Life / POLISH MYTHS - let's debunk or prove them! [140]


I just read somewhere here, that only 17% of Poles eat fish. Things start to add up... Polish kitchen is definitely based on reasonable premises. Healthy kitchen. Fact.

Life / POLISH MYTHS - let's debunk or prove them! [140]


Now you're talking. Yeah, no argument here. You get that blinking orange lamp, and off you go. Battery operated... now that's a vicious circle, isn't it? PP was right.

Poles are the saddest nation on Earth. MYTH! :)

Life / POLISH MYTHS - let's debunk or prove them! [140]


Nor alcohol. Alcohol is bad for you.

Oh, I heard about a man who stepped on broken glass, got a splinter in his blood, it travelled to his heart, and killed him on the spot. Myth?


I am said. I know it. Now I do agree, that I do not constitute the nation. Sad, innit...

Life / POLISH MYTHS - let's debunk or prove them! [140]


So we can keep our glass thermometers. Empty.

hold on... there are quite big veins just under the skin...

:)

History / United States of America Vs Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth [74]


What Sokrates forgot to mention, during the state of war the Sejm usually operated pod węzłem konfederacji, 'under the knot of confederation', literally. Which meant some privileges were suspended, including liberum veto.


Husaria was the most efficient cavalry ever, Polish sabre the peak of development, and we had the best tacticians in Europe, by dozens.

Right. I meant the period of Rzeczpospolita Szlachecka, when the king could not wage a foreign war using the army of the state without the consent of Sejm, and didn't usually get it, as it meant increase in taxes. Can't recollect any aggressive war in this period, except for Batory's trip to Moscow.

The gentry youth's proficiency in arms came from the proud and sanctified Sarmatic Tradition, on one hand, but mostly from the constant turmoil in the East, which was not provoked by Poland, but offered military career opportunities for poorer gents, and for younger sons. I say 'mostly' because of Kochanowski and his references to the Sarmatic ideal of the time: grow corn and cattle in peace, and sell it for gold to hungry Englismen. And keep your karabela on you at all times.


Russia, I know, Batory. Now count how many times Moscovites tried to invade Poland. In the diaries it comes back again and again like a broken record: 'and Moscow came again this year, got beaten by...' Sweden I do not remember, really. Wallachia, possibly, but with this unimportant nation I don't even remember when could it be. As for the Teutonic order and the Electorate, we are talking PLC here...


That would be Russia and Sweden. Turkey was mostly happy with what they got, and waged war on Poland as a means to stop the highly annoying Zaporozhan raids rather...


Yet they tried again and again, some of them. 'Gutless' as in 'not minding their business of conquering their weaker neighbours'. Who didn't always pay back with similar indifference.


Not quite so, I'd say. Mobilisations were usually late. West was having their own problems. South was the Jagiellonian House, and quite friendly. East... Tartars the eternal troublemakers, but Turkey as such not really interested, at the end of the day. Russians with their dream of power, yes, but you can't really call it a war every time. Sweden should have been dealt with better, both politically and militarily, if need be. During the 16th century Poland enjoyed peace, only later the demons woke up. As a result of neglecting the reasonable politics of the time, i.e. taking them out while they are weak. Hence - a pacifist nation.


And don't forget the utterly stupid claim to the Swedish crown, which irked Gustavus in the first place.

You got it nicely in the nutshell, though, pleasure to read. Except that there would be no invaders, if PLC dealt with them in time, on its own terms, while in power. But that would be a different country then, wouldn't it. Different history with different twists

Life / POLISH MYTHS - let's debunk or prove them! [140]


Another myth busted.

So what am I supposed to be afraid of now?

:(

Life / POLISH MYTHS - let's debunk or prove them! [140]


But frowning is about forehead isn't it? MYTH! :)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]



Led by PPR activists, if it means anything to you. Hundreds of people rioting for hours with no reaction from the authorities. Lack of control in a big city under established communist government.

You really do live in a different world, MG, both physically and mentally. And you know sh1t about history of Poland, either glorious or infamous. You'd better shut up in this topic, for your own good.


Now on this you're dead right, hats off. The only Jew ever who could tread water had already been dead for more than a millenium.

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


Right. Actually, I was quoting Schriftenstein, from memory, one of his obscure manuscripts. Hope this helps.

UK, Ireland / Poles - go home make your country better [40]


Families can be brought along :)

I, for one, like it here. Somehow.

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


Exactly. So glad to find common language with you at last.

BTW, you know van Damrak had Polish roots? His grand-grandfather was one Mosze Hosenduft from Lodz. Litzmannstadt, as you may know it.

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

You have advantage over me here, I am not well versed in the great an honourable Dutch names, so I can't really appreciate how muchly elevated the humble Mosze was. He was not a nobility, though, as you might have deduced right now. That's one of those nuances of Polish history that you seem to somehow miserably miss.

Don't let it bother you, however. It's the 21st century.

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]


Huh? Verbally, mostly...

You mean what about? Excuse my lame English.

The popular topics are:
- abuse of the benefit system
- laziness and lack of competence, paired with:
- inflated expectations, 'gimme' attitude
- playing the race-abuse Card
- criminal inclinations
- racism... group-favoritism, let's call it

Hard to say which are the most popular. Important (and rather obvious to most people) thing is, that these accusations are not directed against 'non-Polish immigrants' in general, and not even against 'non-white immigrants' in general. There are specific groups that are targeted, although they can be often wholly contained in one race.

Besides, many opinions on particular groups are not exactly complaints, just observations which may, or may not, be considered derogatory. Like "Indians know how to make money'. This maybe followed either by 'fvcking leeches', or by a resigned/envious sigh, depending on personal taste.


Granted, but this was just an off-hand remark, so we can be more forgiving here.


That's somewhere in the direction I am aiming at, but it's a simplification. Actually, if you concentrate on legality, it's not a general attitude. Before 2004 Poles were illegal here, and the memory is still quite fresh, so legality is rather a supporting argument only.

The thing is more complicated. Of course, from a newcomer you may hear 'blacks are lazy cvnts', but quickly the fresh immigrant learns how to recognize a West Indian from a Somali, and opinions get differentiated.

To put in practical context:

Nigeria - system abusers, crooks, thieves
Somalia - similar, but more inclined to work as a pack
Ghana - nice people, actually
West Indies - warm, friendly, hard working, decent, racist; this doesn't include the rasta-reggae-ganja' type, another box.
Pakistani - cowardly crooks, never to be fully trusted
Filipino - sympathetic, hard working carers, poor girls
China - DVD dealers; crooks, but useful; harmless
Thailand - well... nice girls

Then whites, separated for the benefit of... Ok:

Czechs, Slovaks - easy to get along with, good companions, maybe a bit too materialistic (and sorry for bundling the two nations together)
Romanians - thieves, beggars
Lithuanians - working horses, if not too bright, with a grudge against Poles
Russians - actually quite all right and amiable... those who came here, that is
Hungarians - acceptable, no specific characteristics, just regular people
Jews (are Jews white, MG? ) - good neighbours, respectable; tough in price negotiations, yet honest in agreed payment, unlike the Indians
Irish - good companions, but b1tches at work.
English - oh, they are natives...
Poles, right - now that's a whole big story

The bottom line is:

Poles might be 'in the same boat', as MG said elsewhere, but it doesn't have the slightest importance, unless somebody... well. There are much more important factors than the immigration status of whatever group. Namely, the group's characteristics, as perceived. Not without reasons.

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]


Same in the UK... except here we include European immigrants in the privilege.


Good for you. But we are discussing Poles here, not you.


Point is, that the boat is not really important for us. Like, arbitrary grouping is waste of time and renders misleading conclusions.


Off-topic, like. See the title.

Well, formally off-topic, but has to be addressed anyway, if the topic is to stay. So:
1. Maybe the topic has been discussed, still there are people who keep repeating the question, in bewilderment, so we might as well try and resolve it at last.

2. If the topic is against the forum rules, then
a) all the numerous previous discussions that you refer to should've been killed in the cradle; they weren't, I presume
b) you shouldn't have asked the question in the first place. Seems to me the rules are for all members.


*sigh*

Please imagine that I included the following request as a part of the topic:

'And no personal jabs, please'.

And you are free not to participate, thus making it much harder for Bzibzioh to get back at you personally. Not that I wouldn't rather that you elaborated on your statement, maybe to the benefit of all.

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]


You are getting too touchy. Understandable after the recent thrashing, but please.

You nick was mentioned just once, in quoted remark. Thus I tried to illustrate my previous frame of mind, and distance myself from it. Sorry for failing to communicate.

If you feel like contributing to the topic, you are welcome. If not, please consider yourself kindly requested to stroll away to the Random.


No, hence the topic at all. I don't agree with the generalization 'other immigrants'. I don't agree with specifically targeting Poles on the issue as well, but this is Polish forums, about Poles, so this is not much of a problem.

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]


Sorry, I meant 'work' in a very specific way. More like 'attack', hence the 'pack'.


:)

*astonished, actually*


not going to argue, I was just describing the Polish POV. As you say, they keep most their problems to themselves. And cannabis on the streets... first, I associate it with black rather, than yellow. Second... weed is... not that I am using it...


You and me, Ok, but I was speaking of a 'typical Pole, naturally racist'. A 'typical' whoever is usually dumber than most of the individuals who contributed to the type. What actually surprised me here, was that all Poles I met consider mixed Jewish-English areas the best for living. Quiet, clean, safe, nice neighbours, both unimposing and helpful in case.


Right, I forgot the orthodox. Shows I have no issue with them either - and I didn't remember any other Pole who had. Now that you mentioned it, my reaction to the orthodox area was rather that of a tourist, tinted with some typically Polish sentimental sentiments.

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]


Hard to complain about Nigerians in PL


No it's not :) Being a bit provocative, or what. Or hoping to see if anybody notices that. The generalisation, I mean. Singling out Poles doesn't bother me.


Huh? I am not quite getting your meaning... clean and safe as opposed to Newham, for example. Or do you consider this remark a racist one?

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]

Entirely on topic this time, wholeheartedly congratulated. Thank you so very much indeed.

MG, the topic is about complaints of Polish immigrants. You made a statement, in a form of question, and that's how the thread originated. If you don't want to back up your statement as it is, nor to modify it, nor to add to it, nor to ask relevant questions, then your presence here is not desired. This topic, imagine that, is not about you. Start a new thread, if you wish, I might even pop in so that you'll have still more fun wiping the floor. But not here, please.

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]


:) our ingeniousness is widely known


Ah, yes. We are not following our stereotypes blindly :)


Ok. It was like unfinished, the second one. Because
'I don't agree with specifically targeting Poles on the issue as well, but this is Polish forums, about Poles, so this is not much of a problem.' People can make quick simplified remarks, that's life, and we talk Poles here, so it's the easier to utter something that looks like actual singling out. Whether it is or not, remains to be explained. If so, then it bothers me in a way, yes.

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]

Shame about Gurkhas, yes. Good that it ended well, afaik.


lokshen kugel. You're damn fast, man! :)

Somalis get along well with Somalis. And no need to evade evaluation.

This having said, I work with a Somali girl, and no problems. Very nice person.

Edit:
She's spent most of her life in Finland, now I remember...

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]

Old story. Drop it.


Gurkhas. Different story.

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]


Yet they were allowed to stay in the UK no problem, actually. Gurkhas needed special lobbying, as late as last year, if I remember well.

And - Poles fought for Britain, but only because of the Alliance, so somehow in self-interest. Gurkhas did not fight for Nepal. Even if you treat them as mercenaries, they did well.


Not legal. Only UK citizens for ?? years allowed. I bet some Polish youth would much prefer UK uniform to hammer and chisel.


Actually... they took part in Monte Cassino, quite a lot, and strong hope was they will prevail. The thing needed Poles, though, so no shame to Gurkhas, really...

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]

Lost me again. You hint at kosynierzy, or perhaps sickle?

-------

The thread seems to have started wandering, so it's like close to dead.

Dear Mods, please let it live for a day or two, and then I will post conclusions, Ok?

Life / How can Polish immigrants complain about other immigrants? [65]


And sometimes they get more interesting then. Sometimes.


so... are you free, then?

just asking...

Oh, forget it...

:(


Scout's word. And she smirks at the English who can't get to work through 5 cm of snow.


Ts, I'd be there first flight. My grandpa digged out a sabre behind his barn. Nie damy zieeeemi skąd nasz ród!!

History / When will you Poles give back German land and the cities which you robbed? [557]


they couldn't keep it, though. Fighting against civilians unwilling to be Germans. Warsaw had no say the uprisings, being busy in the East, and then more like near Wisla.

History / When will you Poles give back German land and the cities which you robbed? [557]


'Please' is not an argument in history. Tell me of the intervening Polish army, then I might reconsider.

History / When will you Poles give back German land and the cities which you robbed? [557]


So how many Polish regular units were fighting there?


You know you are being nasty now...


Pphulease, BB... Nobody sane in Poland claims that Lvovians are indigenous to Wroclaw :)

History / When will you Poles give back German land and the cities which you robbed? [557]


Hey hey, he wasn't a Silesian. Not even born in Silesia, and not ever living in Silesia. He was from Jastrzębie, which is Czerwone Zagłębie, which is Aldrajch, not Silesia. Gorol z goroli, and mostly living in Belgium anyway.

History / When will you Poles give back German land and the cities which you robbed? [557]


Geez, BB, are you being serious? the key word is Western. Western Germany. As opposed to Eastern Germany and PRL. People who didn't even speak German, and their only chance to get the citizenship was a grandpa in Wehrmacht.