History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

And yet rock music in and of itself has had only tangential influence SPECIFICALLY on Slavic vs. Germanic philosophy. How did the impact of the Beatles following the raging success of their Hamburg debut eventually affect, say, the German counter-culture revolution? R.U.R. why don't you just come out and admit that your curve balls are getting us pretty off topic here?

News / POLAND to have its own automobile brand (back), the SYRENA! [36]

Again, I seem to recall the 'Polonis', oh, back in the 80's. Or was that some sort of gag promo?
:-)

History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

I nonetheless fail to grasp the immediate relationship between this rock group and the thread topic as posted.
Then again, as I've reiterated countless times here on PF, I might be a little slowLOL

Last time I checked, the subject matter is/was "Slavic vs. Germanic thinking..", a potentially excellent thread topic!
If you can kindly show a link between "Neue Helden" or whatever and the topic, e.g. a corresponding contemporarry Polish, Russian group, then I might sit up and take some notice. Other than that, these petty detours are only slowing us down, those of us for serious discourse is still possible:-) Thank you.

History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

What has that got to do with anything?

History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

No, "secular piety" is THE standard, accepted rendering into English. Polish per se might not be my baillie wick, but German is:-)

"Welt" = world + "Froemmigkeit" > "fromm" = pious translates into "secular" as opposed to "sacred" piety wherein the (external) world is worshipped at the expense of the human spirit. The Lutheran or Evangelical Church during the post-Luther period simply became once more an arm, as it were, of the state hierarchy, rather than a grassroots tool for effecting social change of contemporary injustice. During WWII, with precious few exceptions such as Bonhoeffer or Niemoeller, the Church remained tacitly silent while Hitler's minions committed their atrocities.

Food / Dish containing Sauerkraut, Noodles & Sour Cream? [6]

Maybe a long lost relative of "laSAGna", only minus the tomatoes and parmesan?

Food / Dish containing Sauerkraut, Noodles & Sour Cream? [6]

Possibly "bigos" or Polish "hunter's stew"?? It contains meat, at least the type I've eaten prepared in authentic Polish restaurants in Greenpoint:-) Quite delicious, stick-to-your-ribs stuff, best enjoyed as either a main or even a side dish alongside boiled kiełbasa and washed down with a glass of Żywiec!

News / POLAND to have its own automobile brand (back), the SYRENA! [36]

Hmmm, I thought the original "pride" brand was the POLONIS!!
Guess I was wrongLOL

Po polsku / Polska jest dyktaturą? [129]

Czy wierżesz że Lech Wałęsa był dyktatorem? Jak w immym "thread" nie dokładnie używamy słowo "dyktaturę"!

Ameryka jest "dyktaturą"??
:-)

Life / Im a Black American Moving to Poland. Worried about adaptation. [47]

There is the belief that minority migration(s) to homogeneous, majority societies can actually damage the social peace if those immigrants/migrants don't make every concerted effort to ADAPT to their new society, linguistically, socially and spiritually. Every nation is imbued with its own distinct ethnic, religious and social traditions, long the staple of their cultural value system.

It is understandable to a degree when certain members of such a small and homogenous society, e.g. Poland, Germany, Norway, Sweden, even England etc.. (including much of the Mid-Western US, incidentally!!) become a bit rattled by boatloads of foreigners arriving on their shores, a large number of whom unfortunately DON'T see it as their business to adapt, but instead that the host nation should adapt to the guest arrival .

These lot only give the rest of those willing to do whatever necessary to integrate a permanently bad name.

Language / How can I perfect my Polish grammar? [10]

Thank you, your point is indeed well taken. True, my grandparents (on my mother's side) were in fact Polish (really YIDDISH)-speaking Jews who learned English only after coming to the United States. My grandfather might have spoken some Polish, yet so much of it colored by Yiddish, it was essentially unusable:-)

Language / How can I perfect my Polish grammar? [10]

Read ANY history, Short-Hair, and the "classic" immigrant, rags-to-riches scenario involved those who were functionally, if ONLY semi-literate!!! Indeed, my grandparents' saga was typical, not in any way exceptional. Respectfully, you're referring to post-Ellis Island populations, those within the last fifty years, not the last ONE-HUNDRED and fifty years:-)

Jan, I'd try reading short, graded stories from a Polish reader. Don't translate them into English at first, but attempt initially to understand the meaning of the words from their context. Movies are always full of embedded meaning, slang, vernacular and can be more confusing than not. Listening to guided dialogues can be helpful as well (but WITHOUT English translation!!).

This is only a suggestion:-)

Language / How can I perfect my Polish grammar? [10]

ShortHair, my own grandparents worked their fingers and brains to the bone to learn English, having only limited schooling in the shtetl in which they were born. Highly intelligent as they were, they knew their native language was poor, and so insisted on speaking ONLY in English to their son, my father.

The educated worldwide tended and tend to have the money they need to remain in their country, not emigrate in order to seek a better life elsewhere:-)

YOU wake up and smell the coffee, fella! I only hope it's fresh brewedLOL

Language / How can I perfect my Polish grammar? [10]

Jan, many US-born and raised kids of immigrant parents will tend to speak their parents' mother tongue based upon the dialect or slangy pronunciation which they heard growing up. Typically, and this goes for nearly every ethnic group that came to this country, the average immigrant came from the poor classes, often illiterate, even in their own language (let alone in English). The language which they then usually passed on to their children was grammatically lower standard, this evident in pronunciation too. It is/was the ever so rare newcomer to America who had anything resembling a university background. My point is that learning Polish, Spanish, German, Ukrainian, Italian etcl solely from one's family will scarcely prepare you for authentically up-to-date, educated language used by contemporary urban speakers of those languages!

When I taught German, soooo many of my beginning students would end up dropping out after the first quarter of the term. The reason was that they were now learning 'High German', and had to break ten or more years of bad habits built up from growing up listening to their grandparents speak to them, usually with a backwoods, albeit charming, "countrified" language, inappropriate for use in school or business.

My Italian colleague complained similarly that most of his students were of Sicilian, sometimes Calabrian, parents and were brought up speaking those languages, yet not prepared for standard 'Florentine' Italian:-)

History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

As source of last resort.

Back on topic, German has another wonderfully "untranslatable" word LEBENSMUEDIGKEIT. It means roughly "world weariness" and refers to the distinct brand of 19th century German Romanticism, the idea of losing oneself in a sort of Never-never land of abstract tiredness of the real world in favor of an ideal world. The Russians (but not the Poles) have a word which I'm told translates as "heaviness of soul".

Language / I need advice - how long does it take to learn Polish? [70]

America is essentially all about PR, Meathead! Compare for instance British books on history, as one example, with American. Brits seem to try and educate, whereas Americans try and sell. Case in point, an English-authored book on European history comes right out and states point blank ".......Europe was a hotbed of simmering tensions throughout her long and convoluted development, barbaric Germans vs. the industrious Celts, the ancient Greeks....." vs. an American textbook on the subject of Europe's early history post-Charlemagne: "The might German Empire of Karl the Great showed that rare tenacity and industriousness for which the Teutonic Germans have remained so well known. The bellicose Vikings and fearsome Picts revealed a degree of the extreme not found as much among their Continental cousins...."

I've yet to read any competent US-history of Europe which devotes but a few paragraphs, if at all perhaps, half a chapter to Poland!

In brief, Americans want to spare the feelings of those countries, such as Germany, upon which we depend so much for trade and industry. The English seem by in large to tell things as they see them ^^

Life / Im a Black American Moving to Poland. Worried about adaptation. [47]

For several things, he's a high-ranking BLACK in Poland (though Nigerian by birth and descent, if I'm not mistaken), he speaks Polish fluently and as the only such member of parliament, he's more than likely to be or become a role model for other African immigrants!

That's a pretty auspicious start, I should think:-)

Innych takich posłów Sejmu nie ma, prawda?

Law / Do I need a work visa before moving to Poland? [29]

Looks a bit fly-by-night to me, old chum! You sound well-intentioned and all, but ahemmmm, it depends on whatcha mean by "get me by"LOL

Living like a pauper may be technically "getting by", but I'd hardly call it living, let alone well:-) And it sure wouldn't get me or my wife by, I'm tellin' ya right now.

I'd get your Polish girlfriend's input on this one, Abby. No better way of knowing the local ways than through another local.
Incidentally, unlike in France, the UK, Germany or Scandinavia, Eastern Europe's as notorious as Italy for her black market bribery. Make a deal or you might as well throw in the towel, bud ^^

History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

"Transcribe, please!", would have been my response:-)

To expatiate somewhat, it's not a fair analogy because non-Latin script-based languages, e.g. Arabic, Hebrew, Armenian, Georgian, the Cyrillic languages such as Russian or Greek as well as most of the Asian languages (except for Vietnamese!!) are ALWAYS transcribed in international atlases for the benifit of those who do not read those languages:-)

History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

R.U.R. (Valley he-he!!), one issue at a time:-)

If you're opting for EVERY country using its own native spelling, e.g. "Warszawa" in Polish, "Muenchen" in German, "London" in English etc., I do indeed take your point and I'd even tend to agree. After all, respect is due each nationality and that begins with saying their name right!

As far as explaining in several sentences what Plessner spends in over three-hundred plus pages regarding "secular piety" (Weltfroemmigkeit) may involve some doing. Suffice to say, that it concerns this peculiarly German view of idealizing the physical at the expense of the spiritual world, whereupon, owing in large measure to the aftermath of the Thirty-Years War which ravaged much of Europe throughout part of the 17th century, the Germans' feeling about religion and faith in G-d was basically destroyed and replaced with a mechanistic/scientific approach to Christianity. As Germany was also one of the last nations in Europe to "democratize" (remember the failed 'revolution' of 1848 ^^), the Enlightenment beliefs of equality of humankind, freedom from oppression and the Biblical "Love thy neighor as thyself" got lost within a hopeless bureaucratic hierarchy, in which all those abstract intangibles held little meaning for the average person.

England and France, as well as America, had already gone through an epoch-changing social revolution which Germany had not. Some claim that Germans had to wait until the post-War protests of Rudi Dutschke and others during Summer '68 to see any sort of social upheaval. For this reason, until this day, a seemingly innocent remark to a German over fifty about "middle-class values" etc, might well elicit a severe tongue-lashing, possibly even a black eye!! Germans of a certain generation, namely those who came of age during the 60's and who'd be today almost seventy, associate polite, Babbitish, stuffiness, civilized, apolitical conversation and the like, with everything their "Nazi-era" parents stood for and which they learned to resent.

Language / Should I learn Polish or she learn English? [83]

Amen, Crow!

History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

Likewise, I'm sure. Perhaps I'm a little slow, R.U.R., but I nonetheless continue to fail to grasp your point:-)

Life / Im a Black American Moving to Poland. Worried about adaptation. [47]

John Godson is a black parliamentarian.
I think, if you too learn the language, you should adapt fine to Poland:-)

Language / Should I learn Polish or she learn English? [83]

Smurf,

You just reminded me of a colleague of mine who also decided to learn Polish, if for no other reason, than that he worked as a model photographer and (not surprisingly!!) many top models are from Poland. His first professional shoot with a twenty-something young lady from Poland and, a la marshal arts tactics, when she was least expecting it, he "hit" her with a whopping "Dzień dobry, pani! Bardzo mi miło, proszę wejść!", at which point, upon disarming her completely he raised her right hand to his lips, barely touching it, while intoning "Całuję pani rączki!"Rather than thinking "Who's this perve weirdo!!", she was apparently so flabbergasted, she insisted that he be the ONLY one to do her modeling shoots in the US:-) All this, at a drop-dead salary!

So you see, guys! There's hope for you all yetLOL

Language / Please help me understand Polish adverbs [30]

Ah, yes! I see. The latter is a single adverb, not two words combined. Therefore, it must stand in the Accusative (otherwise, correctly, in the Genitive for all negations).

The former was sheer carelessness. The adverbial form of "piękny" is "pięknie", though often "O" is used, cf. "bezpośredni" vs. "bezpośrednio" etc..

Indeed, even we advanced students fall into the same traps as beginners, I'm afraid.
Many thanks!

History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

Yet I've/we've all just proven that one CAN, and at the "international level":-)

Language / Please help me understand Polish adverbs [30]

Adverbs are indeed a handful:-)

Depending upon the context of the sentence, they can come either before or after the verb:

Bogdan DOBRZE mówi po francusku. vs. Bogdan speaks French FLUENTLY.

Basiu, PIĘKNO malujesz! vs. Babs, you paint BEAUTIFULLY!

Idź SZYBKO do sklepu! (not: SZYBKO idź do sklepu! because the sentence is an imperative or command, rather than indicative)

Nie DOBRZE znam polskiego.

etc...

History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

However, "New York" in Spanish is (still) "Nueva York", in Polish and other Slavic languages "Nowy Jork"
Polish "Szczecin" DOES remain the same in US maps/atlases, though in German, she's called "Stettin", in Italian "Stettino" and Spanish "Estettino". By the way, in Polish our capital is "WaSZington", declined as any other city name:-)

So what's your point finally?

@Ironside, after applying a magnifying glass (lupa) to the blow-up, I did indeed notice "Thorn" staring me right square in the face (twarz)

LOL

History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

Again, look if you would at a US vs. a Polish vs. a German, Italian world map and notice the differing spellings of world capitals.

Language / I need advice - how long does it take to learn Polish? [70]

Hubertus, your ideas aren't unrealistic, it's that much of Europe understands customer/shopkeeper/employee relations very differently, that's all. Germany once not all that long ago referred to herself as a "service desert" (eine Service-Wueste), because the smile/nod and even polite hello and goodbye were but as rare as diamonds in the sand:-) Here in the States, in most high-quality establishments, any employee who mouths off regularly to or even slightly disrespects a customer/diner etc.. will be censured for such infraction and possibly fired. We tend to take customer complaints of workers much more seriously than in many European countries.