News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

When something does not easily burn it gives off a lot of smoke. Also, keep in mind, it is difficult to distinguish exactly what color the smoke is or is not on the video, due to the recording quality. However, it is evident there is much smoky haze. But you cannot discount the eyewitness statements.

Velund, here, in Russian:
rian.ru/video/20100411/220738363.html

Same, in English:
en.rian.ru/video/20100412/158542562.html

Also, notice that at 32 sec, immediately after the word "ubijat" the sirens turn on...
youtube.com/watch?v=OX4bO0Op0Tw&feature=related

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Smoke--from the burning wreckage.

The plane was at the same airport only a day earlier:
poranny.pl/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100412/KATASTROFA_PREZYDENT/16985819

"I was already in the Katyn forest when the plane crashed, and the visibility was perfect, the sun was shining."
guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/11/poland-president-plane-crash-kaczynski

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

You're still stuck on the fog, lol! Hopeless...

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Really. Then why the hell has it been turned over to them--it was stated earlier that Russia doesn't even have the capability to read this black box. BS.


You have provided little more than convenient speculations.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Won't be able to confirm traffic control exchanges or whether or not the pilots indicated instrument failure--in other words, NOT a significant amount.


You know that for a fact? How?


Notice that all versions, regardles of enhancements, are all identical to one another.


Incorrect. This box did not have that capability, and was therefore not constructed to the standards of the other black boxes and, as such, is not designed to withstand severe impact.




delphiandomine:
en.rian.ru/video/20100412/158542562.html

There are more than enough reasons for doubt.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

Tusk is NOT Kaczynski's man... where do you get your information from? They from 2 different parties and Tusk OPENLY HATED Kaczynski!
Poland didn't receive the third black box from Russia until 2 weeks after the crash... this black box does not contain any voice recordings, only flight parameter such as altitude, speed, etc.

Meanwhile, the amateur shooting video has been deemed authentic by video analysts from Poland's Central Criminology lab:

Also, see the last link in post #676--video of witnesses stating that there was no fog and the plane was experiencing engine trouble.

Here is the digitally enhanced version of the video:

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

This fifth voice had no bearing on the crash, and Klich knew of this voice early on and only from black box transcripts:
wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80269,7858235,E__Klich__Glos_piatej_osoby_pojawil_sie_dlugo_przed.html
tvn24.pl/12690,1655478,0,1,wiadomo-kto-wszedl-do-kokpitu,wiadomosc.html

Meanwhile, Tusk has outright said that he cannot and will not do anything to enable Poland to actively participate in the investigation or have direct access to evidence:

wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,119674,title,Nie-moge-i-nie-chce-wplywac-na-sledztwo,wid,12246120,wiadomosc_prasa.html

This will give you a clearer picture of why any information put out from the Russian side should be considered highly suspect and manipulative:
youtube.com/watch?v=O_vsaPEajh0

Meanwhile, the crash site is still not secured:
wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,119674,title,Milicja-czuwa-ale-i-tak-kazdy-wchodzi-na-miejsce-katastrofy,wid,12246174,wiadomosc.html

As things stand, months will likely pass before Poland receives the black boxes:
rp.pl/artykul/460202,472605_Zla_jakosc_nagran_opoznia_sledztwo.html

Is that enough info for you, delphiandomine? Or can you not draw your own conclusions?

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

Putin-Tusk alliance.


Odd? Take a look at this:

The first thundered loudly that at his own request we put in the role of supplicant , and we at the mercy of the Russians . Edmund Klich as saying that after the crash of the Tu- 154, in Russia there was great chaos . It took only two weeks to Head of the State Commission on Aircraft Accident Investigation radically changed his mind. It may not say enough about the Russians for organizing the work and progress in the investigation . Or so the Russians themselves . With journalists Klich not talking .

This is the guy who had the harshest words yet for this farce of an investigation; now he's done a complete 180.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

Mediawatch:
Have a look at this:
CBC - The Passionate Eye - The Putin System

One-Third of Russian Militiamen Psychopaths or Alcoholics, Expert Says

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

That couldn't be further from the truth. There's no shortage of misinformation here.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rzeczpospolita_(newspaper)

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

Aren't you presumptious--who are you to day what my interests are? I'm simply stating the facts. The problem you have with that is...?

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

A close-up photo of one of the engine turbines, showing little damage to the blades:

polskaweb.eu/news-galerie/301.html#category

Wouldn't the turbines be expected to have more substantial damage than this, if the engines were operating at full capacity at the time of impact?

An intriguing article, if anyone here can read German:

polskaweb.eu/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3306&pop=1&page=0&Itemid=1021


According to reports, no.

The testimony of the crew who tried to land in Smolensk just before the Tu- 154, can be very important

- We have applied for legal aid to the Russian side of hearing all the witnesses who can help explain the crash of the presidential plane , including the crew of the aircraft Il- 76 - it says " Rom " Mateusz Martyniuk , spokesman for the Prosecutor General's Office in Poland.

A report published yesterday in the Polish daily "Rzeczpospolita" indicates there is no sign that Polish medical examiners were even present during the autopsies (only signed by a Russian medical examiner), and that autopsy protocols weren't followed by the Russian medical examiner. (If you can't read Polish, try translating the page with LiveSearch; it'll butcher the translation, but you'll get the gist of it).

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Except that it appears to completely contradict the "official" Russian version of thick fog and no technical issues, which Russia has been adamantly sticking to.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Because you're not allowed to tell the truth around here.


There is a video (quite difficult to find) of eyewitnesses stating there was little/no fog at the time of the crash and that there were strange sounds coming from the plane's engines, like they were stalling or cutting off. Here: en.rian.ru/video/20100412/158542562.html

Also, read this: huffingtonpost.com/max-kolonko/the-mystery-of-polands-pr_b_ 551223.html

I am not a big fan of the source, but I'm posting it here because this part is precisely what's being reported in Poland:

"According to the largest Polish opinionated daily Rzeczpospolita, Polish Prosecutor General, Andrzej Seremeta, stated that Polish investigators would obtain from Russian authorities "transcripts of cockpit voice recorders, not the voice recorders itself".

This raised eyebrows of some US aviation experts."

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Poland will be lucky to have them within a year:

While simultaneously in Poland is under investigation by the Military District Prosecutor's Office in Warsaw and works committee accident investigation , the Polish side does not have all the evidence . Polish prosecutors could participate in some activities of the Russian prosecutor's office , for example . Hearings of witnesses , and Colonel Edmund Klich (until recently head of the Polish State Commission on Aircraft Accident Investigation ) is accredited by the Russian commission investigating the disaster. So they have the knowledge, but do not have the source materials .

But, hey, what the hell--that's just fine with everyone here! Noooo, no problems whatsoever, none. Nope, nothing suspicious here--move on. It's all "paranoia"; Russia is Poland's friend--how dare anyone think any different? Give me a bloody break...

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

It's clearly stated as 8 km. That's not up for debate.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]




I absolutely agree with those points. However, gas and patriot missiles are an entirely different matter. For instance, just take a look at what's going on in the Ukraine. I predict Poland may have similar troubles ahead.

News / RUSSIA TO MAKE PUBLIC THE KATYN FILES... [274]


Actually, it was Gorbachev:


In a way?
telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/6480227/Russia-simulates-nuclear-attack-on-Poland.html

News / RUSSIA TO MAKE PUBLIC THE KATYN FILES... [274]


Russia simulating an invasion on Polish soil last September clearly showed it's full of sh*t concerning misty-eyed "reconciliations". Am I the only one who's up to date on events?


It wasn't Putin, FYI, it was Gorbachev. Does "glasnost" ring a bell?


Gee, I thought Gorby was light years ahead of his time.


Ummm, possibly sucking up to get a landmark gas deal signed?

News / RUSSIA TO MAKE PUBLIC THE KATYN FILES... [274]


More? If The Russian government insists on promoting their so-called "friendship" and "goodwill", how about they start putting their money where their mouth is--otherwise shut up. Posturing doesn't cut it. That's what's expected of any nation that commands respect.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

I'd download that video though just in case. RT has been yanking anything that would raise suspicion, including the original interview with the boys (the one without the commandos standing right behind them).

News / RUSSIA TO MAKE PUBLIC THE KATYN FILES... [274]

No, it's not, but it's also not any more principled.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Yep, that's precisely why it grabbed my attention. That visibility seems to be confirmed on another video, if you look closely. It's the one with the boys and their camera. Along with attendees at the time. I have an article somewhere in Polish, quoting an official or a reporter (can't remember) that skies were sunny and blue.


So, I take it you're for misinformation and coverups?


Odd thing is, there was no explosion and the plane itself didn't burn. Only a couple of small fires away from the plane. At least 21 bodies were identified with DNA.

News / RUSSIA TO MAKE PUBLIC THE KATYN FILES... [274]


Talking about the government--keep up.

News / RUSSIA TO MAKE PUBLIC THE KATYN FILES... [274]


That is such BS. It's alive and thriving.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


Well, not all governments, but certainly Russia would be one of them. Poland is wedged in a tough spot.

News / RUSSIA TO MAKE PUBLIC THE KATYN FILES... [274]

Of course not, we like to keep our rose-colored glasses on.

News / RUSSIA TO MAKE PUBLIC THE KATYN FILES... [274]


I know it's cancelled, but the decision for such to begin with certainly says a lot about the Communist mentality pervasive in your country's government.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]


An objective, expert examination of the plane's remnants would have been a good start, which is probably too late, as Russia has had plenty of time to cover its tracks.

News / RUSSIA TO MAKE PUBLIC THE KATYN FILES... [274]


His praising? It certainly goes well beyond that.
themoscowtimes.com/news/article/stalin-billboards-for-victory-day/400091.html