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Posts by Alligator  

Joined: 15 Dec 2010 / Male ♂
Last Post: 20 May 2012
Threads: -
Posts: Total: 248 / Live: 97 / Archived: 151

Speaks Polish?: yes

Displayed posts: 97 / page 1 of 4
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Alligator   
20 May 2012
Life / Anyone recognize this lullaby? 'Ah-ah-ah Ju ju spach...' [22]

Now we have "aaa już już spać, będzie mama..." [I can't recognize "co e sach" - maybe "snach"].

It means "aaa time to sleep, mum will..."
Still not enough.
Here you have Polish lullabies:
stronadzieci.pl/index.php?go=kolysanki-dla-dzieci
dziecko-info.rodzice.pl/archive/index.php/t-192182.html
Alligator   
20 May 2012
News / The Political Circus of Poland [306]

It's only reasonable to refrain from talking to or about person who can't reply.

It's seems that even more reasonable is not talking to him even after suspension.

the league of moral and/or intellectual midgets

Thats the name of your fanclub?!
Then I don't blame you that you don't want respect from them...
Alligator   
20 May 2012
News / The Political Circus of Poland [306]

Awwww.. you weren't included, even after that desperate vow:

Person they respect ?

Respect have to be earned.
Alligator   
20 May 2012
News / The Political Circus of Poland [306]

Alli, you are a person of honour.

You flatter me, pawian.
It's only reasonable to refrain from talking to or about person who can't reply.

Yes, she practises cheap journalism for simpletons.

I wouldn't call her a "journalist". Stalking people with camera is not a journalism (and I'm not talking here only about situation with Niesiołowski).

It is their great asset and a weakness, too. But more an asset, I suppose.

It may be an asset in elections, when everybody can find somebody in PO who is politicaly plausible.
Problem starts after elections, when Tusk can't be sure his own party members and of course when people start seeing less plausible members of PO.

What was the point of his recent "apostasy" ?

Extensive media coverage for him and his party. In that he succeded. But unfortunately by this he also did an ill turn for serious debate about religion in Poland.

He is the biggest joke of them all.

I agree that he is a joke, but I'm not sure if the biggest...
Alligator   
20 May 2012
News / Achievements of the Tusk's Polish government [532]

Officially the unemployment rate is close to 14% (higher than the average in UE)

I don't know which "official rate" you are talking about, probably offiacially issued by you, but nevermind.
Eurostat data for march 2012 show that unemployment rate in Poland is 10,1%, in France 10%, in EU 27 countries 10,2.

As to France, what was decided under sarkozy shall not apply

...and we shall see ;)

France is also a key to international politics whereas Poland does not exist.

Pawian! I have more interesting things than teaching you about France, a country that you hate and that obsesses you

everyday you learn something new...
... and not true:

Besides, people in Poland rely a lot on credit and I personally fear that what happened in Spain does happen in Poland very shortly.

Fear not! Poland have a much better situation in regard to personal debt than France:)
Again eurostat:

zadłużenie prywatne

DO NOT compare France and Poland

as pawian already pointed - you started.
Looks like you not only don't pay attention to other posts but also your very own posts. How about some reading comprehension training?

KONIEC

Promise?
Alligator   
18 May 2012
News / The Political Circus of Poland [306]

Alligator: I don't recall him claiming that he is impartial.

I am!:):):)

Ok, I stand corrected ;)

On the side note, seriously, people should get over the notion that they or anybody else is or can ever be impartial. Such trivial thing but still some don't get it i.e. Iron, but I'm not going to elaborate since he is now suspended.

Look how a notable PO politician attacks a TV reporter (PiS fan) who was filming him and trying to pry out an interview. The guy really should undergo some kind of therapy.

I always thought that he is a despicable person and politician.
More or less the same I think about Stankiewicz. The mess she started is the double-edged sword, she will also suffer. It's already apparent in the internet news and forums. Looks like every cloud has a silver lining, two horrible people exposed.

PO always seemed to me like a patchy party with very different people in respect of their opinions, political platforms and culture. Thats why there is a place there for Niesiołowski and in the old days for Palikot.
Alligator   
14 May 2012
News / The Political Circus of Poland [306]

because Kaczynski uses toiled that activity must be suspicious and condemned!

What?

By the virtue of the same logic

I would never put word logic and this:

because Kaczynski uses toiled that activity must be suspicious and condemned!

in one sentence. It's contradicting.

I'm making a point for the benefit of those readers who cannot be bothered to read all threads and all posts in a thread.

You don't have to bother yourself. I'm sure that people in this forum figured long time ago that everybody have their own opinions, and support different views.
Alligator   
13 May 2012
News / The Political Circus of Poland [306]

"Polish political circus" is the best description of current situation in Polish Parliament. In other countries the "street" is most radical, in our country conversely - Parliament is more radical than the street.

Tomasz Lis said that "for years we treated our politicians like clowns and now they became clowns".

Do not pretend to be impartial!

I don't recall him claiming that he is impartial. Quite conversely he alsways stated that he support PO. So don't be so surprised and indignant in every god damn thread... Nobody is pretending that and you behave like you are discovering America every other day! Because of repetitiveness it became boring and meaningless, just like the arguments of our political class.

One word of commentary: stinking hypocrites!

Nothing new... Miller gave recently speach in which he said: it is time for SLD to regain power. After French elections he thinks that also in Poland left-wing party will win in next elections. Somebody needs to explain him that claiming to be leftist doesn't mean that you actually are.

Kaczyński and Miller, were planning to introduce the retirement reform when they were in power in 2000s.

Yes, Kaczyński also wanted to introduce retirement reform, but hey! who remembers that!? It was in 2008, ages ago!
Alligator   
10 May 2012
Life / Polish patriotic music! [40]

Polish knights sang it as an anthem before the Battle of Grunwald

and the Teutonic Knights sang "Chrystus zmartwychwstał". Bizzare since the Teutonic Knights proper name was: The Order of Brothers of the German House of Saint Mary in Jerusalem. They should have swap songs ;)

As for military/patriotic songs I propose pieśni legionowe:



"O mój rozmarynie"
"Bywaj dziewczę zdrowe"
"Przybyli ułani"
"Pierwsza kadrowa"
"Rozkwitały pąki białych róż"
Alligator   
2 May 2012
History / Origins of Polish Slavs [138]

There were Celts once at the area of today's Poland.

They were in the southern part of Poland. I saw in Kraków the exibition of Celts artefacts from the area of Małopolska few years ago. There is a theory that the name of Kielce city comes from Celts.
Alligator   
1 May 2012
History / Origins of Polish Slavs [138]

S£AWA!

Not "sława" but rather "słowa".
There are many theories explainig the origin of the word "słowianie", but the most probable (at least to me) is the theory that says that the word "słowianie" comes from "słowo" - "word". It was a way to describe people who knew words, who had the same language.

This theory explains also why we call Germans - Niemcy. Niemcy from "niemi" - "mute", people without words, people who don't use the same language and people with whom "słowianie" can't communicate.
Alligator   
17 Apr 2012
Life / Do Polish names generally have a meaning to them or a particular structure?. [88]

You and who exactly?
I agree with Ozi Dan and Des Essientes.

Status is a social descriptor, but szlachta were not defined by their social mobility, rather their legal one. If you can find me a piece of genuine, contemporary evidence proving your position then it is vindicated. If you cannot, then you have lost the debate.

Alligator   
16 Apr 2012
News / Polish Silesian Autonomy movement [67]

about Jarosław Kaczyński's comments on Silesian nationality.

Kaczyński is playing Silesian card only to give impression that he is a true patriot, that he only care about Poland, it's borders etc.

The problem is that only a small percent (about 6-7) of Silesians want an autoonomy. That is not a problem for him ;)
By his stupid commets he will only enlarge the autonomic sentiment, which in turn will be a good thing for him. Then he will say that he predicted that long time ago and will say: "I told you. You didn't listen then and now we have a problem." He will come of as true patriot and will stirr the emotions on both sides even more.

He is a far sighted politician (when it concern his party) and at the same time a very short sighted one (when it concern the country and national iterest).

Again I'd challenge you to find anyone who's writing anything "more insightful" about the region (Upper Silesia/Zagłębie) in English. Mafketis couldn't - I doubt you'll be able to.

You are writing an article and you want me and Mafketis to prepare for you material and essentialy write it for you. Furthemore you are trying to use a childish challenge. Give me a break...

I'm out of here.
Alligator   
16 Apr 2012
News / Polish Silesian Autonomy movement [67]

All I said in the article was that Dmowski held an anti-German position - I didn't say there was anything wrong with that.

That wasn't a problem.
The thing is you wrote that he held anti-German position because of his nationalistic ideas. I would rather write because of partitions, and subsequetly because of strugle for independence and finaly because of nationalism. Not because of just nationalistic position, which gives a sense that ND and Dmowski were a bunch of backward nationalists, stirring unnecessary problems. You also wrote "Roman Dmowski's National Democrats turned to Russia for support in creating a Polish nation state (unsuccessfully it should be added - the Russians were as hostile as anyone to the cause of Polish nationalism)", like it was a big news for Dmowski or any Polish politician that Russians were also enemies. But I'm not surprised now about your oversimplification and generalization since you read

A Concise History

. Don't give me excuses that you were

just trying to outline it very briefly

. Either don't try to give any historical brief outline (if it's going to be amatourish and uninformative) or give proper explanation and put some effort in your reading material (proper does not rule out brief).

Piłsudski didn't worry to much about Polish law and constitution, which led him to coup d'etat in 1926. Kaczyński also didn't like Polish constitution... Dmowski on the other hand operated only in the boundaries that constitution gave him. One don't need to support his views to admire his political sense. Sory, but I'm not going to give you much credit on your statements about Dmowski, Piłsudki and Kaczyński, because you clearly lack in knowledge about either of them.

Thats all great but neither Dmowski nor Piłsudski asked Lithuanians, Belarussians or Ucrainians if they wanted to create such a state. It was impossible then, because of young and violent (it's related) nationalism in those countries.

What are your views on Silesian Autonomy?

The idea of autonomy is not a very popular idea in Silesia and I don't know what is the sense in doing that. Why I don't know - because I have read the RAŚ declarations on their site and they don't give any explanation to a question: what is the sense of autonomy since most of the people who live in Silesia feel Polish? They wrote:

"Of course, autonomy does not lead to ethnic cleansing. The autonomy will benefit everyone - except the control panel - regardless of nationality or political convictions. Self-governance is not about the exclusion of any group, the benefits are for all residents. Nobody intends to introduce a national or racial segregation, in fact, after all, by definition, autonomous Silesia to remain within the Polish Republic.The fight for autonomy may be a common objective for all citizens of our region."

Since they didn't give an actual explanation, how should I know, why Silesia should be an autonomy...
RAŚ activists and politicians aren't clearly the brightest bunch in Silesia. I think that nothing will come out of it.
Alligator   
16 Apr 2012
News / Polish Silesian Autonomy movement [67]

Tommo
about your article:
"This anti-German strain of Polish nationalism dates back to the days of partition, when Roman Dmowski's National Democrats turned to Russia for support in creating a Polish nation state (unsuccessfully it should be added - the Russians were as hostile as anyone to the cause of Polish nationalism)."

I recommend you to read something before you write an article. What you wrote about the political history of Poland is a heresy...
Roman Dmowski in his book "Germany, Russia and the case of Poland" clearly explained why he thought it would be better to support Russia in IWW and not Germany and Austria. He wrote that if G. and A. will win the war, Poland would gain nothing. If Russia will win, the Polish lands that G. and A. took, will be united with those that were taken by Russia. Victorious Russia would be forced to give more political rights to then bigger Polish minority. Mind that, when Dmowski created this strategy, Russian regime had a hard time after 1905 revolution. Dmowski thought, and rightly so, that Russia is politicaly weeker than Germany and Austria.

However Dmowski didn't limit his conception to political matters. He looked also at the potential of those nations and their civilization position. According to Dmowski, Germany was to strong culturally and civilizationaly. Because of that politic of germanization of Poles would be more successful than russification. Russia was civilizationaly and culturaly-wise less threatening.

I assure you that after more than 100 years of partitions he had a pretty good idea about Germany, Austria and Russia and about their attitude to Poles and their independence...

"(based, like Dmowski's on ethnicity, language and religion) is much narrower than that of Poland's two great nationalist heroes. The Romantic poet Adam Mickiewicz (1798-1855) and the war general Józef Piłsudski (1867-1935) both saw Poland as a commonwealth of different national groups (Poles, Lithuanians, Belorussians, Ukrainians, etc.) in what would essentially have been an anti-Russian alliance (possibly as part of a German-controlled Mitteleuropa)."

Roman Dmowski in march 1917 wrote a note to Artur Balfour, secretary in British Foreign Office. In that note he wrote that Poland can not have historical borders (it was at that time unrealistic) nor ethnical borders. He demanded inclusion of Gdańsk, Eastern Prussia, Upper Silesia, Vilnus, and Lvov.

He was a pragmatic and his political ideas were realistic.
It's a funny thing that you putted forward Mickiewicz and Piłsudski as an opposition to Dmowski. First was a romantic in literature field, the second, a romantic in a political field.

I wouldn't also say, that Kaczyński's idol is Dmowski. Rather Piłsudski and his big romantic and unrealistic ideas.
Because of what you wrote in the first article I have a bad feeling about your next article...
Since you are a teacher and probably don't have anything against reading, I recommend you to do that...
There is a ton of books on Dmowski and Piłsudski and their stances, and still you wrote such silly things. There is almost nothing about RAŚ and authonomy and this time you will write something

more insightful in English about the region

. I highly doubt...
Alligator   
13 Apr 2012
Life / Do Polish names generally have a meaning to them or a particular structure?. [88]

the 1st Republic is a prima facie example of this.

By saying that IRP was an example of that, you can't possibly mean three centuries of IRP?
I'm not saying that Noble Democracy didn't deteriorate in the last years before it was attacked by Russia, Prussia and Austria, but saying that the system of a country for three hundred years was an Anarchy is a bit too much...
Alligator   
13 Apr 2012
Life / Do Polish names generally have a meaning to them or a particular structure?. [88]

Polish Count called Maximilian

The Polish idea of nobility was that every noble is equal and he can't use titles other than titles of their state or military office/function. Those wo are using such titles bought them from other monarchies in XVIII c. or obtained them in XIX c. when the Prussian, Russian and Austrian idea of nobility was imposed.

There were some instances of buying titles befor XVIII but they were limited to the richest nobles and their titles had no meaning in IRP anyway.

Chleb
If you want a noble in your book, go for -ska/ski ending of surname. However you must remember that not every noble had a ski/ska ended surname, and not everybody who had ski/ska were noble.
Alligator   
13 Apr 2012
Life / Do Polish names generally have a meaning to them or a particular structure?. [88]

We are providing social context to your book free of charge. Isn't that great!:D

In English (as in French) it implies responsibility. The British nobility had a responsibility to provide soldiers and to exercise the law in manorial courts.

The same responsibility had Polish szlachta. The pretext on which their privileges were based was obligation to provide unpaid military service (pospolite ruszenie). They constitued the lower and higher chamber of Parliament (Izba Poselska, Senat). They had the juridicial power over rest of society. They (and in most cases only they) held the state offices. What's your point in degrading them?

But can you say the Polish Freemen always had a high social standing?

Yes, always. Regardles of his wealth he was always a noble, a part of the high social class, with the same responsibilities, rights and privileges as the most afluent noble in Poland.

Don't come up with superficial definitions that have no relation to reality. Szlachta was nobility in Poland.

Unfortunately as with all forms of anarchy, the powerful (i.e. the true nobility) flourished at the expense of others.

For your information, the political system of I RP was Noble Democracy, not Anarchy. My point about stereotypes went straight over your head...

If you don't trust wikipedia, then read some books on the subject. Carlyle had no idea; Davies would be fine. I recommend God's Playground.
Alligator   
13 Apr 2012
Life / Do Polish names generally have a meaning to them or a particular structure?. [88]

'Nobility' is an English word

which comes from Latin and means a famous person. In later times a person of high social position in society. That is why Davis used it to describe such social group in Poland, France, etc. He didn't mean that in every element they were the same as British nobility. The common platform was a high social standing in their respective societies.

Being szlachta had much more to do with Freedom than responsibility

You are wrong. This is a part of a myth that is about 300 years old.
I can see that old stereotype is still thriving in West countries ;) I repeat: the stereotype. Let me give an example: in the first volume of French encyclopedia under the letter "A", the longest article was about "anarchy" and almost whole was about Poland. As if anarchy was a distinctively Polish "thing". It's not all. For example, the Liberum veto was not so stupid, as some believe. The usage of this legal mean since the mid-seventeenth century, especially in the eighteenth century, was of course detrimental to Poland. But the very notion of Liberum veto had a lot of sense and it worked well till second half of XVII c.

Beware of any wikipedia entry

I'm quite aware of that,

Normally I'm not using wikipedia as a source of information

But I'm not using this, not because of your conspiration theory, but simply because most of the articles there were written by morons to morons.
Alligator   
13 Apr 2012
Life / Do Polish names generally have a meaning to them or a particular structure?. [88]

Norman Davies describes the situation rather well.

Yes, he did, but you still don't get it...



In "God's Playground" he is using "nobility" as an exact word to describe szlachta. If you read his book as you claim, we shouldn't disscuss this.

to describe them as nobility implies that there was a sense of nobless oblige, a noble code governing behaviour and a socio-economic distinction between themselves and those around them.

Exactly, Polish szlachta had that.
Normally I'm not using wikipedia as a source of information, but since you possess such a vast knowledge of the subject...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szlachta
Alligator   
13 Apr 2012
Life / Do Polish names generally have a meaning to them or a particular structure?. [88]

Even 'gentry' is stretching it - Freemen is a better translation - the ones in the UK had (at the time Poland had its 1st Republic) an analagous legal status to Polish szlachty, were often affluent in relation to their neighbours and during that same period were gentrifying.

Exactly - nobility is the wrong word and the wrong concept.

You are trying to define Polish nobles by using English definitions and this is wrong approach. In case of Polish nobility you will never get the same or even close result to British, French, Spanish etc. nobility. You can't compare noble classes of those countries and claim which was more "noble". Every country, although they are European, had distinctily different social, political history. What was considered noble in Poland, wasn't necessarily in any other country and vice versa.

Norman Davis compares them to a caste rather than a stratum

If we agree that nobility is a high social class, to which one belonged by virtue of hereditary or honorary rank; possessed privileges and rights not granted to members of other classes in a society, then Polish szlachta and British nobility were the same.

In Poland the wealth of a noble didn't matter. Even if he was poor as peasant, he still had the same privileges and rights as other nobles.

I don't know why Davis is using such silly comparisons,... maybe because British can't get that wealthy doesn't mean noble ;)

Szlachta (nobility:) within it's class was very democratic. The principle of equality within the nobility was almost sacred. And it has been adopted by all Poles. Panowie bracia! :) Many of the principles which governed the Ist Republic of nobility, are also a modern democracy principles.

This is spot on - the best way to describe them is as Freemen who due to an antiquated system surviving developed entrenched customs and marriage rules - there are interesting parallels with Mauretanian society today.

If you will use the definitions used in other countries you will always get the wrong result. With those definition comes theirs original meaning, which is always to some degree different from the thing you want to apply it that comes from another country.

Any comparisons, be it British nobility, gentry, Roman citizen etc will always fail. Szlachta is nobility in Poland, end of story.
Alligator   
13 Apr 2012
Life / Do Polish names generally have a meaning to them or a particular structure?. [88]

Not just some nobody describing themselves as 'szlachta' (which does NOT mean nobility, or even gentry)

Szlachta means nobility (not gentry). The difference between Polish and other European nobility is that it was not wealth or lifestyle that constituted nobility, but hereditary juridical status. Nobility belonged to those of "noble birth" that is those whose parents were of the same noble origin (since 1505 at least the father had to be a noble).

Legally in Poland, there was no distinction between higher and lower nobility, the differences lied only in wealth. The system of nobility democracy in I RP equated the rights of all of noble birth.

Polish nobility can't be compared to it's counterparts in other countries. Unlike the Polish nobles they were divided into layers with distinct rights.

Read Carlyle on the matter.

He clearly had no idea about Polish nobility.
Read something else, preferably something written in XX or XXI c.

Golden Misgovernment and Self-destructive Chaos might be a better description

Since second half of XVII c. and because of continuous and destructive wars. In earlier times it worked well.
Alligator   
9 Apr 2012
Life / Lodz vs Wroclaw - difference in mentality of people? [53]

No premarital sex? Half the the people I met had children and werent married. No drinking?

Well you can drink, have fun, but there are more restricions on that than in any other place in Poland. For example you have there clubs but they are under more control and restrictions and they are open seldomly than anywhere else.

The way of private life is also under more scrutinity. I'm not talking here about people who actually live there, but those who come there as pilgrims. They are coming there because of sanctuary and are behaving more zelaously than normally. They also tend to impose the same behaviour on others. If you live near sanctuary it is nothing new to you and you also behave normally. You sometimes drink, have fun and wear more reveling clothes in the summer. Pilgrims sometimes have problem with that. Thats all I wanted to point out.

People from Częstochowa are sick and tired of this, so if you will talk to them you will see that they have even more liberal views than other Poles. It's a reaction to strict rules that clergy and pilgrims are imposing on them.
Alligator   
9 Apr 2012
Life / Lodz vs Wroclaw - difference in mentality of people? [53]

They were quite right. Krakow doesn`t need those Russians from former Russian partition. :)

A priest from a village near Gniezno told me once how people from there called people from near village - Słupca. They called them Poles :)

Near Słupca was once border between Prussian and Russian annexed territories...
Alligator   
9 Apr 2012
Life / Lodz vs Wroclaw - difference in mentality of people? [53]

Try the article in "Polityka" : "Boat people, life in the trains £ódź-Warszawa". I

Very interesting article. Each day 250 thousand people from £ódź goes to Warsaw to work there.
For me it would be a terrible perspective. I like to travel ;) but thats to much...
Alligator   
9 Apr 2012
Life / Lodz vs Wroclaw - difference in mentality of people? [53]

Czestochowa.

Thats a no, no, no...
Apparently you never lived there.
There are several thing you can't do when you live near the spiritual capital of a country. To go there as a tourist or pilgrim is one thing, but to live there is completly another thing.

Personaly I pity people who live in Częstochowa, £ódź and Oświęcim.