Work / Warsaw vs Kraków (Business and Study - planning to study and possibly live there for a while) [7]

Poland doesn't seem like a bad option. Any other opinions?

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

I still cannot come there, I'm stuck in Israel for the near future ;)
To be honest I've been to Poland twice and I absolutely loved it ... which is why I don't like hearing the bad stories some tell about it because I haven't experienced anything like this myself. My grandma left Post-war Poland under Gomułka's lead, and that was due to anti semitism. I know things have changed since, but it seems to me like both sides still hold grudges against each other deep inside.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

This type of things is what makes me hesitate and think about maybe favoring the much-less religious Czech republic over Poland. I do like Poland more as a country, but I think seeing such things so often might negatively affect my general feeling there, as if they wanted to remind me of the hatred and such. I don't know which way things are gonna go in the future but as far as I understand it, for the time being it has not yet fully perished from the common eye.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

Haha that's a cool one right there, I'd gladly shake the hand of whoever crossed it out over there, be it for whatever reason xD

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

I think that if it wasn't for the heavy influence of the church, things would've seemed much better for Poland in many aspects - not only the Jewish one, no offence of course... just my 2c being a nonreligious fella. It disappoints me to hear that Poland lacks in religious freedom, especially being a part of the "wrong" religion.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

First of all thank you all again for your opinions :) So if I understand correctly, the current form of antisemitism in Poland is mostly "sported" by a minority of now-older fellows, who also tend to do it more verbally and phylosophically let's say, rather than actually and actively spreading it? Furthermore, you say that today's generation is becoming rather oblivious to the whole idea - which is very good news to me.

I would truly like to be accepted should I ever decide to relocate - how do they treat foreigners with a polish background? I assume that most people could see me as "one of them" regardless of my religion? Especially considering the fact I'm by no means the stereotypical Jew ;).

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

I really don't understand it. :\

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]


Let me re-explain :)
Judaism is present in two forms, or rather - divided - into two forms: The religion and the ethnicity.
Some, like I, consider Judaism to be like an ethnic part of the person - So since I was born as a Jew I will always be a Jew whether I believe in god or not. I do respect the Jewish tradition, celebrate Jewish holidays and know the Jewish culture - However I am an atheist, which would make me a kind of "foul" Jew in the eyes of the religious Jews. Some of them say whoever doesn't believe in god and follows his orders in his daily life isn't really a Jew, but I know that no matter what - I will still be considered a Jew by most people because I was born to a purely Jewish family. (BTW, I know Atheists are a kind of problem in Poland themselves, thanks to the church again, but I really don't worry about that since I never really take pride in my Atheism and, being a Jew, I don't think they'd even care anyway like they would if I were Christian)

As for the true part of ethnicity - I am Israeli - first and foremost, before I am Jewish. When people ask me to define my ethnicity I say I'm an Israeli, or an Israeli Jew of Polish descent. I know this might sound as if I was contradicting myself but my Judaism really isn't that big a deal to me.

The Polish descent is showing in some parts of my life; my grandparents speak Polish and I speak to them in Polish sometimes, and my mother is the perfect "Polish mother" stereotype (My grandma too of course) :P

We sometimes eat Polish-Jewish food, as I've said earlier in this thread we are all Polish citizens and in general we know a thing or two about the culture. :)

I am not ashamed of this, quite the contrary, which is why I would like to explore the country by living in it and experiencing life there. I feel I'd be much more comfortable relocationing there rather than anywhere else in Europe, as long as the old antisemitism problems are kept away. :)

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]


As to your first question: Why not? Why would it be better to live in Muslim-packed countries like France, Sweden or England where it's obviously worse to be Jewish?

I ask these people because this is a Polish forum, with (mostly) Polish people, so I trust them to know their own country well enough to answer me. Are you implying they're biased?

If you live in Poland, why don't you tell me then? :)

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

I do wonder sometimes whether its just a kind of paranoia among us and nothing serious in truth, which is why I opened this thread. :)

Thank you all again :)
Might I ask where are you originally from?

P.S. The narrator in that clip has an awfully-bold Israeli accent XD

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]


Tbh, I don't really mind the American Poles. In general, all the 50+ fellas are usually more problematic yet they matter less, being older now.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]


Some of the Jews nowadays tend to have a view about everything East of Germany, including Germany, being anti-semitic and as such automatically stay away from it. It wasn't the first nor the second time I heard the phrase "yehudi" has previously expressed in this thread - "מכל המדינות בעולם דווקא בפולין אתה רוצה לחיות?" - "From all the countries in the world, you wanna live specifically in Poland?"

I am very disappointed by the way the Israeli schools choose to label Poland. As you all probably know, teenagers come every year from almost all of the schools in Israel to visit the death camps, ghettos and forests in which Jews were executed. If they're lucky, and the school has enough money, they also visit the old town in Kraków, go shopping in Warsaw's malls or visit a Polish village to see life there.

And that's where the problem lies - more often than not, the school - whether out of paranoia or out of simple ignorance - talks about the antisemitism in Poland of the 30's and the 40's, and how the students should watch themselves in the streets and they put fear into them by telling them they will have to be protected during the whole trip and that they must look out all the time so that they wouldn't be attacked.

When you bring this together with what the students are exposed to during their visit to the camps, the poor teenagers get the feeling that "Poland=Antisemitism, Camps and Jewish death".

As a Jew whose family died in the Holocaust, I'm not saying that the Holocaust should be forgotten, and I know how important it is to preserve its memory - but I can't stand to hear about students coming to Poland for 3 days just to do a "Death camps marathon" and fly back to Israel. It's not fair towards Poland, no matter the history. They should show the true Poland more, and not fear the Poles as much as they do now. I think it's the mutual fear of "What could happen" and "What would happen" that keeps the two sides from getting along as well as they could.

By the way, I've said it earlier but I'll say it again - I think that if the religion was to be seperated completely from the state, it'd do Poland only good and open the door for it to become the most advanced country in Eastern Europe by far.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]


Church influence has A LOT to do with it. I think the primary reason that antisemitism in Poland even existed in the first place was because "Żydzi ukrzyżowali Jezusa" here and "Żydzi zabili Jezusa" there. No offence.

And yes, Jewish-friendly, as in relatively clean of antisemitism and hatred for Jews, like, say, Denmark. You can even call it indifferent towards Jews if you'd like.


I know, but you have to understand that such sayings are only because of the bad history, not the present. There is a kind of bad feeling because of what happened that's still not fully passed, mostly among the older generation - like in Poland.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

@Bieganski, an important part of my question which you may have missed is my Polish descent and relative relation to the country. You say I'd be just like any other foreigner, and as such won't necessarily gain the natives' approval - yet what would be the case if I honestly felt relation to the country and its culture, had a Polish citizenship by roots and spoke the language?

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

@Iwonka I'm sorry to hear that you feel that way. Personally I think the Brits have bigger problems to worry about right now (e.g. the Muslim influx). As far as I know it wasn't a Polak who beheaded that poor soldier in broad daylight like a reckless beast, yet I do also notice their focus on the mass immigration from Poland as if it was a bad thing.

Back to our topic - I'm not saying I should be accepted 100% of course, but it sure would be nice to assimilate and blend socially as successfully as possible, no one wants to be a foreigner for too long! :)

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

@Iwonka yes, my Polish is near fluent and of course I keep practicing and using it with my grandparents, aunt and Facebook friends :)

As for the shared history, yes - Polish Jews and the Christian Poles have a strong connection thanks to their joint history - I haven't told you but even my mom's Yiddish, which she speaks to my grandparents in addition to Hebrew - is Galician Yiddish, spoken by the Jews from Poland and highly influenced by Polish. She also knows a bit of Polish, but she always had a hard time studying the language properly despite her will :P

About the bodyguards thing - I know how you feel, and I'm sorry it has to be that way - but the parents are worried about their children's safety as a Jewish group in a foreign country, so you know... they feel its better like this than having their children attacked by some random lunatic/s that might pop up.

Do you think Kraków would be a nicer place for me than Warszawa? :)

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

@Iwonka these meetings do exist, they are a part of most trips. The teens come back and say the Poles were kinda nice, a little cold (they are not used to such people, European if you'd like, most people here are "warmer") - But its a case of too little too late I'm afraid.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

@Bieganski I think you're over complicating things and keep misinterpreting my words. I will not be coming to Poland as a Jew expecting any benefits or special positive treatment, that would be ridiculous. Furthermore - I was born in Israel and I'm serving in the army so believe you me when I say I have no need to prove anything to anyone here to get a job or anything of the sort, its just that I wanna try living in EU for a handful of reasons and one of my theoretical destinations would be Poland thanks to my increased relation to it over other countries apart from Israel - and that is that.

I think it is a natural wish to be accepted in your target country and assimilating well there without having to deal with any unnecessary obstacles, which is the reason why I was asking my question in the first place - this, and my curiosity.

Oh and about the Palestinians - they have nothing to do with anything really and obviously that was just an unlegitimate attempt at a low blow - I'm not the one calling the shots and therefore I won't fall to this foul attempt.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

@p3undone I know Poland was occupied by the Nazis and that the built of the death camps was initiated by the Nazis, not the Poles. Yet we should note that alongside the Poles who helped save Jews there were others who were hostile to the Jews both during and after the war (e.g. Jedwabne Pogrom and Kielce Pogrom respectively).

I think that if it wasn't for those pogroms, there would have been a much more friendly attitude towards the Poles rather than the mixed emotions.

And of course I'm not talking about Poland and the Poles as a whole, since most Poles did not cooperate with the Nazis, but those "pockets" of exceptions which make all the complication.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

Well, that article is very praising and optimistic - the real question is whether or not it really is accurate? :P

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

@Iwonka they didn't. The Dutch and French were kind of pussies. The highest number of righteous among the nations comes from Poland. That's why I say that if it wasn't for the pogroms and the fact everything happened on Polish soil, no one would probably blame the Poles for anything.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

@Harry possibly proportionally things may not look so bright, but then again - Poland had a more "hardcore" occupation, isn't that so?

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

@R.U.R. Excuse me, but my family came specifically from Świebodzice, £ańcut, Wrocław, Warszawa and £ódź. As far as I know none of these were outside of Poland?

Besides - Poland had the biggest number of Jews within EU prior to WWII and its a known fact.

And lastly - and most importantly - I wouldn't want to live in Belarus nor Ukraine since I don't have nor feel any relation to them, and I don't see them nearly as modern and advanced as Poland is. I also don't respect them as much as I do Poland because they are known as more primitive and racist countries (well, especially Ukraine).

Euro 2012 Is a good example for the superiority of Poland over Ukraine. I've nothing to do in Ukraine or Belarus other than visiting Chernobyl, Kiev or Odessa as a tourist.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

@Harry but after the war?

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

@Harry my grandma lived there after the war :)

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

@R.U.R. What do you mean I don't care for Jewish culture? As in don't wanna live within a Jewish community and such? Well, I don't really need that, and I don't mind assimilating as a Jewish Pole who does everything but celebrating the Christian holidays really.. I can keep my culture at home if I want, I don't need it in my daily life outside. If I wanted to live a Jewish life is stay in Israel.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

@R.U.R. Ugh, come on. Where on earth did I say I want superiority, man? I just said Poland is head and shoulders above these countries, how is that bad? And how does that mean I want superiority? You're making me sound like some kind of villain from a movie lol. If I wanted superiority I'd go to Hollywood, mingle with stars and buy Facebook haha :P

And why does it seem like you want me to live in these countries?

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]

@R.U.R. I have enough warm climate here... don't like it... don't take it personally but what do I have to do with Crimea? XD