the job, etc.

Thanks a ton for that link! That helps a lot... So it looks like I'm not too far off... (these are in Netto)

Financial Director 13000 (would def need an MBA + 3-5 years post-mba experience)
Sales Director 10000 - same as above

But there's a few here that don't require an MBA and are within my education and experience level:

Financial Controller - 5800
Key Account Manager - 5400

So it looks like my estimates aren't too far off. If I'm estimating say 7500 ZL a month and after tax (not sure what tax rate is - I'll say 23%) is 5800 net.. not much in dollars (that's only $1,933 a month...)

I'm guessing these positions and their respective earnings are including like everything together (median salary + commission for the sales type jobs, bonuses for the rest) since there's no way a key account manager would make 5800 ZL net salary + commission (typically commission is equal to anywhere from 50%-100%+ of salary - depending on the structure).. unless he/she is the best account executive in Warsaw or something..

Love / Observations and experiences so far about Polish women [93]

The women in Poland typically have that '50's housewife mentality' especially ones that are in their 30's, 40's and beyond...

It's more the PL women who are younger and/or emigrated to the UK, US, etc. in search of better opportunities that are typically more independent. And yes, Polish women in general are often very well educated.

Life / My experience in Poland 15 years ago as an American trying to live and work there. [149]

I found this website that offers a lot of info about salaries in PL - It's from a head hunter firm so I'd assume it's pretty accurate....

hays.pl/cs/groups/hays_common/documents/digitalasset/hays_465124.pdf

Seems like medical sales jobs, especially managers/directors, pays half decent. If I could find a job that paid me at least 10k PL a month (combo of salary, benefits, commission, etc.) I would move in a heartbeat. I'm pretty confident that this might happen sooner or later - I got two decent offers from my current employer to work abroad... ah if only they had a PL office = /

I'm going to contact this firm and see if anything happens.... Anyone have experience with these guys or any other recruiters?

And yes, the old politicians create a lot of red tape in PL. I was amazed at how much paperwork my parents had to go through to sell their house in Wroclaw. I think the neighborhood was called Krzyki (kind of freaky - literal translation means 'screams')

Love / Observations and experiences so far about Polish women [93]

Do you guys think I will have a hard time attracting a girl that's 25 years old? Or younger?

I make decent money in America...."really good" in Poland.

Yes you will. I have found Polish girls often care less about looks and even personality in a way and more into 'moldability' and your status in society. However, some things could be a deal breaker - like some PL girls are uber Roman Catholic and won't want a relationship with someone that's say Lutheran. Of course, my generation though is a bit more open minded and liberal than that of my parents and grandparents. There's a big contrast amongst the attitudes, personalities, and often desires of PL girls in the US/Western World and those still in PL.

In Chicago, you will easily find a beautiful PL girl if you're a sucessful male, generous to her, and treat her well. There's a popular Polish club on the N side of Chicago (Martini Club) and you'll find balding 40 year old contractors (one of the most common professions for PL male immigrants) with a young hottie on their arm because they got a 7-series or S-class and a big house in the burbs.. However, a lot of PL people, esp those fresh off the boat or 1st gen in the U.S., like to flaunt wealth they don't really have... that 7-series or S-class could be a salvage title and that house doesn't have much equity in it...

Again, of course I'm stereotyping and generalizing - while there are many relationships I've known that PL girls got into because of the sense of security (ultimately the most important thing to a woman) and left their man when the good financial times soured, there are also those that have stuck by their man through good and bad. I find the latter to be more common in older couples, especially those who lived in PL during Communism.

Love / Observations and experiences so far about Polish women [93]

Of course I'm stereotyping here but this is the experiences I've observed in my life...

Pro's: very sexy - oftentimes some of the best looking girls around but as far as personality for the most part modest, boring, conservative, ambitious, intelligent, clean, great fashion sense, religious - namely Roman Catholic, like to dance, very much still in tuned with the '50's housewife' mentality if that's your thing and it often is in marraige, independent in terms of personality but oftentimes not financially, likes to drink and party sometimes (but looks at drugs even pot with disgust). PL Woman can be the most loyal too though if you find the right one.

cons: oftentimes very materialistic, likes to argue, very insecure with image and self, strives for family and material wealth, self-centered, willing to screw people over for personal gain or prestige, boring in bed - totally vanilla even the more 'freaky' ones have nothing on Dutch, German, French, etc. or even Black girls, PL girls will leave you for someone with more money, boring sex drive, loves to gossip and one up her friends, will make their bf/husband do things they won't want to do or complain when a guy just wants to go drink with his buddies or watch tv., overly conservative mindset, oftentimes racist and judgmental,

I am a 26 year old manager at a healthcare corporation and have dated all types of girls. However, the things I want in life are oftentimes different than the 'average' males. Hence, a 'con' of mine might be a 'pro' for another male.

I personally don't want to marry or have kids. I also prefer the more 'atypical' type of girl - my dream girl would be beautiful, likes to ride ATVs and shoot guns, drinks vodka and smokes pot, very very sexually liberated and kinky, materialistic ambitions but not at the expense of her bf, educated, free thinker, doesn't particularly want family/kids/marraige..

Source(s) - several Polish girlfriends, 100% Polish family - born and raised, I stopped seeking dates with Polish girls after I realized the 4th or 5th one would've become my mom (and like all my Polish friends' moms) if we dated for a long time or it got serious...

My friend who's a corporate attorney married this Polish blonde bimbo that was like 10 years younger than him... Yeah, her and her $20k boob job took off with his Porsche Cayenne and half his estate... only took em about 5-7 years... She cheated on him during several of those years fyi.

Language / What does the phrase 'tak jak' mean? [8]

ooops i read that totally wrong.. lol - you're right... tak jak does mean 'as, similar to, the same as, etc.

Language / What does the phrase 'tak jak' mean? [8]

It's idiomatic for 'what's up'

guy 1: czesc, jak tam? or czesc, jak sie masz? - hi, whatsup? or hi, how you doing?
guy 2: dobrze good

Off-Topic / What's your connection with Poland? Penpals. [512]

Merged: PL People in the Midwest

Hello, I wanted to see if there's other Poles that also live in the Midwest area - especially Chicago. If so please introduce yourself and tell us a little about yourself. Things like:

1) Name - first name is fine.
2) What city/state are you from
3) Are you born in the US or abroad?
4) Do you speak Polish or any other languages?
5) What do you do for work, for fun, any hobbies/interests?
6) Anything else you want to say...

I'm Adrian. Born in Wroclaw in '88 and moved to Chicago with my family around '94-'95. I lived in Chicago, Fort Lauderdale/Miami, and Cincinnati since arriving in the US. I live in the northern suburbs of Chicago now once again after living in Cinci for 4 years, then Florida for 2, and then Cinci again for 1 year.There was actually a pretty big PL community in South Florida. There was a few PL people I met in Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky but very few and even fewer speak Polish.I speak English, Polish, and am pretty proficient in Spanish and Russian as well. I work as a sales rep within the healthcare industry. I like to travel, go to bars, snowmobiling, 4 wheeling, working on cars, etc.

Real Estate / Ideas how to invest sum of 500,000ZL in Warsaw - real estate is recommended? [20]

If you're looking at investing in property in Poland from my own experience and my families I can tell you that it's not the best time. Values went up quite a bit in the past 10 years in a lot of hot areas - near airports, universities, town squares, etc. Actually, land is rather expensive in Poland. Not crazy high like Tokyo, Moscow, etc. obviously but nonetheless expensive given the average citizen's purchasing power. There are many beautiful condos selling for even 250k EU and as high as 400, 500k EU in Wroclaw now - the city I'm from.

That being said, If you are looking though at real estate, I'd consider an upscale residential rental property in a large city for the long term.

Don't put your money in some bank and wait for interest like from a CD or whatever. Inflation outpaces any 1.XX% gain you'll make. If anything, I recommend annuities from reputable insurance companies as opposed to CDs and such. Typically higher yield and just as safe as a bank.

Personally, as someone who worked as a commodity broker and with various other investments for a couple years, I don't think Poland is the only place you should invest your money. I'm not saying that there aren't good opportunities though either. It sounds like you're looking to invest some money in something that carries little risk to help get you by. I think there's better things than real estate in PL personally but that doesn't mean you can't put a nice chunk of cash down on a property.

The most important thing to do is diversify. Consider a 'safe' investment without much liquidity - real estate or an annuity and use the rest of your cash on an investment with more moderate risk but more liquidity - perhaps some blue chips and consider some commodities too (maybe at a later date...) - silver, gold and oil are really low now and I think they'll go down a tad bit more till January.

History / Chance of Lwów once again became coming part of Poland [344]

now that Russia is already gobbling up Ukraine, I'd say slim to none...

I heard a rumor of Russian diplomats going to PL and offering land in the Ukraine in return for Poland's military support and breaking away from NATO. Naturally, PL got scared... that's probably why there's been this whole thing of 'spies' getting kicked out..

Life / My experience in Poland 15 years ago as an American trying to live and work there. [149]

Wow thanks for all the responses! Holy crap.. lol.. well it looks like I may have to wait a good 5-10 years before I can expat to PL and make the salary I want and/or follow the markets there even more closely... Guess for now it'll be somewhere I'll use my vacations day to visit = / I could do living in Poland but would probably have to travel to Western European countries to really make some decent coin.

When my family moved to the U.S. my mother and father contemplated what to do with the money they saved up. I write this because I'm actually the same as they were at this time - granted this is the late 80's, early 90s. They debated to either move to the US and work (mom was already fluent in English - she worked for Western Electric and we had some connections in Chicago). My dad was a jeweler by trade in Communism and his parents, my grandparents were in the meat business. They also made some money from dollar exchanging, cars/cigs/jeans/electronics/etc. smuggling from West Germany so they were able to put aside some cash. They were either going to purchase a beautiful home in a nice Warsaw suburb or go to Chicago. They chose the U.S. If they bought the house in Warsaw they'd be for Poland since the real estate became hot. In fact, the house I was born in is near the Wroclaw airport and I think they got around 200k USD for it, about 7 years ago. It had an orchard and the property value went up astronomically since we lived there.

In the U.S. job market, it's not hard for me to find a good paying job. I feel I've truly been blessed and very lucky as well because I know a lot of my friends have had a lot of trouble finding a good job. It's got to the point where there's former attorneys applying for secretary and office admin jobs. That's why I feel really blessed since I haven't had to face much if any job insecurity. However, I work like 60-70 hour weeks amongst two jobs, both in sales and a good portion of my income (about 1/2) is commission. Plus I try to make a couple bucks on the market, doing remodeling, etc. I worked as a commodity broker throughout college and made out pretty well when a lot of the well heeled Americans moved their money out of blue chips and into precious metals. You wouldn't believe how many farmers might wear dirty overall everyday and drive a 20 year old truck but have $3 mil in assets. This demographic was about 50% of my clients when I worked as a broker.

I got offered to do a transfer to Bucharest, Romania or Madrid, Spain with my current employer. The offer in Bucharest I wasn't too interested in as I don't know the language at all and I think I would already be a bit out of place in Europe but coming to a country where I have no knowledge of the language would make it a bit harder. Although the pay at 40k USD a year was very enticing.

I did a lot of consideration with Madrid though. They offered me $17 an hour with full benefits (health, dental, life, $5k a year towards furthering education, employer matched 401k, preferred stock, etc.) but the position was for a Customer Service manager. I declined their offer. I'd essentially be doing the same thing but with a larger team, a different country and market, and focused on customer service management rather than sales. One Greek dude who I use to work with took the offer but quit about 5-6 months later although he had kids so I think it could've been more related to his family.

That's unfortuante that salaries are low like that in Poland. I do sense a bit more of an entreprenuerial sprit increasing in Poland and we made it through the recession pretty damn good. I think this will take a while though. I know a lot of the Western world looks to Poland as an IT hub and in a way a source of high skilled but relatively inexpensive labor. Ikea, IBM, HP, Google, as well as various banks I do know have operations in PL. However, I haven't seen too many 'good' job openings in the realm of sales, finance, or management (except IT related) with high salaries. Even the doctors and specialist don't make all that much although more people go towards medicine for passion rather than for a high salary. Nonetheless, even 'average' jobs are rather low still in Poland compared to pockets of Eastern and Central Europe. I've heard of nannies in Moscow getting paid $10-$12 an hour which is quite a bit all things considered. The job I described above the on that I saw in Gdansk for a regional sales manager (which is my title right now actually) is one I would love to do and probably will do something like that in the future in Poland - but perhaps first it would be wise to save up some capital, get more experience, more connections, etc. 30k EU a year + commission I could do and live on, although I am kind of skeptical because that was really the only job I saw despite quite a bit of research that paid that much - most were quite a bit less. Either way, breaking the six figure mark with a job in Poland doesn't look too realistic, at least not in the near future.

I wonder what it would take to make PL a country where the purchasing power of the average citizen exceeds USD $25k annually. I'd be happy if it even was equal to the Czech Republic's. We don't have oil or natural gas, or too much of a domestic market and we don't have as large of a banking sector as the West, but it looks like PL has a good reputation for IT and skilled manufacturing. I know one Polish guy made his million by forming a screen printing company (he has a company that makes the machines that makes t-shirts, hoodies, etc.) and his machines are assembled in PL. He sells to over 70 counties - he has machines brought over from China, assembled in PL, and sold from the Chicago suburb office (sales/marketing and HQ) around the world although most machines end up in the U.S. although Latin America is gradually becoming a larger customer for him.

How is it though that like even though in PL people don't make much but yet they seem to like get by. Not many seem to be like going hungry, without clothes, etc. and oftentimes they have even basic luxuries like a lower end German car, a flat screen TV, etc.

Also, I know it's been a bit since my stats class, but unless I'm reading that chart incorrectly - is that stating that only the top 5.24% in Poland made over 5,000 PLN Brutto in 2010 while the top 2% made over 10k PLN ? (which is about $1,500 USD for 5k pln, $3k USD gross for 10k PLN... I'm assuming that's gross? Netto being after taxes?) If so that's very low and I'm sad to see that... Yeah there's no way there going to pay me 10k PLN a month lol let alone my US income... Not enough to afford a condo, v8 German car, and a couple Polish girlfriends in Wroclaw =/ I'm starting to think that perhaps that sales manager job might have been BS.

Curious, any experience on sales/management/finance or other business professional jobs? Have you, or anyone you know, work as say a real estate person in PL, perhaps in investments? Or something like that??

Also, to the people (like Scottie and Szczerbaty) who lived/live in PL -

What towns/cities did you live in while working there?

And to Szczerbaty - the two apartments you had, did you rent those out as extra income or perhaps live in/share 1 and rent the other out? Congrats - home ownership is very difficult to attain especially in

Poland.

Lastly - 'To become this 1.5% more than American diploma is needed.'

Top 1.5% is pretty damn ambitious. Top 10-15% would be more realistic. Nonetheless, what would you recommend?

I heard that there are those who make 50k Euro gross a year in PL with an MBA from a top school like INSEAD, London School of Business, + 5-7 years experience and/or connections... Is that something along the lines you were thinking of?

Life / First hand experiences of the Mafia in Poland [28]

There isn't much mafia left in Poland anymore... That was more of a post Communism, early to mid 90's type of phenomenon, at least in Poland.. There use to be some groups around Warsaw (Pruszkow and Wolomin) but many of those groups are now defunct...

Most of the criminal activity is based around car theft, especially German cars, and drug trafficking (mainly amphetamines/methamphetamine for domestic consumption and export to other local EU countries)...

The likelihood that you'll have to pay a protection tax is slim to none especially if you're in a good area or in the town square... Don't sell drugs, illegal cigs/booze out of your places and you'll be good... Also, criminal types tend to stick to places, people and things they know - the likelihood that a gang is going to set up shop at the new pub in town is rather low..

Life / My experience in Poland 15 years ago as an American trying to live and work there. [149]

Merged: Any experiences of Americans expatriating to Poland???

After much lurking around and reading random posts I decided to join this site.. mainly because I'm looking to expatriate to Poland soon - like in the next year or two...

A little about me: I'm a 25 year old male and I was born in Wroclaw. I currently reside in Lake Forest Illinois which is about 20 miles north of downtown Chicago. I have family that still lives in Wroclaw as well as other parts of Poland and the rest of Europe (Dortmund, Holland, London, Tychy). My uncle actually owns a popular hotel in Poland (Hotel Piramida in Tychy). I am fluent in English and Polish and am moderately proficient in Russian and Spanish as well. I graduated about 2 years ago with a bachelor's in International Business and will be beginning my MBA (also with a concentration in international business) in the fall. I currently work for a publicly traded corporation outside of Chicago Il that has a couple locations around the world but unfortunately none in Poland.

Most of my experience is in sales, management, and finance. I see that there's a lot of IT and teaching jobs available in Poland but the pay is rather low. The only job I really saw so far on an that interested me was on an online board for a sales manager position and the pay was $30k Euro + commission. I don't expect to make the same salary as I would in the US as costs of living are a bit less in Poland but I would like to make at least the equivalent of $60k-$70k gross annually. I am single and have no kids but I do like to maintain a certain type of lifestyle.

Does anyone have any experiences expatriating to Poland? If so, was it difficult to get a job? Did you have to take a salary cut or did your earnings remain about the same? Did you find a job through a recruiting agency or directly from the employer? Did the employer help with temporary housing and helping you move? Any help or experiences would be appreciated...

Thanks!!!