Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]


Has it not? There's still plural form -s and something that reminds German genitive (-'s in singular /-' in plural), but for all intents and purposes it has vanished.

edit: I didn't read LLyzko's post, and I wrote in vain. Funny we used the same expression though :p

Language / Polish idioms involving colour [37]

Idiom doesn't have to be unique to a given language. However, Czarna Księga is a name and when you say biały niedźwiedź you always mean biały niedźwiedź, not anything else.

Language / Polish idioms involving colour [37]


Not an idiom.


Not an idiom.

Language / Polish idioms involving colour [37]


I don't know what these mean:
biała/czarna księga, białe niedźwiedzie, niebieski ptak, sklep za żółtymi firankami, czarna polewka
I strongly doubt you use złota młodzież when you do not discuss młodzież.

Language / Polish idioms involving colour [37]


She clearly copied them from the wiktionary. Not all of them are even used (I don't know the meaning of some of them)

Language / Polish idioms involving colour [37]

Biały jak śnieg is definitely not used as an idiom.

Blady jak trup (if you consider blady (pale) a color)

Odkładać na czarną godzinę (the meaning is similar to the title of a song Save a little money for a rainy day, but I don't know if it's used as an idiom in English)

Jasne jak słońce. (if you consider jasny (light) as color related)

A few more:

Widzieć świat w różowych okularach (to see everything in bright colors, to be very optimistic)

Czarno coś widzieć (to be very pessimistic about something)

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

My understanding was that noun declension in English vanished because English adopted a lot words that were cumbersome to decline, hence remained the same in all cases. As these loan words became more and more numerous, it seemed more natural to drop declension in the old vocabulary. I didn't suggest it was a rapid process.

Keep in mind that language while ever-evolving isn't changing that fast under normal circumstances, here are scans of 1584 print of Kochanowski's Fraszki and once you adjust to the font, only few phrases/expressions are troublesome for the reader.

libertas.pl/fraszki_jana_kochanowskiego_1_1.html

Though it might be the case that once national languages were described by linguists in XIV-XVI century and started to be used in books and poetry, their evolution slowed down a bit as they could be taught more systematically (though most people remained illiterate until XIX or even XX century).

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

Let's not forget that it was English that ditched noun declination because it adopted too many foreign words that weren't eligible for it. Now the direction is reverse LOL

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

You'd conjugate it the same way you conjugate pukać. Nothing mysterious here.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

I clicked on that international phonetic alphabet thing and frankly I don't understand most of the terms used there. I don't have sufficient knowledge to describe the difference, though I think this example would be kinda similar:


So I don't know, maybe tygrys and także have the same soung, maybe it's an allophone of the same sound, maybe it's something different altogether. I still find it amusing that instead of addressing a layman's argument in an area of your expertise (which should be very easy if you know your shit), the first thing you did was attacking them.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


That was Antek, I said no such thing. So far you (collectively you anddarius) did absolutely nothing to disprove that the sound in "także" is different from a regular 'g' in words such as "pogoda" or "tygrys". Only ad hominem attacks (stupid, deaf and uneducated), links to general wikipedia definitions etc. No constructive argument.

A biologist from your blood example would argue that while blood appears red, it is not a homogenous liquid, it is mostly water containing cells such as hemoglobins (which are red) and leukocytes (which are white, almost transparent, that the concentration of hemoglobins is so much bigger that their color is dominant, finally that if I don't believe him I can easily check it either through chemical experiments or just see these cells directly with scanning electron microscope.

Seriously, I find it mostly peculiar that you seem unable to construct a convincing argument.

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

Yes.
You stepped on someone's shoe (literally) etc. - you might say sorry
You did something unintentional but still caused some bigger damage (the other person fell because you run into her) - always przepraszam
You want to make your way through the crowd or want to ask a stranger on the street about something - always przepraszam
You regret doing something that hurt something emotionally - always przepraszam
You find yourself in a strong disagreement with someone and want to protest - "ej no sory ale (...)" - only in informal situations though

Language / Too many English words in the Polish language! [709]

Another derivative of 'sorry'. We imported "sorry" as it's only 2 syllables, but we certainly made the word our own :) Sory, sorki, sorka, sorcia and probably 5 more.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


There are convincing arguments that the Earth is spherical (not round! and you're a linguist? :P) that require you to understand only one thing (Coriolis acceleration) and I would concentrate around that, not just linking to physics 101 basics websites. The fact that the person wants to be assured that the Earth is not flat doesn't mean he/she's interested in physics or geography basics.

I'd say the better educated person in the field should be able to explain that only one single issue without throwing "teach yourself the basics" and overwhelming the other person with scientifical jargon.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


You wouldn't read them, because they would most likely be rather inaccessible. If we had Earth is flat argument and I behaved like the two of you, the discussion would go like:

"I think the Earth is flat, I don't trust satellite photos"
"Here's a picture of a satellite photo"
"I don't trust satellite photos"
"LOL Polish education system" (=you're an idiot)
"I think the Earth is flat, I don't trust satellite photos"
"But I am better educated in this field, and various professors say it's not flat"
"Can you provide me with some convincing argument?"
"Go educate yourself. Besides, here's a satellite photo"
You two were dancing around the real explanation and repeatedly refused to provide one. And please don't give me the time argument as you spent 2-3 hours discussing it anyway.


google also give 180 results for "chłobca" and no one hears "b" there. People misspelling stuff is hardly a proof of anything.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


Light is bit of an abstract subject, let's say that you (or *sigh* someone else) would say that he doesn't believe satellite photos and he sees no curvatures, how can he therefore assume the Earth is spherical. It doesn't mean he's an uneducated idiot (people believed the Earth was flat for a thousand years), only that he wants to see more convincing proofs. I could either swarm him with links to general mechanics textbooks and say 'figure it out yourself' or give him two precise and brief examples with further references.

Now guess what you did in post #62?

Time to go to bed :)


You gave no reason why the links are relevant to the discussion. Why should I click them?

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


The length is irrelevant really. When I see 5 links listed instead of a brief explanation followed by links for references, I won't click any of them.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


Imagine if we were discussing the nature of light, and I would only say that light is generally considered a wave, but we do not attribute a wave function to light particles and left you with the following links only,:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function

Would you read them?
Answer: you would not read them. And rightfully so.


You never said that (though darius actually did), but swarming with links without a proper commentary is exactly that.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


I'd sort of expect you to present an argument in a compact form that leaves no doubt, quote relevant parts from the sources you're referring to etc. "Go educate yourself, moron" is not an argument.


There's nothing to re-read, that's what you wrote and that's the message you tried to give.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]



As in to suggest "I'm an expert and I'm not to be questioned".
Again, don't swarm me with links, please.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


I remember when an older man offered us a place to put down our "palta" two years ago and all 8 of us chuckled. We were a mixed group from all parts of Poland.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


Swarming anyone with links is not constructing an argument. My argument was that 'g' is used for phonetic transcription as it;s the closest sound but not quite the same, you failed to shoot it down, escaping to attacking my credentials and intelligence.

I think we're done here, I'm not used to "take my word for it" arguments.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


What was the last time you heard "palto". As in, "zostaw palto", "powieś palto", "ubierz palto" etc.? Genuine question. If it was within the last 12 months, then we can start talking seriously, otherwise you should drop your arrogant and condescending tone.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


Again with that nonscientific crap. A scientist always questions everything. He has to be confident in his theory to have some base to work upon, but he can never be certain.

If someone came to me with some layman physics misconceptions, I'd find better arguments than "lol you have no credentials" and "take my word for it", because once I was a layman who might have had similar misconceptions and had to analyze the issue.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]

I only hear 'palto' and 'pantofle' in humoristic ways. Otherwise it's always kapcie or kurtka/płaszcz (even if technically palto would be better).


We are only stating how we pronounce it. You say that we cannot it pronounce it that way and that our pronunciation/hearing is imaginary.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


Yes, but scientist (physicists at least, as that's my background) never, and I mean never claim to possess the ultimate truth in any case. Unless they're very bad physicists. You OTOH claim to be the ultimate wisdom in your field.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


They'd shoot down the argument, not attack the person. Which is what you are unable of doing.


I'm not expecting to hear 'k' and I'm not arguing it's 'k'. As for your car example:
dictionary.reference.com/browse/car

Both pronunciations (w/ and w/o 'r') are suggested. Maybe people do pronounce it only you insist they don't.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


"G" might be used as a transcription because a sign has to be used and it's probably the closest one. However, my larynx and tongue do not move in the same way when I say "także" and "tygrys/pogoda" when k/g and g are pronounced. I also hear the subtle difference in sound, that's all there's to it.

I have to add, scientists in other branches of science (non-linguists) are a lot more humble and I never heard anyone saying "lol you have no credentials, Polish education sucks yaddayadda" as you two here are doing.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


I didn't ask wiktionary, I asked you.

Language / The usage and future of the special Polish letters: ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó, ś, ż, ź (Polish language) [203]


Cry me a river. I pronounce a sound that's between 'k' and 'g', at least not the same 'g' like in words 'pogoda' or 'tygrys', but the same sound like in 'pogrzeb'. No university professor quote will convince me otherwise.


Siemki :)