News / Ryszard Czarnecki - Poland's politician and Member of the European Parliament [28]

Oh yeah, this was because she was going to foreign [German] media and telling nasty tails about Poland, so he made the comparison to the szmalcownicy who betrayed Jews.

That's stupid if the EU parliament is indeed going to vote to dismiss him. How can you lose your position because of something you say? It wasn't even that bad. I mean, Korwin has said way worse things in the EU parliament and nothing has happened to him. Why? Because he isn't part of PiS, and the EU despises the current government so they will take any opportunity to hit them.

Life / Why are Polish people so strange & unusual? [51]


I've had completely the opposite experience. In general Polish people are honest, sometimes even bluntly so. American and British people act 'warm' and 'friendly' and then stab you in the back.


A lot of people act like - it isn't a Polish trait. Plus there are also many who don't act like this - stop generalising.


Personally I think you're just here to provoke. Polish people are not known for being negative or arrogant. You just posted this to get a reaction.


This is the only accusations you have made that has some truth to it. Polish people have been known to resent each others achievements and tell on each other, particularly in foreign countries. People of other nationalities generally stick together more.

There was an interesting story told recently, by somebody who did an interview with the immigration office in the USA and asked why so many Polish people were being deported from the USA, but for example, not many Mexicans. He asked if the crime rates etc. were that much worse with Polish people? The person he was interviewing laughed and said 'no, the difference is, when a Mexican is here illegally, his fellow Mexicans hide him and help him out. When a Polish person is here illegally, his fellow Poles, rather than keeping it quiet and helping him out, decide to hand him in. This is why so many Poles get caught and handed in.

News / Ryszard Czarnecki - Poland's politician and Member of the European Parliament [28]

More info please. What is this about? What is Ryszard Czarnecki being punished for saying? Do you have a link?

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

This guy wins the a--hole of the day award.

reuters.com/article/us-israel-poland/israeli-minister-honored-to-be-barred-from-poland-over-holocaust-bill-idUSKBN1FP2R2

The comments he made is really going to calm the situation down.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

So how about we cover it like this? If every time the Holocaust and how the Germans invaded Poland and set up camps to murder millions of Jews is talked about, we add a note saying that some of the Polish people collaborated with the Germans, we must also add the note that some Jews collaborated with the Germans too [and turned them in to the Soviets]. Strangely, you never seem to hear about the 2nd one.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

I think the main problem Israel and the USA have is that they underestimated just how patriotic and proud PiS are. They thought that if they reacted negatively enough to the law, PiS would back out of it, or at least alter it, but they'er not doing that and this is probably frustrating them. You can see the frustration in the faces of the Israeli 'friends of Poland.'

If a leftist government was at the helm in Poland, they would start apologising and talking about how ashamed they are of what their countrymen did or how awful their nation was during the war and would drop the law in a second. Nope, patriotic right-wing governments don't grovel like that.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

It shouldn't be and most people you would think, understand this, but some [perhaps those not from Europe] don't and if they hear that incorrect terminology, they will think that they were actually Polish, hence why I think the government want to take a harder stance on this, because people are tired of having to explaining it over and over. Although it's more to prevent deliberate untruthful provocation than somebody using the term by mistake.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Well they have passed it, now it's just up to the president to sign it. Since he has been talking so much about how we can't back down from this, it would be strange if he didn't. The only reason I could see him not would be if the threats from the USA have gotten to him, but then he'd get major backlash for it in Poland for it.


I've never trusted him and always believed he was only interested in what he can get out of this 'friendship' for Israeli, but I would have thought he would keep that quiet and not make it darn obvious. Instead, he goes on Polish TV and does interviews with Polish papers, saying both sides should calm down and try to work it out and that it's just a misunderstanding - then on social media he does nothing but talk about how wrong Poland is with everything it does.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Israel are behaving like a baby throwing its toys out of the pram in anger. Now they are just doing things to be nasty to Poland - first they slam Poland's law publicly, then make a counter law to that and now they want to get their ambassador out of Poland. It's pathetic.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Looks like some in the Israeli government are so offended by this Polish law being passed in the senate, they are calling for Israeli ambassador in Poland Anna Azari, to be recalled.

politico.eu/article/anna-azari-israel-to-recall-polish-ambassador-in-holocaust-law-spat

Doesn't bother me in the slightest - she was useless anyway. Also, Poland doesn't currently have an ambassador in Israel either I believe.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


No, I don't buy this. If there is a Nike store in Poland, would you say it's Polish? You wouldn't, because it isn't. You wouldn't say, the Polish Nike store, just because it has a branch in Poland.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

@Ziemowit

Why are you just copy and pasting your reply to different people?

Sure there are probably people here who are happy about this rift and hope Poland turns on the USA and finds a friend in Russia. Many of us don't see it that way though. Just because Poland is having issues with Israel and the USA right now, doesn't mean Russia are suddenly their great comrades.

I would much rather Poland have the USA as allies, but America has to understand that being an ally or a partner doesn't give them [or their best buddies Israel] carte blanche to instruct the Polish government what laws they can and can't pass and how they should be written.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


No, if such a thing took place, it wouldn't count as an action by the narod, it would count as a despicable act committed by a village in Poland.

People say that the law is unclear, but perhaps it is written in such a way to allow room for some common sense and treat each case separately?

If a teenager visits Auschwitz and asks about the Polish death camp, he should have it explained to him that there is no Polish death camp. If, on the other hand, a journalist purposely writes about how Poland co-operated with Germany and set up death camps with them, that's a blatant lie and should be punished. It should depend on who said it and if they said it knowingly. The courts will then be able to decide case by case.

Personally I think the phrase 'jak nie wiadomo o co chodzi to wiadomo o co chodzi' fits perfectly here. This isn't really about Israel being upset that Poland is trying to deny the Holocaust - they know it isn't doing that. It's about money.

If Germany and Poland are both responsibly for the murder of millions of Jews, then they both have to cough up. If Poland isn't guilty, it becomes a problem. It's no coincidence to me that the USA is also getting involved and trying to stop Poland from passing this law, given how they are trying to put S.447 through themselves.

congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/447/text?format=txt

Basically Israel looked at this Polish law and panicked, believing Poland was trying to cleans themselves of any wrongdoing. This would make it harder to extract money from them in future, if Poland was just as much a victim as the Jewish people.

I'm not even going to go in to other facts that are seldom spoken of and slightly derail the 'Jews were nothing but victims' compensation narrative - such as the fact that Jews themselves also co-operated with the Nazis and turned in other Jews. Or how some Jews turned Polish people in to the Soviets. Or that big powerful Jewish organisations in the USA knew what was going on and did nothing. Who's going to compensate for that?

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


No, I don't. What made you think I did?

I'm simply saying that the USA is trying to tell Poland how to run their nation and directing unnecessary threats at them if they don't.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


We obviously read things differently. Polish nation and Polish state doesn't say individual or individuals to me - it's effectively trying to prevent people from claiming the Polish nation worked together with Nazi Germany to make the Holocaust happen. It also says, whoever accuses publicly, against evidence. Members of PiS have made it clear that it isn't about somebody who doesn't know any better, mistakingly saying Polish death camps, it's about purposefully trying to mislead people, contrary to facts. They have also said that artistic work or research is exempt from this law, so it won't prevent anyone from looking in to the Holocaust further and discovering that Polish people did co-operate with the Germans in certain instances.


I don't think that PiS was deliberately trying to provoke anything. They simply had enough of the term 'Polish death camps' being used and people trying to skew the past and turn it in to 'Germany and Poland worked together to kill the Jews.' So they decided they would bring in a law to stop this.

You know Israel has got a similar law for Holocaust denial right? Only it's up to 5 years imprisonment, not just 3. Also, I doubt people will be imprisoned in Poland - that's just the maximum penalty. I expect fines might be dished out to those who purposely try to lie about Poland's involvement.

I agree about the USA's involvement though - it's insane that they are trying to get involved and are basically threatening Poland.

state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2018/01/277802.htm

'We are also concerned about the repercussions this draft legislation, if enacted, could have on Poland's strategic interests and relationships - including with the United States and Israel. The resulting divisions that may arise among our allies benefit only our rivals.'

That just sounds like another way of saying 'you pass this law and you can forget about a partnership with the USA.'

Anyway it has now been passed in the senate, so the president just needs to sign.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

I think it would annoy the non far-right standard PiS base a lot, yes. They vote for PiS because it's supposed to be a patriotic party who says Poland can stand on its own two feet.

If this law gets thrown out because Israel and the USA are unhappy with it, they'll be pissed.

PiS supporters don't mind a friendship with the USA and even Israel - they'll take that over any sort of relationship with Germany or Russia right now, but at the same time, they also don't like the idea of Poland being USA/Israel's *****.

If this gets a veto from the president because the Israeli government or American senators don't like it, many people in Poland won't be happy, and the suspicious voices saying that PiS is already just doing what the Americans and Jews tell them to do, voices that PiS supporters have so far tried to ignore for the most part, will seem more plausible.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Oh really? I don't think he will veto it. If he does, it will cause much uproar on the Polish right. Well, it's going to cause uproar with somebody one way or another.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Indeed the 500+ is a very helpful program.

By the way, the Polish senate is supposed to be voting on this 'Polish death camps' law tonight, or at least that's what was announced. It's after midnight there now though, so I don't know how long they are going to stay there.

Then if it goes through, the president just needs to sign.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

If think they are trying to focus on this too, hence the recent shake-up in personnel. Beata Szydlo it seems was there for the social help, families etc. Now Morawiecki is going to try and help pick up the economy and business in Poland.

However defending Poland's good name is something that mustn't be overlooked and I'm glad PiS and taking steps in that direction. Nations must defend their good name in the face of lies, and this is what this law is set to do.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Yes. The reason is for many of those years they were under Soviet occupation, so nothing was done to put this right. For the last 25 + years, there were various governments and presidents - most of them crap. This is the first time Poland has an actual patriotic party and patriotic president in charge and they have decided they've had enough of the false accusations, starting with Polish death camps. Hence, the law.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Knesset today has voted that the law Poland is planning to pass, would be considered Holocaust denial.

jpost.com/Israel-News/Majority-of-Knesset-backs-bill-accusing-Poland-of-Holocaust-denial-540311

As if reacting hysterically to the potential law wasn't bad enough, now they seem to be going for an all out war against Poland.

So effectively, if Poland passes thir law without corrections [that is looking likely], Israel's law will say that Poland's law is, against the law [if you get my drift].

I'm not quite sure how that would work though, since Poland and Israel's laws and for their own nations, so I don't see how an Israeli law can say a Polish law, meant for its own land, is illegal, but it would be illegal to Israelis as Holocaust denial is illegal in Israel.

What an absolute mess this is turning out to be.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Well there were voices who were saying he shouldn't be trusted and is no friend of Poland for a while now, but others preferred to believe he really was there just to try and improve Israeli-Polish relations and probably felt any criticism of him was caused by anti-Semitic prejudices. He did after talk a very nice talk, praise Poland and even organised events commemorating those who saved Jews during the war.

I was always sceptical of him, although didn't want to pre-judge. I preferred to just watch and see what happens [much like I was sceptical about the PiS reconstruction, but again, was and still am prepared to watch and see how it goes since not much time has passed since it took place].

Anyway, too may times now his true colours have shone through. I agree, it's good people are starting to catch on to his real intentions and it's good that Israel has kicked off such a stink about this law, because it shows their true colours too.

He delph, something we seem to be in complete agreement over - what a rarity.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Yep, the mask is slipping. He's much more keen to defend the Israeli side, than Polish side - even jumping to the defence of this trash Yair Lapid, who said there were Polish death camps.

twitter.com/mrjonnydaniels?lang=en

• 
  
  
• 
  
  

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Yep - he lied. Imagine my shock.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Oh he's doing what he can to calm things down - at least in some interviews for various Polish papers and on social media.

He has said that there were no Polish death camps, that it's a false term and anybody who uses it lies, but at the same time he hasn't said he supports the new law banning the term from bring used, or criticised any of those in Israel and elsewhere, who have attacked Poland in the last few days. How diplomatic of him.

Law / Polish girl does abortion in the UK, is it a crime in Poland? [8]

Yes it's a crime, against the life of the child. You should be ashamed of yourself.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

The saga is still going on and I have to admit I am following it with a keen eye.

It's all over both the Polish and Israeli media, although a lot of the Israeli media is very anti-Polish and very much against this potential law. Check out some of the quotes from this piece from the Times of Israel published today.

Titled 'Poland pisses off the bubbes,' the article more or less gives an overview of what has been going on in the Israeli press for the last couple of days.

timesofisrael.com/poland-pisses-off-the-bubbes


and another


The quote is from a series of letters from survivors to Polish President Andrzej Duda against the bill.


and there's also this


In a way, I think it's good this has happened. I think a false image was painted of the great friendship between Poland and Israel. Here we clearly see, just how many Jews not only believe Poland had a hand in the Holocaust, but were worse than the Germans.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


And this has nothing to do with their relationship with America right?

Funnily enough, you don't hear anyone complaining about the nuclear arsenal in Israeli.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

@Bieganski

I have to admit it is quite ironic to see videos of people from Jewish organisations calling for a multicultural Europe and saying Europe must take in Syrian and African migrants in order to survive, while they are giving the boot to African migrants in their own nation [and threatening them with prison if they don't leave] and persecuting Palestinians.


I think you have this the wrong way around. Poland was the top destination for Israeli tourists last year.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Perhaps, but it's such an odd move after members of the Israeli government, whatever their true intentions might be, had spent the last few months attempting to improve and strengthen relations with the Polish government. After all that, this just seems like a diplomatic error on their part - or perhaps it has indeed shown their true colours?

Again, I would understand if Poland was bringing in a law where nobody can ever say any Polish people did anything wrong during the Holocaust, but this is specifically referring to the death camps and that they weren't Polish. It's such a stupid overreaction by the Israeli side. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the diplomats who have been trying to look favourable to PiS, will be annoyed at how this has turned out. They didn't need this


Unless all long their real belief was that the criminals responsible were Polish, and with this potential law and their reaction to it, despite all the previous 'let's be friends,' the mask slipped.