History / Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more? [369]


According to wikipedia:

On the Polish side, 3,000-7,000 soldiers died fighting the Red Army, with 230,000-450,000 taken prisoner.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland#Aftermath
No number of a dead civilians is even mentioned in wikipedia. Can you provide any link?


There were many Polish citizens of other nationalities. Not sure there was any strict ethnic selection. Soviet government claimed they selected them for been members of a Polish officers families, intelligentsia, administrators etc. Those people who they believed were capable to engage in anti-Soviet activity or switch to the enemy side in the War. Many of these people died in Russia been unprepaired for harsh conditions, but many successfully returned back to Poland or decided to stay in Russia by the good will. I wonder what would be their fate if they would get into German occupation a year later.


Only Soviet fault? Haven't Eastern Germans, Czechs or Hungarians been subjected to a similar system? Did the live exactly like Poles did?


The thread was about the Russians, not the Soviets. And subsequently some crimes attributed to an "ethnic" Russians. No propaganda here. Only the facts taken from reliable sources that matter.

History / Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more? [369]

I meant if some actions of Soviet government are used to represented them as a "Russian crimes" why not bring some facts just for objectivity? In any case USSR is long gone. Why to get scary with "Soviet propaganda"?

History / Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more? [369]


He wrote that Poland was one of the poorest in Europe in 1989. Is it one of the richest now?

You would be wondered but according to a modern sources the system that existed in Hungary in 1960-1980-th was one of mildest in Eastern and Central Europe of those times. According to some sources they didn't even have a truly guarded border with Austria and anyone who really wanted to trespass it, could do it. This is not a propaganda (don't get scared), but just a historical curiosity.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulash_Communism


With the same success he can regret about demise of Russian Empire in its 1866 borders.

What is typical to a leaders of a countries which were a large empires once. For example mongols praise Gengiz-Khan and built him a huge monument in Ulan-Battor.

Does it mean we need get scary of Russian monarchists and afraid of Mongol invasion?

History / Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more? [369]


Does it make a reason to make up the facts to make Russians guilty in all the crimes during the past history? I prefer objectivity over propaganda. I dislike demonization of any nation. Regarding Russian threat. Russian population continues to age and shrink quickly, significance of the hydrocarbons will fall with time. The only territory Russia added during 18 years of Putin rule was Crimea which size is 27,000 km2 (compared to 17 million km2 of Russia total size). If Russia will continue with the same speed it wouldn't be able to double its territory even in 10.000 years.

History / Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more? [369]


And certainly Czech if you included them. Still it depends on how you calculate GDP. How much Polish manufacturing grew in the last 30 years? Here in Canada I purchase alimentary goods "made in Poland" sometimes, such as herbs, chocolate, soar cabbage or similar but never saw any Polish product other than food.


What kind of reform do you think they need?

History / Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more? [369]

So now markets in Ukraine aren't free?

History / Poles and Russians -- love-hate relationship? [209]


About how it started. At the end of 18-th century Ottaman Empire was on the verge of collapse. They've been beaten badly by Russian army and the Western Powers realized the next war won by Russia may mean all the Balkans falling to the Russian control and immense strengthening of Russia. They decided to prevent it at any cost. Prussia and Austria threatened Russia with war if they going to fight Ottamans again and as a compensation FORCED Russia to participate in partition of Poland. Poland was divided into three parts one of which passed to Russia. In difference from those parts which passed to Germany and Austria Russian part preserved some nominal official autonomy and became called by Russians as "Princedom of Poland". They preserved even some government institutions such as the Senate and separate legal system. Russian Queen Catherine the II made the last Polish king Poniatowski her official favorite (lover) and settled him in a luxury palace. She allocate a huge allowance for his luxury life. Later in 19-th century there was Polish uprising against Russian rule lead by Kostushko. There were large casualties from Russian side both military and civilian. Yet Russians didn't punish captured Kostushko anyhow and simply released him for a sake of a Russian-Polish brotherhood. Later Kostushko fought in US and made career of a prominent general.

I'm not aware if Russians personally owned large parcels of land in Poland during "imperial rule" period. But the opposite is know exactly. Ethnic Poles owned many, likely majority of private lands in large territories of modern Western Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania. And constituted a prominent segment of Russian nobility. And even though Polish often severely discriminated their Ruthenian/Ukrainian/Belarussian serfs, Russian rulers not only refused support anti-Polish uprisings of the Orthodox peasants (for example in Central and Western Ukraine) but even sent Russian troops for Polish protection. For example Catherine the II. And this is regardless the fact that the leaders of the uprisings represented themselves as pro-Russian!

History / Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more? [369]

Only once as a child I sold apricots on the market. Business was good. A good free money sufficient for icecream. (smile)
But it was during the last year of USSR. I didn't visit Ukraine for a while, so maybe you will tell my what is a problem? A wrong legislation?

History / Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more? [369]


This is impressive! Could you name some particular companies which export ships, aviation engines & components, furniture and software in Canada? I think if Poland would export only food in Canada they've already did a remarkable success! You can find it in many stores and supermarkets. Probably you have strong trade relations particularly with Canada?


I very glad for you (wipes tear). It is good for Ukraine to have such a developed neighbor. I hope Poland and Ukraine will become friends someday.


I think one of the reasons why Eastern Slavic countries have failed in some important aspects can be lack of desire of people in these countries to stand for each other. What includes a lack of an ethnic and basic solidarity. In Poland people are more united probably and tend to help each other more.

History / Poles and Russians -- love-hate relationship? [209]


Principally I'm not trying to achieve it, so do I waste time?


This is a more realistic direction we can work to.


I never lived in Russia, so why do I need regard their leaders as my leaders (at least at a given point)?

Still relation of Poles to Russia makes me wonder. Russians can live good or bad in their country, they can be happy or unhappy with

their leaders. But what is a deep concern and even obsession of other nations about that?! If Russians experience(d) some problems in their own country, why hate them for this?! Some generous person would rather start to think how to help them...

If you want justify your hate by issuing some historical count to Russians maybe we will go more deeply in it and come to the facts?

History / Poles and Russians -- love-hate relationship? [209]


What do you exactly mean by that?

History / Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more? [369]

Some link?

History / Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more? [369]

Thanks. It was interesting to read. Never heard of this before. But it happened more than 80 years ago... How long people can live obsessed with the past?

Here we need to note, however, that Russian empire and USSR were influenced by Asians to a large extent. Neither Lenin or Stalin, for example, were European ethnically. It doesn't mean that Asians are somehow inferior, of course, it is just such happened historically, that they are culturally different quite a bit.

History / Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more? [369]

I do not disagree that modern Russia retains strong Asian ethic and cultural influence. As well as Ukraine and Belarus. But since Kievan Rus was European state originally wouldn't you want to bring them back to European civilization completely?

History / Poles and Russians -- love-hate relationship? [209]


It was Nazi who invaded tens of countries. Russians just drove them back mostly. Which civil wars with exception the one in Russia?

History / Poles and Russians -- love-hate relationship? [209]

That is sad of course, but at least Russians, Ukrainian, Belarusians and other nations of the former USSR didn't convert these countries
into a real colonies like Nazi did. They didn't exploit their resources didn't conduct an ethnical cleansings. There was no Russians in governments of these countries. No signs "for Russians only". They stationed there some troops in barracks and expected socialist orientation.

History / Poles and Russians -- love-hate relationship? [209]

Why not provide some facts on this forum? We will discuss it.

History / Poles and Russians -- love-hate relationship? [209]

Well, I afraid we started to delve into the "jungle".

Still, I think that Eastern Slavs saved Poles from nearly total annihilation at least three times: From a total scale mongol invasion, from Swedish invasion in 18 century and in 1945.

Life / How are electric cars doing in Poland? [413]

Currently the largest problem is price and longevity of the batteries. A small innovative companies and inventors not always have funds.
I've patented an innovative type of supercapacitor 1.5 years ago, but still wasn't able to developed it into a commercial product. I think it could be used in EV's too. There is simply no accessible government or private programs for this.

History / Whom do the people in Poland hate more: Germans or Russians? [869]


Russians sacrificed lives millions of its own soldiers at the end of war and to significant extent their lives were sacrificed for a sake of German civilians. To save lives millions of German people. At the end of war Russians had complete superiority in air and didn't even had a real need to engage in extensive terrestrial combat. They could just burn all the Eastern German cities with fire bombs (like Americans did to Hamburg and Dresden), kill all the population with chemical bombs, destroy all the dams on the rivers and drown all the people in Berlin and in one word to kill anything that moves from the air. And you have to be greatfull they didn't do it to you grand parents.

What is a point to talk about collective responsibility of people for doing a COMMON CRIMES? Some of them did, some not. The was no any order of higher Soviet commandment which would encourage or justify any oppressions toward German civilians. Not even medium level commandment is known for this. Even contra some Soviet soldiers been shot for this. With the same success you can make statements like this: "A numerous immigrants who live in Germany raped many German women during the last decades". What would be any point of it?!

History / Whom do the people in Poland hate more: Germans or Russians? [869]

@delphiandomine
And which exactly collaboration do I advocate? What do you mean under "collaboration"?

Genealogy / Slavs are descendants of Sarmatians? [600]


Interesting. I never previously saw any map made by the Romans which would include modern Poland territory. I thought this area was never thoroughly explored by Romans. As well as any territory to the East of Reine. They described this area as terrible place covered by impassable thick forests and swamps. So, I wonder how could they make any map like this...

Genealogy / Slavs are descendants of Sarmatians? [600]


Germanic, Slavic, Sarmatian... What is the difference? From Roman viewpoint we are all the Barbarians.

Life / How are electric cars doing in Poland? [413]

Yes, please, what do you wish to know?


In difference from US Canada hardly have any government grants and programs for batteries and EVs development. Li-ion are too expensive and bulky. We need an alternative to make an affordable plug-in hybrid reality.

Off-Topic / Russophiles can no longer defend their beloved Russians. [84]


And who?

Off-Topic / Russophiles can no longer defend their beloved Russians. [84]


Can you specify? Asia is a huge continent in which people of different races live. Such as Arabs, Turkish, Persians, Chines, Hindus, etc.
Many of them do not even look alike...
Can you post here photos of some famous Russians who look Asian?

Off-Topic / Russophiles can no longer defend their beloved Russians. [84]

Ukrainians, Belarussians?

Off-Topic / Russophiles can no longer defend their beloved Russians. [84]


Beside the politics. Regarding Hitler appearance. Some sources claim he was at least 170 cm tall (some even claim 175) what was not shorter than average for his time. Take note that in the last 100 years European men gained 11 cm. So for the end of 19-th century when he grew up his stature wasn't something out of common and the average. Some sources claimed he had bleu eyes. Regarding hair color. We don't know what was his hair color in childhood, but often hair tends to get darker with age. For example I was born redhead, but my heair turned chocolate color (almost black) when I grew older.

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]

With Ukrainians? Really??

History / What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)? [188]

1) And what kind of cooperation between Poles and Ukrainians or Poland and Ukraine do you suggest?

2) And what are the difference between Russians and Ukrainians do you think?