Life /
My experience in Poland 15 years ago as an American trying to live and work there. [167]
How is it though that like even though in PL people don't make much but yet they seem to like get by. Not many seem to be like going hungry, without clothes, etc. and oftentimes they have even basic luxuries like a lower end German car, a flat screen TV, etc.
Are you really asking this question seriously?
In a way yes, it's more of a cultural question and on family/community dynamics I'd suppose. But in a way yes, I mean obviously if you don't make as much money you can't afford an IPad on say the median 2900 zl salary - that'd be essentially an entire month's salary. Yet, I have seen even people driving newer cars that cost say 12k EU yet they only make 10k EU and I know there's not nearly as much of a credit culture as in the West. I've even seen a couple guys with new Harleys even in my grandparents' little town (Oborniki Slaskie - about an hour outside of Wroclaw, small town maybe 10k 20k people) and I'm pretty sure they're 'middle class' just like most people there - getting by on perhaps 2k-2.5k ZL a month if they work locally, maybe 3k-3.5k if they're lucky or commute to and from Wroclaw.
If according to that chart, 2900 zl a month is the average salary ($966 a month) take out 20% for taxes and such that leaves you with 2,300 zl. Also, there's probably more people making 2900 zl in Warsaw than say a smaller city/town. Let's say that you make 2900 zl a month though - 2300 after taxes. Say you're paying even only 1000 zl a month for rent + utilities ($333 - this is probably a low estimate??) and another 600 zl a month for food and say another 600 zl for gas, transport, misc. expenses that's almost your entire salary - 100zl remains.. Maybe there's more dual income households now... Or maybe just more hand me downs, uncles/aunts/cousins help the youngins and not just the parents - I guess maybe since there's more a 'family' culture that lowers the burden of expenses. That's really more the question - like is it more typical to have a multigenerational household? Do other family members besides just parents help with the costs of a child like tuition, upbringing, toys, etc.
The experience I'm basing this on is mainly my family since I have everyone from lower middle class cousins that live in a rural area outside of Wroclaw to a wealthy uncle and aunt who have over 7 figures in assets and of course plenty of babcias, ciocias, etc. that live in the apartment blocks, a few own their own home, etc. I guess the poorer people can manage with a lower wage since food is cheap and they rent their place - usually an apartment in the Communist style 'bloki' and typically use public trans or have some older car like a Maluch or Fiat Cincuento (forgot how it's spelled, first car I learned how to drive - was basically a 50 horsepower lawnmower...)
I have noticed though that typically only the upper middle class are able to afford homes - the rest rent and home ownership is highly unlikely for them.
Well yes, $60k annually in PL is totally unrealistic at this point since that'd be 15k ZL a month. However, somewhere between 8k to 10k ZL a month I think would be pretty realisitc. In the U.S. I make a pretty average 'salary' in terms of the average American but rather high for my age and education (25 years old, recent college grad) - $18 an hour which is approx $38,000 a year (2100 hour work year - some overtime included). However, with commission it's easily another $20-$30k and that brings it to $58k-$68k. Also, health, dental, eye, life, tuition reimbursement is included which would be another 10k in benefits.
In Poland it appears that most medical device/pharma sales reps average 3500-4200 ZL salary in a larger city, and manager make much more - anywhere from 4000 to 8000 but I'll use the rep as an example since it's highly unlikely i'd be given a managerial position right away with a new employer. (Google pays their sales reps in Wroclaw about 3000 ZL a month + commission but theyre on the low end compared to a lot of other companies) Anyway, so 3500 ZL salary plus commission which is usually equal to salary, gives me a total of 7000 ZL a month. Still short of that 10000 ZL a month - that would be realistic for a manager, but not a regular rep unless they've been on the job already a few years and have a solid book of biz. Also, I typically always work a 2nd job or do odd jobs to make extra cash which in the US brings me an extra $8-10k a year now. I could do something similar in PL whether it's a quick construction job, helping with marketing, setting up a network, private tutoring, English lessons, start a business, etc.
So after doing some research, participating in this convo, and such, it looks like 7000ZL to 8000ZL would be a reality though with salary, commission, and making some extra side money....
Now, what kind of lifestyle could I expect on say 6500ZL-7000ZL a month (with a month every once in a while with an extra 1000zl here and there)? I would probably live with my grandparents at first but would end up renting an apartment. I am single and have no kids. Would I be able to afford renting a flat in downtown Wroclaw or a nicer area? Are the suburbs (ones that are 40km or less from city center) typically more expensive or cheaper than living in the city? Would I be able to afford driving a car and not have to take public trans? (I would probably bring my car over from the US or take my grandpa's Honda CRV turbodiesel). Would I have enough money left over for going out on the weekends?
And yes, in some cases having a Western degree hurts your chances from what I read. However, in many cases large corporations and the recruiters they hire only want those with a Western education. It depends on the company, the job, etc.
Thanks a ton for that link! That helps a lot... So it looks like I'm not too far off... (these are in Netto)
Financial Director 13000 (would def need an MBA + 3-5 years post-mba experience)
Sales Director 10000 - same as above
But there's a few here that don't require an MBA and are within my education and experience level:
Financial Controller - 5800
Key Account Manager - 5400
So it looks like my estimates aren't too far off. If I'm estimating say 7500 ZL a month and after tax (not sure what tax rate is - I'll say 23%) is 5800 net.. not much in dollars (that's only $1,933 a month...)
I'm guessing these positions and their respective earnings are including like everything together (median salary + commission for the sales type jobs, bonuses for the rest) since there's no way a key account manager would make 5800 ZL net salary + commission (typically commission is equal to anywhere from 50%-100%+ of salary - depending on the structure).. unless he/she is the best account executive in Warsaw or something..
