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Posts by Wiedzmin_fan  

Joined: 31 May 2010 / Male ♂
Last Post: 15 Jun 2011
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Posts: 79

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Wiedzmin_fan   
15 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

Would you provide a link where I posted this video?

Sorry, I am not going to look (too much trouble). Perhaps, you can click on "my posts" in your menu and check yourself? You posted two videos, one is this one, the other was from sorochin'ska yarmarka IIRC. It was most likely in the society/culture section, because you talked about cultural/ethnic music promotion and revival. I remembered it because the russian accent in this one was just too funny ;)

a few examples from any of these "many fields"

IT. Engineering. Heavy industry. Whatever is not history/law/art/PR/etc.
Are you not aware of this problem yourself?
Wiedzmin_fan   
14 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

These languages are different and some people may believe these are similar to each other.

I see what you mean. When I say "one language" I mean it in the sense that the same people (the same family even!) use both to communicate in the same space, at the same time, and sometimes even switch/interchange between the two, mixing parts of sentences even. The grammar is similar, part of the vocabulary is overlapping, another part of vocabulary is just more used in one language than the other (but yes, there's a non-overlapping part too). I agree that technically it's two different languages. But it doesn't fell like it ;) I speak from experience, as I speak primarily English now. There's no comparison.
Wiedzmin_fan   
14 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

It looks like you have cousins all over Ukraine and beyond and all of them live in villages

Let me set you straight right here. I think my family is very typical of Ukraine, so maybe others will learn from this too.

My family is very large, because it comes from the rural central Ukraine, and back in the day having 10+ children was not out of the ordinary. So my grandparents had lots of siblings. That makes for a TON of third cousins. Some of that generation (having won the war against Hitler) got their careers going, "moved up" in life, settled in the cities and became "russified" (primarily for career purposes - you had to travel, you sometimes had to work in other parts of the country as far as Far East, etc.). Some stayed in selo (I don't want to say "village" here, because the concept of "selo" is quite unique to Ukraine - it's doesn't really mean a village as such, it means rural life in general). The same happened to the next generation (uncles and aunts) - some stayed in selo (remained primarily Ukrainian speaking) and some moved to cities (became Russian speaking). That's my second cousins. So as a result, you have a huge family in different degrees of language use - from Ukrainian only (like my cousin who was living in selo until she was admitted to a prestigious program in Kiev) to Russian only (like my other cousin from Zapirizhya whose grandparents started living in the city, so she was a lot more "russified", and didn't even take Ukrainian in school). Yet, all those children would go back to "selo" every summer and spend time with relatives and communicate with no problems, seamlessly. And yes, and some immigrated to the states ;) but that's a different story.

When you hate on "non-authentic" Ukrainians, you hate on people like that. So don't be surprised if they don't like you back ;)
Wiedzmin_fan   
14 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

"u selo"? What language is it?

Yes, Nathan, I was making fun of their pronunciation. They were making fun of mine, so I am entitled to poke back at them a little. I could never make the "v" sound like "u". It was always coming out like "fff seli" when I tried to say it. I make no secret that am Russian speaking ;)

I listened to a Ukrainian MP who was born in the central Ukraine (Zaporizhya) in 1960s. His parents had real difficulty in finding a Ukrainian school. They had to move in order to enrol their son in a school where he could be taught in Ukrainian.

Ukrainian language and literature were required subjects - at least, on my memory (late 70s, and 80s). As a matter of fact, half of my family lives in Zaporizhya, so I know it for sure. I have a cousin whose father was ethnic Russian, and she was bragging about being able to wiggle out of Ukrainians lessons altogether (while the rest of the kids coudn't) - but she had to commute to the all-Russian school as a result. I call shenanigans, unless you mean all-ukrainian school, like my other cousin attended - then you had to live in "selo".[/quote]

Being born in Lviv, which is a heart of Ukrainian re-birth, we had compulsory Russian language and Russian literature classes since grade 3 (10 years kids) as separate subjects from Foreign language or literature.

And what would be the problem with that? Poor you, had to learn Russian in the Soviet Union and another foreign language on top of that, just like everybody else. Also, you actually lived in Ukraine, studied Russian and you *still* couldn't recognize a Russian accent by ear in that video? What's going on? ;)

why don't you speak Ukrainian?

Why would I speak it? I think I explained it pretty clearly. I am perfectly content to speak Russian, while others speak Ukrainian back. Works great for me. This way neither of us has a ridiculous accent (which you couldn't hear, ha-ha! I'll poke fun at you for that forever ;) .

I suppose if my family haven't moved overseas some 20 years ago, I may have made more of an effort to "polish" (haha, get it?) my Ukrainian.

I recommend you move to Ukraine, too - this way you'll learn to recognize "Russian" Ukrainians by their accents ;)
Wiedzmin_fan   
14 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

the first song is a mix (or rather just really "bad", Russified, Ukrainian), in the second video he switches depending on whom he is addressing (he/she brought in relatives from selo to show off, and his mamo ordered the most expensive item on the menu).

that guy was a major star a few years ago. I think he even represented Ukraine at Eurovision.
Wiedzmin_fan   
14 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

Hilarious!

Yes, it is, isn't it?
"Znaesh, chyo Alenushka plachet? U neyo brat - kozel, ponimaesh'?" - he has a way with words! ;)

Forgot to add this (a shining example of UkrRussian), too:
youtube.com/watch?v=lpJ44NV6m-E
and
youtube.com/watch?v=2cdg-7akt60
Wiedzmin_fan   
14 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

Do you see a chance of nationwide revival of Ukrainian language?

It's definitely possible. There's definitely a push for it (and it's very politicized).

Nowadays, the selo (rural areas) and the cultural elite (writers, actors, historians) are Ukrainian-speaking. But a huge sector in the middle, the city population, the middle-class, the professionals, are all primarily Russian speaking. There's no terminology in Ukrainian for many modern professional fields. It's not easy.

Here's an illustration:
youtube.com/watch?v=k-ecwzb-yO0
edit (explanation, for non Russian/Ukrainian speakers): a TV announcer is criticizing (in Russian) the wording of the Ukrainian text he is about to read. But the final product (the program that the viewers will see) is all in Ukrainian. So it's layered - the Ukrainian is being supported/worked around in Russian. Does that make sense?
Wiedzmin_fan   
14 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

To tell you the truth, a lot of young people thought it was a bother (extra classes in school!). You could get out of it ONLY if one of your parents wasn't an ethnic Ukrainian.

I don't think it was done on purpose though. In selo, all subjects (like math, history etc.) were often taught in Ukrainian (because most Russian-speaking teachers didn't want to live in selo). They also had quotas (like affirmative action) for Ukrainian speaking Ukrainians at universities. For example, one of my cousins from selo was admitted into a prestigious university in part because she was taking all entrance exams in Ukrainian instead of Russian. She did it with no prep courses and no tutors (impossible feat for a Russian speaking city-educated kid).
Wiedzmin_fan   
14 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

Pencil in Ukrainian = Olivets
Pencil in Russian = Karandash

Pocket in Ukrainian - Kishenya
Pocket in Russian = Karman

Karman and Karandash are turkic words (later additions to Russian that replaced slavic equivalents)

Of course in Ukr = Zvychajno
Of course in Rus = Kanyechno

in Russian there's CHERE-zvychajno (out of the ordinary/ unusual etc. - not "on course", so the meaning is still there)
also, the verb chajat' (to will/to plan) is still used.

Hide in Ukr = Hovatysya
Hide in Rus = Pryatsya

in Russian, ZA-hovat'sya is used (complete/finished action, as opposed to pryatat' - which means action in the process, unfinished).

So, I am sorry - but your examples don't prove anything.

But I may be the wrong person to judge. I am an ethnic Ukrainian who is a Russian speaker, with relatives who speak Ukrainian, so I have exposure to both. To me, it's one language with (slightly) different sets of vocabulary (for example, Ukrainian words may seem old-fashioned if used in a Russian phrase, though they will still be understood) and different pronunciation. Actually, differences in pronunciation are more tricky IMHO and they prevent me from speaking Ukrainian freely. I have a funny Russian accent that relatives make fun of ;) so I am too embarrassed to even try. So I just speak Russian to them, they speak Ukrainian back. And by relatives I mean grandmothers and distant cousins who still live "u selo". Once people move to a city, they start speaking Russian usually. And I am not even taking about eastern Ukraine - they have their own, completely fused UkrRussian dialect.
Wiedzmin_fan   
13 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

and then this? more Polish or more Russian?

That video again, ARRRGH! - you reposted the same video that Nathan (our "shanovni", supposedly authentic, zapadenski, anti-russian Ukrainian) shared a while ago. Can't you HEAR it's the Russians singing, not Ukrainians???? Their accent is ATROCIOUS. They are basically singing in Russian (especially since the languages are so similar, I guess it's difficult for them to say exact same words, but with Ukrainian pronunciation). Even this (Russian) girl-band sings it better (more correctly):

Here's a "real" Ukrainian hlopec singing (on Russian TV, he won some American idol -type of contest I think)

Or, if you want a folk song:
..

The same song by Polish guys:



(Poles) I would say, if it wasn't for W/V mixing up with L, they have a Russian accent in their Ukrainian.

I doubt if Lukashenko can speak belarussian properly.

He can. There are rumors that his father was a gypsy(kotlyar), but Bat'ka was born and bred in rural Belarus. He is the real deal.
Wiedzmin_fan   
13 Jun 2011
Language / Ukrainian language similar to Polish? [236]

Nobody, you are a Ukrainian speaker? My butt explodes laughing.

Nathan, you are not a Ukrainian speaker either. You've once posted what you claimed was a video of Ukrainian folk music, but it was sung by the Russians with horrible Russian accent. So, please just stop.

For the record - I am an ethnic Ukrainian (primarily Russian speaking, but I can speak Ukrainian too... I just prefer to use Russian as does most of my family... except some relatives who still live "v selo").

I noticed that in Dnipropetrovsk nobody speaks ukrainian.The same is true for Kharkiv,Lugansk and Crimea.I doubt if some Ukrainians in these regions can actually read and understand ukrainian.

Ahem. They can. I am one of those Ukrainians (except I live overseas nowadays!) - There were mandatory lessons of Ukrainian language and literature in all Ukrainian schools in the Soviet times, and of course it's pushed a lot more now, so make no mistake - everyone knows it. They just find it easier to speak in Russian.
Wiedzmin_fan   
31 May 2011
Genealogy / Why are some Polish people dark complected, and others very light [498]

Blond map of Europe:
strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/blond_hair_map1.jpg

European haplogroups:
eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

Its just mixing with Russians, and other slavic neighbors who have darker hair... thats all it is. Its not because of mongols raping poles, or russian soldiers raping polish women...

Imho, (ethnic) Russians have a lot of blondes. It's hard to compare (does anyone have any reliable data?), but I would say about the same percentage of the population is blonde. For example, here are some pictures of ordinary Russians: olya-ivanova.livejournal.com/463895.html - if you ignore the poverty (it's a poor rural area) and the general mess, they look exactly like Poles.
Wiedzmin_fan   
16 May 2011
News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

you as Ukranian

He is not a real Ukrainian. He posted a couple of "ukrainian" folk-inspired videos for discussion a while ago, and couldn't even tell that the second was done by the Russians, with atrocious Ukrainian accents. So funny!
Wiedzmin_fan   
16 May 2011
News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

Natural resources are a curse for Russia. There will be no significant economic and political development as long as there's an easier way out (easy money via selling of natural resources) available.
Wiedzmin_fan   
12 May 2011
History / Polish and Russian soul anno 1914 and today [45]

outsider of what?? of Russian language? very much doubt it

Stalin's broken and heavily accented Russian is not notorious in Poland? Stalin was an outsider (and an enemy) of Russian ethnos.
Wiedzmin_fan   
11 May 2011
History / Polish and Russian soul anno 1914 and today [45]

gumishu

still you point out Stalin not being Russian as if if it was somebody else in his place (an ethnic Russian) the policies of the Soviet Union towards Poland and Polish people would have been much different

It is possible that they wouldn't have been. However, we can't let the debate about the Polish and Russian "souls" be framed by the words of an outsider.
Wiedzmin_fan   
11 May 2011
History / Polish and Russian soul anno 1914 and today [45]

yeah sure he imposed Georgian imperial policies on poor Russians - everybody had to learn Goergian or end up in a GULAG

he didn't - but you are quoting him to demonstrate "Russian distrust of Poles".
Wiedzmin_fan   
11 May 2011
History / Polish and Russian soul anno 1914 and today [45]

Stalin's famous statement "The introduction of communism in Poland would be similar to the imposition of the saddle on a cow" demonstrates a continuation of justifiable Russian distrust of Poles.

except Stalin wasn't Russian.
Wiedzmin_fan   
10 May 2011
Genealogy / Do you think all Slavs are white? [178]

it is very likely that any Chinese, Malay, Iranian or Swede is genetically closer to any given African than that African is to any of his fellow Africans.

except for that neanderthal DNA:
online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703686304575228380902037988.html
non-africans trace up to 4% of their genome from neanderthals

also, really - africans are further apart from each other than from the non-africans? sounds wrong (mathematically speaking).
Wiedzmin_fan   
7 May 2011
Genealogy / Do you think all Slavs are white? [178]

This is a very fascinating topic (though I still don't agree with the underlying "white-nonwhite" dichotomy - it makes no sense at all).

Here's a genetic analysis chart: (from polishgenes.blogspot.com)

Notice how close are the Poles to Belarussians and to central Russians. And the northern Russians have a big chunk of Finnish genes (which explains the blondes).

Who cares what "white" even means. We are what we are. Deal with it!
Wiedzmin_fan   
7 May 2011
Genealogy / Do you think all Slavs are white? [178]

well, it's okay to talk about phenotypes and genetic makeup. and about cultures.

but it's not OK to talk about the "white" thing. it's a social construct that is used for "othering", kinda like "us" vs. "them". not cool.
Wiedzmin_fan   
7 May 2011
Genealogy / Do you think all Slavs are white? [178]

Russians are not white. Russians are Russian. Same goes for Ukrainians. I've never heard a discussion in Russia or Ukraine framed in these terms. But they/we can complain endlessly about Jewish/Armenian/Churki/Dagi and so on nationalities. Also, "black" doesn't even mean African (it means Caucasian). So none of your black/white terminology applies to them.

And what kind of discussion is this? Only racists talk about about things like that.

Anyway, if you wanted to know about the skin colour - it differs. Some people are pasty/pale, and some are more "smuglye" (darker). The majority of Russians have light grey (not blue, blue colour is rare and considered beautiful) eyes and kind of mousy light brown hair (the colour is called "rusyi", as in "russian/rus hair colour" ). Ukrainians have about the same skin, and they have slightly more green and brown eyed people. Also, their hair is slightly darker. And their beauties are required to be "chornobriva" (bushy dark eyebrows, heheheh!).

here's the "blond" map of Europe:

If you were asking about genetic makeup, here are some references:

the pure Russian type descends from ancient Vikings

Dude, if you are talking about Ryuriki/Varyagi, there weren't that many of them to make a (genetic) difference. Culturally - yes, they pretty much founded Russia. Linguistically, too (I recently learned that there are many russian words that are actually norsk in origin, like "lavka", or "lar'", or "knut"... so weird... ) But other than that? Nope.