History / Poland's Tragic History [12]

Well since you asked, my thoughts are that Poland definitely has suffered, but her suffering is not unique. Eastern Europe as a whole has suffered, both by international conflict and by each country's own ruling class.

I suppose I did make the topic too broad. So I apologize for that. I wasn't trying to troll, though perhaps it came off that way.

You can call me a liar that's fine. I clearly must be, thanks for pointing it out.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

I do not live in Poland nor was I born in Poland, My views do not represent the views of Poland. So I am not claiming to represent Poland or every single Polish person on earth.

Just because other sites with other motives use the excerpts I used, doesn't mean that the excerpts themselves are racist at all. These books do exist, do they not? If another website uses the excerpts, that doesn't mean the excerpts are tainted an should be deemed racist.

So because I'm merely pointing out that certain members of certain group are/were not saints, and were/are active agents rather than passive objects, that makes me racist?

How can you be racist against Jews? You have Black Jews, Arab Jews, Chinese Jews, Indian Jews...

Millions of Caucasian Jews lived in Poland, and chose to live there, and could leave any time. They lived there for a very long time. So how could Poland be an evil hot bed of "anti-semitism" if so many Jews lived there? Another poster pointed this out.

Polish Catholic serfs, the majority of the population, could not leave their land and were not allowed in cities..

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


The excerpts I have posted clearly show that Polish Jews had privileges, along with Polish Catholic nobility and royalty, over all the rest of the Polish Catholics. So Jews were not the only privileged ones, but these excerpts do examine the situation of the Jews in particular. Jews may not have owned land and no one did unless they were the nobility or royalty. But, and I would be happy to provide more excerpts, Jews were allowed to be mobile, marry, and divorce. Serfs (the majority) could not be mobile, and had to have permission from the lords to marry.


They also blamed it on, and rioted against, nobles, members of royal divisions, and even at times clergy. Jews were part of the oppression, and so they were blamed as well. They were active agents, not passive objects.

I actually have some Jewish background. I simply choose to look at history without any loyalty to any particular group or narrative.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

If you read the certain excerpts I had posted, you can see that Jews not only had it great in Poland, but in fact had it better than the Non-Jewish Poles themselves.

Some American Jews blame Polish Catholics because they know, deep down, that American Jews did nothing to save their fellow tribe members in Europe during WW2. Instead of blaming themselves (though what could they do anyway) they blame the Polish Catholics. Even though Polish Catholics suffered as greatly during WW2 as many other groups did.

"...to ask why the Poles did little to help the Jews is rather like asking why the Jews did nothing to assist the Poles." - Norman Davies

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

"Jews, in contrast to the millions of serfs and the impoverished
townspeople who were oppressed by the nobility, constituted a
privileged group which ... effectively represented the only class in
the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth to concentrate finance and liquid
assets in its hands."
- Witold Rymankowki in Polonsky, Antony, Ed. From Shtetl to
Socialism:
Studies from Polin. The Litman Library for Jewish Civilization,
London, Washington, 1993.

"...in Poland a number of wealthy Jews ... were engaged ... (as
money lenders, merchants) ... managers of the prince's mint, supervisors
of collection of taxes and tolls, [and] management of estates acquired
as the result of foreclosure."
- Weinryb, Bernard D. The Jews of Poland. A Social and Economic
History of the Jewish Community in Poland from 1100 to 1800. Jewish
Publication Society of America, Philadelphia, 1973. p. 63

"Another area controlled by the Jewish community was rents and
leaseholds. In time ... monopolistic tendencies increased among the
Jews ... The fact remained that the monopolistic-exclusion
principles were also an integral part of the Jewish way of life and could thus
not be regarded as a constant anti-Semitic factor directed solely
against themselves."
- Ibid. p. 159