Po polsku / Tragedia jezykowa, czyli "stay on topic" LOL. [95]


'bedom', Borrka. Polska język trudna język, ale po tobie się tego nie spodziewałem :)

'W cudzysłowiu' to jest tak popularny i dawny błąd, że już chyba stał się normą. Język się zmienia.

Znaczy, ja też tak mówię, chociaż ktoś mnie kiedyś był oświecił dawno temu :)

News / Victory in 'anti-Polish camps' campaign in US [170]


But not in the SS? That's what it all was about.


*sigh* Right. Polish citizen. Citizen of Poland. Not a Pole. Not Jewish Pole, which is an oxymoron. Polish Jew, like Polish Ukrainian, although the latter is seldom used.

'Pole' means a person of Polish nationality. Polish citizen means a person with Polish passport, simply speaking. There were loads of Polish citizens in the pre-war Poland, who weren't Poles, and many of them would've been rather upset if somebody called them that. Some of them fought against Poland, in order to create their own country, where they will be free of Poles. Some of them were murdered in the Holocaust, because they were Jews, not Poles, and this is a widely known and accepted fact. Otherwise Germany would pay head money to Poland now, not to Israel. Israel, a country where initially, and for a long time afterwards, the Knesset members disputed in Yiddish, but when it came to name calling, reverted to the rather more familiar Polish language - yet these people, if called Poles, would laugh their heads off, or maybe they'd sue for slander, as this would be a lie damaging their political career.

a Pole (noun): a person of Polish nationality. Somebody with ancestors of Polish nationality, living Polish culture, speaking Polish language, and feeling himself a Pole.

a Polish (noun): as above. Now more popular in usage.

Polish (adjective): referring to, or pertaining to Poland or Poles. Thus 'Polish Jew' is a citizen of Poland, of Jewish ethnicity and, most probably, a follower of Judaism. Not a Pole, which is of Polish ethnicity by definition, or, exceptionally, has adopted Polishness over a long period of naturalisation, usually stretching over generations, by abandoning his previous culture and national identity. The are usually called Poles of German/Jewish/whatever descendance.

The ambiguity of Polish/Polish is exploited by Harry to falsely claim that Poles did this and that. Sawoniuk et al were Polish citizens, but they were not Poles(*). No Poles fought in the Ghetto Uprising, contrary to what Harry once blurted, they were all Jews. Morel, the criminal camp commander, was a Jew, not a Pole, and not even a 'Jewish Pole' which is a an impossible thing. Polish citizens were drafted to Polish Army regardless of their ethnicity, thus 'Polish ex-serviceman' bears no information of the man's ethnicity, exactly the same as 'born in Poland' doesn't. And so on.

Hope this helps.

(*) That is, there are no valid sources claiming that, and there are quite a lot of sources with strong clues that they were of Belorussian or Ukrainian ethnicity.

News / Victory in 'anti-Polish camps' campaign in US [170]

So, to resume:

There were no Poles in the 1 SS
There were no Poles in the 12 SS
The information quoted by Harry came from a report by a Soviet propaganda officer, a highly suspicious source, and this is the only source that claims contrary to the above.

Some Poles were recruited in 1944 to the so-called Polnische Wehrmacht, part of which was later transformed to Waffen SS.
Schama 202 was a police formation, not SS nor Hiwi, created by joining 2 Ukrainian formations, and later on recruiting some Poles.

Consequently, this alone is a strong indication that neither Obodzinski nor Sawoniuk were Poles. There are other clues, and there's no source claiming that they were. Except Harry.

There was one Polish camp before the war, which can be referred to as a concentration camp. The few camps after the war were run by the Soviets in the Soviet occupied Poland, so they are as Polish as the Nazi camps during the German occupation. Ergo, there were no 'Polish concentration camps', except according to Harry and some Western media.

Obliged for pointing out errors in my above statements. Not you, Harry, I need somebody sane.


Takes time to find another rag of misinformation, innit. Happy hunting, Harry, you need a goal in life.

News / Victory in 'anti-Polish camps' campaign in US [170]


Can't see anything.


Yeah, I was hacking the DNS server at that time. For half a day all London IPs showed as Polish. CIA went all mad, I had to change my name to nott and move two streets away.

FYI, Harry, all the info in Wiki has been inserted by some editor. Some of them, those editors, happened to live in Poland, imagine that..


Only you can't be bothered to show them.


Source: Harry.


Polish is an adjective, Harry boy. Polish vodka is not a Pole. Polish Jew is not a Pole, Josef Frantisek was a Polish serviceman, yet he was a Czech. Basic grammar, Harry. Adjective is not a noun. None of your sources says anything about him being a Pole. Or quote it, instead of trying to abuse the language.


I say Germans never recruited Poles to the SS, nor to Hiwis.


That was interesting, thanks. Now prove me I was lying.

This was not the SS, nor the Hiwis, Harry boy. So the argument is stupid anyway.


Yet another slander. 202 was formed by joining two Ukrainian formations. Harry. And you know the source I got it from.


And another slander.

I said: 'Germans did not recruit Poles to the SS, nor to Hiwis.' Schama 202 was neither SS, nor Hiwis, Harry, easy to check.


And another slander. All based on checkable lies. Admin? :)

UK, Ireland / The more subtle differences: Ireland/Britain v Poland [310]


Shouldn't be a problem. Any time I visit Poland there's at least one channel broadcasting it :) Something like Doctor Who in the UK.

UK, Ireland / The more subtle differences: Ireland/Britain v Poland [310]


I am not sure if this is a true originin of that gesture, but I remember Gustlik form Czterej Pancerni doing it and asking 'jedzie mi tu czolg?', after somebody said something unbelievable to him. That was the first time I saw it.

jedzie mi tu czołg? = can you see a tank here?

News / Victory in 'anti-Polish camps' campaign in US [170]

Find another explanation for this recurrent idiocy of Harry. I am at a loss.


I claim you have attention span like a dead golden fish. No contemporary media, Harry moron, referred to camps, as you claimed, because there was only one contemporarily referred to in the media, that in Bereza. The post-war camps were not referred to, it was illegal to do so in Poland under Soviet rule, and the West didn't give a damn.

Your claim was another wild harryism, exactly as your claim about Polish concentration camps after the war. They were Soviet camps, exactly as Auschwitz was a German camp. Poland was an occuped country, under Soviet rule, run by a Soviet clique of Soviet citizens, and everybody who heard about PRL knows perfectly well about that. Except you, that is. This needs another couple of braincells, sorry.

Which means, coming back to topic at last, that 'Polish concentration camps' as referred to by the Western media are about German camps in the occupied Poland, and the phrase is a slander exploiting Western ignorance about the European history.


Quote me, you so good at invoking sources.


His 'Polish mother' as according to 'some newspapers', Westerners ignorant of Polish realities just like you. He was using oteczestwo, as any Belorussian, and as no Pole would, and he was commonly known as a Belorussian. He joined a Belorussian Police under German control and prosecuted Poles.

Under Polish law he was a Polish citizen, just like other Belorussians, Ukrainians, Jews, Germans and whatever. So long in Poland, and still not unable to grasp this difference, you must be really stupid.

None of your sources claims that Sawoniuk or Obodzinski were Poles. Place of birth does not define a nationality, Harry, especially not in the pre-war Poland.


Looses argument, reverts to slander, Harry in full glory.


Right. Born in Poland. That's all they say. None of them says he was a Pole. No courts quoted by you have ever claimed that. No sources claim that.


Who was speaking of Gorale, Harry? I said Germans did not recruit Poles to SS, nor to Hiwis, Harry the confused. Gorale were not Poles to them.


ROTFL!! :)) The what??? I say Germans never recruited Poles to the SS, and you call me a liar because there was a formation of Poles in the German army in the war of 1914? Everybody bloody knows that, Harry the Revelator. Loads of Poles were the citizens of Germany then. You heard about WW1? Try to google it.

Seems we need a thread for the most stupid argument on the day.


To me those boys were Ukrainians. Schuma Batallion 202 was formed by joining two Ukrainian formations which took part in the German invasion of the USSR. Whatever some drunk Nazi called them is hardly relevant.


Germans did not recruit Poles to the SS, Harry, that's a historical fact. Polish citizen is not necessarily a Pole, Harry, that's a fact of life. Kebab is no good for brains, that's the conclusion.

Speaks volumes about the Admin that he tolerates you here.

News / Victory in 'anti-Polish camps' campaign in US [170]


No. Jewish Pole is an oxymoron. Jewish citizen of Poland is a Polish Jew. Pole is nationality, Jew is ethnicity and religion, and citizenship is just formal allegiance to a specific government. You can't be of two ethnicities at once, nor you can't become a Jew if not born from a Jewish mother, neither ethnically nor in terms of religion. A Jew can convert to Christianity, and be Jewish still, ethnically, but christianity doesn't define Polishness. A Jew can polonise, then he is a Pole with Jewish ancestry, not a Jewish Pole, nor a Polish Jew.

I made a mistake while quoting, hence the repetition.


You were referring to Polish camps. How many camps were there in Bereza, Harry?


Oh really. No doubt it was, but you can't be bothered. But you can be bothered to claim again that Sawoniuk was a Pole.


Harry logic, 2+2=22. Who was his mother, Harry, care to divulge? If you do not know, then be informed, that the Israeli immigration law only grants citizenship to Jews, which is people born from Jewish mother, which is in accordance with traditional Jewish law.


Sawoniuk was Belorussian, born in Russia, and this was proved in these forums already, which doesn't stop you from making an bigoted moron of yourself again.


Old tricks, Harry, blatant lies in hope nobody will check? None of these sources says he was a Pole.


None of those courts claim anything about their nationality, Harry. Lying and accusing others of lying doesn't change the facts, boy.

News / Victory in 'anti-Polish camps' campaign in US [170]


Exactly. British Muslim exactly as Polish Jew. Not the other way around.

There is Jewish American, though, because American 'nationality' includes any applying ethnicity. In Europe not so easy.

News / Victory in 'anti-Polish camps' campaign in US [170]


Contemporary media did not refer to them, oh mighty historian you. There was no such thing like Lambinowice in media those times. People who survived those camps were threatened with imprisonment if they dared to speak about them.


There's no such thing as a Jewish Pole, Harry. Jewishness is by birth from a Jewish mother. Check Jewish sources.


No more Sawoniuk then, Harry the Revisionist?

I bet you have plenty of links claiming that Obodzinski was a Pole. Obliged for posting. You may not know this little detail, but Germans never recruited Poles to the SS nor to Hiwi.

Life / Car's confrontation with a Wild Boar in Poland [37]


They do. They are supposed to, in Poland. That's the law. You just take your kill to the nearest vet.

Language / The Future of Polish Language [179]


Your sentence introduced a non-existent subject. The original subject was 'tourist', who 'appears to equate', and the sentence if perfectly valid, regardless of interruptions.


Thing is, there was no comparison in this sentence, there was equating. Equating of sprinkling with speaking, by a tourist. All legit.

Language / The Future of Polish Language [179]


en.wiktionary.org/wiki/noone

sorry... :)

thing is, that this spelling hurts my eyes, that's why I cared to point it out at all in this chat on correctness.

And no, the Brits don't spell it 'to day', unless as in 'day to day'. The current day is 'today'.

You missed my point, though. Even if I don't agree with AJ's bitching about equating, the proper ending of that sentence should be 'no(person) is'. Unless it was a joke beyond the reach of my sense of humour...

edit:


I think so. People just don't care, in their majority, and they are fully entitled to this attitude. Don't expect everybody to be a zealot.

And, mind it, I don't condemn your zeal. Exceptionally, as this one doesn't show any tendency to kill people. Or heaven't shown yet.

Edit:
In fact, I am with you in this. I back you up. There should be more people preaching the love of language. Verily.

Language / The Future of Polish Language [179]


Rubbish. I mean, what they say is rubbish, if they say it.

Let's face it though - few people actually care about the quality of their language, provided they're understood most of the time. And it doesn't matter if they speak their native language or a foreign one, for them it's just a tool. And just as there are craftsmen who love their tools, most of them just have them and use them. No actual reason to get overexcited.

Language / The Future of Polish Language [179]


AJ, you're just being difficult :)

Just admit the lust of result beclouded your usual whatever, and it's settled. Your imaginary subject has nothing to do with this sentence.


Nobody pretends? :)

Or no one pretends....

:)

Language / The Future of Polish Language [179]


Appreciated :) although you'd change your opinion if you heard me speaking...


Ah, now I see what you mean. But it's a complex sentence. 'People I've met will remain in my memory', no problem.


And I am with you in this expectation. But then we'll end up in you know what..

Regardless: 'the Dutch equate sprinkling with speaking' seems Ok to me. I had to check:
idioms.thefreedictionary.com/equate+with]

Language / The Future of Polish Language [179]


wsu.edu/~brians/errors/infact.html

:) sorry, AJ, your English looks impressive, regardless. IMO, from my POV.

Although I don't really get that bitching about tenses...


Nobody is ever 'whining', innit :) I'd happily join you in the bemoaning thing, same goes for Polish, standards are falling. Or changing...

What makes you a whiner, though, is blaming the foreigners rather, than your own ilk. The foreigners attack you with besmirched English, you counter them with English pure and resounding, and see the jaws dropping low, knees bending themselves on their own, and eyes begging for more in mute appeal. That's the way.

After some practice, you may grow balls big enough to speak that English to your countrymen... :)

Thing is, that perfect English of yours is an extremely elusive beast. It happens to me to listen to some English speaker with utter awe and admiration, but this reaction is based on my foreigner's subjective conjecture only. How do I know that I admire the really worthy ones?

Language / The Future of Polish Language [179]


And so would I. What I'd call basic English retains Perfect and Continuous tenses. It's not much of a problem, though, the concepts are fairly easy to grasp, and the construction is not really difficult either.

Language / The Future of Polish Language [179]


yy... yes....


yyy... wotcha got on yer mind, Lyzko?


Well, that's in the job description, man :) you want your language to rule the waves, you got to adjust it to different weathers.

I do believe that for a non-native speaker to fully master all the intricacies and hidden flavours of any language is a task for life. Which eventually makes him a native speaker, for all intents and purposes. You can't achieve the level of consummate proficiency you hereby express such a burning desire for without living the language on a daily basis, innit.

So, first thing, this is not a task for foreigners, and, second thing, you should point your accusing finger at your fellow countrymen, first of all, with their flippant attitude to the Sonority. From the foreigners' point of view it's fcking annoying when they want to learn proper super-duper high class impeccable shining English, so they ask who's the virtuoso, and the answer is 'well, actually...' Unless you know the answer, then I'll bark it off from under the bench. Although I strongly suspect that this knowledge is for the initiates of the Seventh Inner Circle only.

On a side note, this very sonority you cherish so much is the main reason for English floating so freely all over the articulation space. Vowels are whimsical like a basketful of kittens, while consonants hold fast to their assigned positions.

To get closer to the actual gist of your complaint... if the language is so easy to simplify without actually loosing much of its correctness, then it's not the fault of non-native speakers, is it.

Oh well. Just between us, I'd appreciate it muchly if you pointed out my errors in the above... just don't tell me that 'flavour' is to be spelled without the 'u' :)

Eh, Lyzko, you are just whining for the sake of it, aren't you? :)

Edit:


:)

Language / The Future of Polish Language [179]


That's the whole point. Basic English is a subset of English, basic Polish is impossible.


Imagination is the main problem here. Language is about communicating information, and not creating opportunities for fantastic interpretations. If a sentence gives you a full palette of possible interpretations, it's not a language, it misses the point entirely. It's not valid, simply speaking, doesn't belong to the language.

And don't tell me again that communication is possible anyway. You can communicate with gestures, grunts and pictures, but this is not a language.

News / Independence Blood Bath on Polish roads over the long weekend. [69]


Not my problem.


Jesus Christ, I didn't mention whole a lot of things, HB, I didn't take much effort to be precise in descriptions neitherl, although 'no speeding' was there, if you care to check. You choose to treat it as a fantasy, it's your choice. Reality is what you're able to see, suit yourself.


26 years of driving experience and can't believe in skidding on sand. Tell you what, there was no sand, in fact. There was no bend, and no bus stop. The road was straight, and I hit a mother with a toddler on a pedestrian crossing while jumping through on red light, and I left them dying. I was too drunk to even call the ambulance. Happy now? Seems a believable story from a Pole, innit?

News / Independence Blood Bath on Polish roads over the long weekend. [69]

That too, yes. And now I am off to bed. Have fun, people :)

good dreams to everybody.

News / Independence Blood Bath on Polish roads over the long weekend. [69]


No, I don't care. Educating you is not my priority.


And you never complained about Polish roads for all those 26 years. You drive a forklift, or what?


No, I happened to have left the broom at home this time, exceptionally. The car was a wreck, I didn't care to carry the broom 3 kilometers to do somebody else's job. Just like I didn't care to remove that ice with a toothpick.


Furthermore, you have no idea what the situation was, so try to avoid suggesting that I am lying.


Right. Let it be noted that I never said that.


Oh really. And you base your claim on what, exactly?


So what speed would you advise then?


No, hairball, all is true. I drive while drunk, I carry a Beretta and a Glock, and I have a shotgun on the back seat. Do be a good citizen, you know the number.


He was an authority, Taylor. By the name of Religa. And I happened to meet him, so 'knowing' was not much of a stretch, actually.

News / Independence Blood Bath on Polish roads over the long weekend. [69]


Actually I knew a surgeon who benefited from a shot before the operation... He took 50 to 100g, depending on the day.

That's anecdotal, but if you have no other arguments, Taylor...

News / Independence Blood Bath on Polish roads over the long weekend. [69]


Too much for you to read the whole sentence, obviously.


You don't listen to good advices, do you...

News / Independence Blood Bath on Polish roads over the long weekend. [69]


Therefore a Pole who is driving with 0.4 g/l is considered a drunk driver, while a German is not. Simplistic comparisons are misleading.

News / Independence Blood Bath on Polish roads over the long weekend. [69]

Ireland 7.8 .... 11 .... 5.7
Poland 14.7 .... 28 .... 23.5

Estonia 15.2 .... 38.9 ... 17.5
Romania 12.7 ... 71.1 ...39.8
Slovakia 15.1 ... 43.9 ... 21.5

the three last countries have zero tolerance for drunk driving

Conclusions?

News / Independence Blood Bath on Polish roads over the long weekend. [69]


Poland's legal limit 0.2g/l
Ireland's legal limit 0.8 g/l

Conclusions?

News / Independence Blood Bath on Polish roads over the long weekend. [69]


Make some research before making a clown of yourself. Not that I insist.


Well, I don't drive. I am not sure this is good enough excuse to you.

You should report me, you know? And I am for private gun ownership, so you can tell them I carry illegal gun as well. Two, actually, why restrict yourself so severely.

News / Independence Blood Bath on Polish roads over the long weekend. [69]


Except that small amounts of alcohol can actually increase both your sensory processing and reaction time. This is not widely propagated, as it is a dangerous information and goes against the general policy.

Yet I am not arguing that, I am for a reasonable legislation strictly enforced, which is not the case in Poland.


And it does, after you end up against a tree. You don't know what you're talking about. On a bright summer day I was driving to work as usual, not speeding, and I skidded on a safe bend, because some idiot spilled sand on the tarmac and nobody cared to sweep it off. I just managed to turn the wheels sideways, so I didn't jump over the kerb onto the bus stop full of people. I called them maintenance pricks, yet the sand was still there until heavy rain two days later.

On a 'clear black road' I saw the traffic light some 150 meters ahead, so I slowed down, not being sure if I will get the proper timing. Only the car didn't listen, I slid through on the red, because this particular stretch of the whole 400km was covered with thin ice. Now tell me I should've driven this distance at 20km per hour.


Would you like to argue that Poles suddenly drank 130% more vodka than the previous year?