Law / Polish visa expert? Japanes moving to Poland to study Polish. [43]


No, there's no necessity for me to leave Schengen. Just to leave Poland. I used my plane tix from Norway back. I'm not at home now, but if you're interested, I can see what I can do about scaning in documents, posting emails, ect so long as I can preserve my anonymity. But as I said above, that would be better for another thread.

If there are people actually interested in my adventures in immigration, I can certainly post more info. I just don't want to pull this thread too far off topic since there's no way my life story is at all relevant to the OPs question.

Remember, Norway agrees. I can definately post the email from UDI anonymizing a few bits (in Norwegian of course, but Google translate should do a decent job with it. I assume you'd want the original and not my translation).

Law / Polish visa expert? Japanes moving to Poland to study Polish. [43]

The American Embassy had to get involved for other reasons I'm not comfortable discussing on an internet forum (I know I'm anonymous and all that, but I have my reasons for keepign that private).

As far as Schengen goes, countries do have [limited] soveriegnty on certain matters. I've tried to keep my explanation and links to Schengen protocol limited since that's kind of a tangent to this thread. I love talking legal matters though. If someone opens another thread, I might be tempted to tell more of my story and get into a deep discussion of the rules.

Life / Which is the best Polish mobile phone provider for family use (4 phones)? [4]

I would not recommend Play. With two different numbers and two different phones, they started blocking international incoming texts. They also, for the past two days, have been sending me 95-100 SMSs a day telling me I have to top up my credit. This started less that 24 hours after I topped up.

My friend has had Plus for many years and is very happy with it.

Law / Polish visa expert? Japanes moving to Poland to study Polish. [43]


Well, then it's a myth both the immigigration authority, the American embassy in Warsaw and the Norwegian embassy in Warsaw who just accepted my paperwork believes too. According to the Embassies and the local immigration authority where I applied for my card of stay (which I was granted without hassle despite not having one for over 90 days) there's a treaty between the US and Poland that predates Schengen.

Oh, and to get that little piece of paper, I most definately did need to present my tickets out and into the country, and it was ONLY valid for 90 days starting from the entry date into the country, not the date I came in there to get it. They also needed those plane tickets when I got my residency card.

In order for the Norwegian embassy to accept my immigration papers, I had to provide proof that I had legally been residing in the country for six months. That date was reckoned from the date I flew out and back into the country, not the date my card was issued or even the date my application was processed.

Work / Work Permit and Requirement (not authorized to work in Poland) [12]

A lot depends on what kind of job it is, what country you come from, what kind fo employer you have and what kind of permit you need.

I worked in Poland, had a card of stay and everything (two different vovidships and employers), and I didn't need a bachelor's (at no point in the immigration process did they even assess my qualifications or credentials).

My advice is to first talk to the Polish consulate in your country, and if you don't get a satisfactory answer talk to your country's embassy in Poland. My consulate in Krakow was useless, but my embassy in Warsaw was brilliant. It took the slightest bit of persistence to get them to help (really, not much), and then they got me everything I needed and continued checking up on me until the immigration process was complete.

Law / Polish visa expert? Japanes moving to Poland to study Polish. [43]

Oh no, that applies to me too (although if you really want to see my docs, I can take photos with the vital info anonymised and show that I've legally been in Schengen for over 4 years with without ever having to apply for a visa, just permits :P), which is why I am extremely careful to preface everything I can't source. That's also why my only concrete advice to you has been to contact (not just read the website) of the Japanese embassy in Poland. My point is to verify everything. Granted, I might be a bit paranoid because my friend, the immigration lawyer, specifically works with appeals of expulsion cases. You would not believe the amount of people who got into horrible positions because they trusted people they shouldn't have to give them info (sometimes even 3rd party immigration agencies, often a family member). If you pour through any decent amount of court cases dealing with this, you can see it for yourself. I don't think people intentionally mislead people all that often, but immigration is complicated.

The reason I went in depth about the application of Schengen rules (not the treaty itself, since there's no disagreement on that) was because it seemed that the common misunderstanding that Schengen rules apply universally to all Schengen countries all the time was cropping up. I got that impression since we were heading down the Schengen D Visa path, which is one of those areas in particular where one sees some level of variance from country to country.

I offered up the suggestion of contacting your embassy in Poland because they will have the most up to date info, where the Polish consulate in the US might not be. Remember, they primarily deal with American citizens seeking permits for Poland. Emails are easy to send and generally responded to quickly. Phone calls are a bit more of a hassle, but well worth it.

Law / Polish visa expert? Japanes moving to Poland to study Polish. [43]


Yes, I know what the Schengen states are. All immigration rules are not the same for those states including who needs a visa and who doesn't (and what that visa entitles you to do in other Schengen states).

It doesn't surprise me that the website doesn't have info, that's why I also said you should call or email them. Immigration law is extremely complicated and Poland has one of the more difficult immigration systems to understand.

Look, here's why you need someone there. To understand immigration to a country in either the EU or Schengen (or both) you need to know the following:

-The EU, Schengen and that country's immigration rules. How that country applies the EU and Schengen rules (this does vary).
-Treaties that preceed the Schengen and/or EU agreement and are still valid.
-The immigration guidelines (which, if published at all, are generally very difficult to find).
-If it's something that falls under the embassy's purvue, the ebassies guidelines.
-And really, you need to understand the theory behind all of it to really have a good grasp of it.
And you have to be current on all of that. Those things change all the time. While people working in immigration get notification months or sometimes years before immigration laws/guidelines/ect change, the average person has to seek out these changes on their own. This is also why even people who work in immigration are wrong on occasion.

Unless you get lucky and run across a Polish immigration lawyer on a forum, a Japanese citizen who's fairly recently done what you're getting ready to do, or someone who's worked in the Japanese embassy in Poland, you're only getting a best guess. I've literally stood in an office with my Polish lawyer while he explained to the person handling my case what the laws were and for my previous permit

To give you a somewhat relevant example, some students in some Schengen countries can and do obtain a Schengen D type visa. That's because they do need it since that country doesn't have another form of permit to cover those cases. So, in France (IIRC) you'd need one and thus be able to obtain one. In Norway, since they have their own permits for students, you don't need one and thus can't obtain one. As an American in Poland, since there are other permits that cover me, I don't need one and thus can't get one. But, I don't know if that's because of the treaty or how Poland works in general for people that don't need a visa to enter. So my experience might be totally irrelevant.

Trusting random people on the internet to provide you with information is a very bad idea. That's the other reason I rarely comment on Polish immigration. With Norway, certain guidelines aside, I can provide links that back up everything. In Poland, I've gotten different answers from the same office.

If you don't believe me on the fact that Schengen rules are applies differently in different countries, look at the first sentence of imihelp.com

"Depending on the applicant's citizenship and/or residency or a few other rules, a Schengen visa may either be or not be required by all Schengen countries or some Schengen countries"

To back that up by the regulation itself (again, because of forum rules, can't link directly):

from COUNCIL REGULATION (EC) No 539/2001 of 15 March 2001

(8)In specific cases where special visa rules are warranted, Member
States may exempt certain categories of persons from the visa
requirement or impose it on them in accordance with public
international law or custom.

And, before you can dig into that lovely document, you need to start with Decision 1999/435/EC of 20 May 1999.

And that is why you have to be so specific when it comes to immigration EVEN to a Schengen country.

Law / Polish visa expert? Japanes moving to Poland to study Polish. [43]


*I didn't say work and reside. I said he'd be legally in Schengen (as opposed to me, who for most of this year was of questionable status in Schengen and perfectly legal in Poland). In other words, he can travel about freely and fly out of Schengen from any other country and not incur an expulsion.

No, I need a residence permit, and I suspect that's all he needs too. That is *not* a visa which was my original point. No, in no case do I, and at least most countries that don't need a visa to travel to Schengen, need a visa under any circumstances. We do, however, need a permit to stay past the 90 days.

Law / Polish visa expert? Japanes moving to Poland to study Polish. [43]

I also wanted to add (but was too slow on my edit) that since you don't need a Schengen visa, you won't be able to obtain one. So if that's where you're hitting the brick wall, that's why.

But really, I find it odd that you would need one. I know two people that did need a visa to enter Schengen (one from Pakistan and one from India). They were treated in accordanance with Schengen rules, meaning, they just needed to get an entry visa (in their case), and their work permit covered them for the duration of their stay. Countries can be wierd with immigration though,anything is possible. But logically, it makes no sense that people from those categories of countries wouldn't need something you do.

Edit: Try googling Ambasada Japonii w Polsce. I can't post a direct link since the forums won't let me.

The info you need is going to be in Japanese, so you can find what you need better than I. Just email the right person if you have questions or can't find what you're looking for.

Grubas: I do understand his frustration. Immigration is complicated and frustrating even if the country has streamlined immigration regs and an easy to understand immigration website, and Poland has neither. The only reason I understand Norwegian immigration, Schengen and EU regs is because my best friend worked as an immigration lawyer for many years and I'm a complete legal geek. And I've even seen him get frustrated at it from time to time, even though he practices in a country with a very streamlined immigration system.

Law / Polish visa expert? Japanes moving to Poland to study Polish. [43]

Then Japan must have different regulations than Americans in Poland. Americans don't need a visa in any Schengen country ever (not to say Americans don't need permits, they certainly do if they want to stay over 90 days). I can't speak to Poland's immigration regs specifically, but I do know Schengen rules quite thoroughly, and this would be true for you in any country that followed Schengen regulations precisely . I don't know how closely Poland adheres to those rules, they might have special regulations for Japanese citizens.

I know Poland has a preexisting treaty with the US, which means that even without a residence permit, I can leave and enter the country every 90 days without problems (but this isn't true for Schengen as a whole. Which raises interesting questions when you've been in Poland past the 90 days). I just have to get that little piece of paper every 90 days at the county offices.

Again, your embassy in Poland is going to be the most knowledgable on this. The questions you're asking are going far beyond what the average person's understanding of immigration law is. For someone to answer you accurately, they'd need to either have first hand experience as a Japanese person living in Poland or they'd have to be very thoroughly versed in immigration law (and still probably have to research the answer)

I know Norway's immigration regs backwards and forwards, and from that, have a pretty good understanding of Schengen and EU regs since Norway follows them to the letter (and I know that Poland, like many EU countries. doesn't). But beyond that, I can only speak to my personal adventures in Polish immigration, which doesn't help you very much since you don't have a US passport.

All I can say is that with a Polish residence card, you will legally be in Schengen for the duration the card is valid regardless of how Poland feels about it.

Law / Polish visa expert? Japanes moving to Poland to study Polish. [43]

Are you sure you need a visa and not a permit? While most of us use those words interchangably, they are actually two different things (and for some reason when you ask most people immigration questions, they never ask, "Did you mean a permit instead of a visa?)

The Karta Pobytu is the residence permit. If you do need a visa, you will also need this in addition. I don't know how this works in Poland, but generally, you have to get a residence permit before a visa.

I'd honestly be surprised you need a visa since you don't need a visa to enter Schengen. Poland does have some exceptions to the Schengen agreement (previous treaties and all that). But as a Japanese citizen, you have the right to visa free travel in Schengen for 90 days every six months.

Oh, and I found that the best source of info was my own embassy in Poland. There were several things they made me aware of that the Polish Embassy abroad didn't. Get a Skype World subscription or an international calling card and give them a call. If your embassy works at least as well as mine, then it would be well worth your money and time Also, the Japanese embassy in the US won't be the same resource. They're experts at helping Japanese citizens in the US, and not in Poland.

Life / "konczy Ci sie waznosc konta" - Play (Poland phone company) has gone insane. Help? [14]

Will try that. Gods, I hate that service, but for at least two weeks more I'm stuck with it.

One thing I do like about them, however, is they do generally have English speakers on staff at all times. That and the magical credit that never expires is why I've put up with them for so long.

Law / Poland KRS (Police Background Check) form / records [16]

Oh brilliant! Thank you so much. That helps quite a bit.

Law / Poland KRS (Police Background Check) form / records [16]

I know I'll need a certified translation, but I think I'm just going to do it in Norway so I know it's accepted. It might be a bit more expensive (already called, between 250-500 PLN), but at least I know there won't be any questions about it later. Since this has to be delivered no later than the 20th of August, I don't want to take any chances.

Yeah, I see the logic behind having a background check before seeing patients, I'm mostly grumpy about it all because it would have been nice to know back when I applied and had time to find someone to go with me. I assume they want it before start of term just so I'm not taking up a much coveted spot if I weren't to pass the background check. But, no use complaining now. Just have to get it done. :P And to be fair, it could be worse. At least they don't need a background check from every country I resided in the past 5 years.

Oh, one more question if anyone knows the answer. Can I get this done from any city in Poland (well any city with the appropriate offices) or do I have to go back to the city I resided in? I have to go to the embassy in Warsaw, and it would be absolutely lovely to get it all done from there.

Law / Poland KRS (Police Background Check) form / records [16]

@Teflcat: It's for medical school in Norway before the start of term. I think it's stupid too, especially since I won't be seeing patients until spring semester at the earliest. But, thems be the rules. Rules they didn't bother informing me about until I got my acceptance letter just a few days ago. And of course nobody knew which country I needed this from until today.

Thanks gumishu, it helps a lot to know where I need to go and what I need to ask for. I will see which of my Polish speaking friends has time. Checked on translators once before. Eesh, are they expensive.

Law / Poland KRS (Police Background Check) form / records [16]

Merged: How do I get a police background / criminal record check in Poland?

I need it to start uni and I need it in a rather short amount of time. I assume I'd be going to the police department, but I'm not even sure of that. If they don't speak English, I don't know what I'm asking for. I also need to be able to ask them how long it will take and if there's an option to exptidite it. I also have no idea what documents I need. I'm not a Polish citizen, so I don't know if the procedures are different for me

To further complicate matters, I'm not even living in Poland at the moment. I know I have to fly back there to get it, that's not an issue. It just means I have an extreme time crunch when it comes to getting things done, I need to make sure I've brought all the documents I need, ect, ect. In addition, I have a NIP but no PESL since I'm a foreginer (but did and technically still do, legally reside in Poland).

Life / A rant on customer service in Poland [42]


I'll try that in the morning. I did ask to speak to the manager, but they claimed he wasn't there. Probably with be too late, but worth the call.


I was actually rather pleased with them initially, and liked them better than Orange. One of the odd quirks of them, at least in my experience, is the credit doesn't expire when it should, making prepaid cheaper for me than a subscription. But, besides the nonsense with the cards, Play has started not delivering international SMSs to me. I can send them. I've also tried two different SIMs in three different phones. It them, not me for sure. I'm going to Plus next.

Yes, the customer service is a bit special here. And I swear PKP is actively trying to unseat Ukraine as the most frustrating customer service ever.

Life / A rant on customer service in Poland [42]


Actually, that is a distinct possibility. Maybe he knew I'd not go along with his, "Oh, I don't have change" shenanigans and thus ate my duck as preemptive revenge.

Life / A rant on customer service in Poland [42]

I've ordered from there before, and they put tons of duck, veggies, some weird sweet things in it. I get it, mistakes happen, but then they should correct the mistake.

I have been the victim of false advertising before, however. Paid a pretty penny for some artichokes in a posher restaurant in Wro and got sauteed onions (not even listed as an ingredient) and two tiny slivers of artichoke.


Touche.

Love / Sexually liberal ----- Is this a fact or myth for Polish women living in Poland? [61]

Well, as I stated before, I have a love/hate relationship with the poly communities, but there are lots of online and offline poly communites around the world. Maybe go explore those. They are full of good info, generally, unlike...other online communities.

But if it's the sex and not the relationships you're after, then swinging might be more your style. While swingers are cool people, that's just not a lifestyle that appeals to me, so I never sought out any swingers here. I do know that in a lot of areas, the general rule for parties and clubs is couples or single women only though. So you might need to find an open minded gal to go with.

Love / Sexually liberal ----- Is this a fact or myth for Polish women living in Poland? [61]

Unlike finding women who want to casually date, finding someone poly can be difficult. People into polyamory are a minority, and dating someone new to that way of life is unfortunately something some poly folk avoid.

Love / Sexually liberal ----- Is this a fact or myth for Polish women living in Poland? [61]

I have no idea, mate. I just know that some Polish guys have rather odd quirks.

Sorry, missed a few quotes: Poly relationships are a type of open relationship, but not all open relationships are poly. Swing, f. eks. is open but not poly.

Not everyone is wired to be poly, but if you are it's not any more stressful. You have to trust your partner, you have to work at keeping not one, but a few relationships going, jealousy can be a bad thing too, but it's great for the people who enjoy it. It depends on the arrangement, and there are many, but generally the dynamic is a primary couple. The other partners are all secondary (or even teritiary) to the primary. Everyone tends to know one another and is at least on friendly terms as well.


Never had a poly relationship with a Polish guy. Like I said, in my experience, they're mostly mono. Plus, not in a poly mood right now.

Love / Sexually liberal ----- Is this a fact or myth for Polish women living in Poland? [61]


Unfortunately, I've got nothing when it comes to dating advice.


More that guys will be clearly into them, and so totally clueless that the girl wants to shag.

Love / Sexually liberal ----- Is this a fact or myth for Polish women living in Poland? [61]

Well, statistically speaking, they're quite common. The question is, what kind of woman are you attracting? Or, are you attracting the kind of woman who will shag you without a commitment and are you unaware of that? That seems to be the biggest complaing of my female Polish friends, and I have seen it first hand.

Love / Sexually liberal ----- Is this a fact or myth for Polish women living in Poland? [61]


The studies are just based on heterosexual intercourse, but it's just the same way the traditional studies show men having more partners than women, just reversed. The reason the numbers are never equal, is because they rarely calculate the raw average. The only point of calculating the raw average is to get an idea of whether or not the study is even sort of accurate or to compare the average numbers to an earlier data set. Instead, most are looking for what the number of sexual partners the *average* man or woman has.

Okay, and here's the TL;DR part that is probably getting way more scientific than you're looking for.

So, in a survey done by More* magazine, we see that 25% of women have had more than 10 partners, while only 20% of men report the same. The average woman has had 9 sexual partners and the average man has had 7 (sorry, can't find the original study which would show the percentages) telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3685314/Young-women-have-more-sexual-partners-than-men.html

* We'll get to why these surveys might actually be more accurate than more "traditional" surveys in a bit. The sample size was quite large (2,000). I cannot find out how they gathered participants, however, and that does make a huge difference. If it's not completely random, that can skew the results. But, the results do stem with other surveys given.

Here's an interesting read on sex surveys and the kind of answers given. Now, this study is looking for the raw average, but it's because they weren't trying to measure the average of sexual partners, but under what conditions people were most honest about their sexual deeds:

researchnews.osu.edu/archive/sexsurv.htm

What's interesting is women who thought their answers would be read, reported an average of 2.6 partners, while the ones that theough they were hooked up to a lie detector reported an average of 4.4. Compare that to men who gave an average answer of 3.7 when they thought their answers would be read and an average answer of 4.0* when they thought they were hooked up to the lie detector.

*A .4 variation would be expected in a sample size this small. If it were a survey of say, 5,000, .4 would be too high.

Well, this is problematic when the most reliable studies have been traditionally thought to be face-to-face interviews.

To compound issues, men and women guesstimate differently. Men tend to just give a rough estimate, where women tend to tally the partners in their head, by name. This gives men a generally overinflated number, and women an either accurate or lower number (human memory is one of the most faulty things we have, afterall). ualberta.ca/~nrbrown/pubs/BrownSinclair1999.pdf

And that's just the basics, there's even more variables. The age at which you ask participants, relationship status, cultural and ethinc background, ect. And you have the bias of the people doing the survey to take into consideration. While they might not mean to skew the results, very subtle ways they word the question (even subconsciously) can affect the results they're given.

Another thing, when you're looking at surveys, you need to pay attention to the wording of the questions asked of the participants. Surveys that just ask "How many sexual partners have you had" or "how many people have you had sex with" are going to be inherently flawed since there's a huge difference of opinion on what counts as sex. A good study will actually indicate the sexual activity or activities that count as "sex" for the purpose of the study.

Ultimately though, when you look at good research, there's so many more myths than facts when it comes to sexuality (did you know, for example, that men in relationships with feminists report a happier sex life and get sex more often?). And a big part of this has been the decades of either flawed research, misinterpretation of the research by people that don't know how to read a study, and good old confirmation bias (we tend to ignore things that don't stem with our perception of the world).

Love / Sexually liberal ----- Is this a fact or myth for Polish women living in Poland? [61]


I've had a few poly relationships, mostly as a secondary partner but once as a primary. I should also mention, polyamory is NOT swinging. Swinging is about having recreational sex (often at parties or clubs, but not always), where polyamory is about having relationships. As odd as it sounds, swinging is much more about monogamy than polyamory in a lot of ways. A lot of swingers look at feelings and emotional attachments as a bad thing outside the core relationship, while that is the point of polymaory.


That's true for everyone everywhere. It's certainly nothing unique to Poland. Don't the stats generally come back that something like, 80% of partners are unfaithful? Well, and not to mention the fact that women generally have more sexual partners in a lifetime than a man (of course, getting accurate data is always a challenge, and there's generally lots of dispute among any findings). What can be said for sure, is the numbers of partners reported is going up for women and down for men. Whether that's due to more accurate reporting, women starting to embellish too, or actual changes in sexual attitudes, who's to say?

Anyway, that's probably more science than you were looking for. One of the dangers of talking to a sex educator. :P

Love / Sexually liberal ----- Is this a fact or myth for Polish women living in Poland? [61]

The fun thing about poly relationships, is they are all so very different from each other. Really, the only common thread is they all know the arrangement. And really, that just makes things better all the way around.

Love / Sexually liberal ----- Is this a fact or myth for Polish women living in Poland? [61]

Yes, and that everyone is aware of the arrangement. Without that last bit it's less poly and more cheating.