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Posts by convex  

Joined: 25 Nov 2009 / Male ♂ 		Last Post: 28 Nov 2011
Threads: Total: 20 / Live: 15 / Archived: 5
Posts: Total: 3,928 / Live: 3,896 / Archived: 32 		From: Wroclaw
Speaks Polish?: un poco...wait
Interests: aviation

Displayed posts: 3911 / page 4 of 131
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convex   
4 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

Maybe after seeing how bad the weather was , and how the tower was communicting with a pilot , the lack of air pressure data from Meteo ( Polish and Russian ), how bad equipped the aerodrome was ?

Weather and pressure was given, page 212.

So, why were they soooo far off to the left again? Why weren't they told about it?

Have a read through the report, the Yak and the Il had the same problem.

And how come they said about him being drunk, very shocking for me . That`s why 70 % of Polish people don`t think we have got all the evidences . So we are waiting .I have heard that USA experts gathered more information, unknown for Polish side , because the were decoding one of black boxes, which was USA made and sent to them by Russians .

They said that he had alcohol in his body. I thought it wasn't important.

How can they say general Blasik was putting on pressure with no evidence? All they can say is that he was in the cockpit, no more. Yet they said that 'obviously' his presence in the cockpit would put pressure on the situation. They have no right to do this.

Sure they do, he had absolutely no reason at all to be there. None. The simple presence of a superior standing behind you is pressure whether you believe it or not. That's why you don't see CEOs of airlines riding in jump seats. It's ridiculous, and completely unprofessional. Basic psychology.

The witness specifically heard gun shots right beside where the plane was.

Right... But uh, if they were executing survivors, wouldn't the Russians have made sure that video never saw the day of light after such an elaborate plot? Doctoring the CVR and FDR, falsifying the controller recordings, autopsy results...and shooting the survivors... and then they let some guy with a camera phone wander off?
convex   
3 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

Reason: protecting Prime Minister and President at the same time would be difficult? And, this is logistical reason for two seperate ceremonies? Russia wasn't enough big company that could accept them both at the same time? PM could be just another among 96 people.

Yea, I don't buy that either. They both managed to show up in Brussels at the same time...
convex   
3 Aug 2011
USA, Canada / Why are Polish restaurants not successful in the USA? [698]

Those dishes listed sound delightful but I suspect the majority of Poles have never tried them nor know anyone who knows how to prepare them well.

The same could be said about plenty of cuisines. French comes to mind...
convex   
3 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

I'd argue that was the first factor that ultimately caused the crash. No backup plan. Personally, if I have a meeting somewhere and want to fly there, the first thing I do is buy a commercial ticket. That's my get out of jail free card should there be a problem with weather or a mechanical issue. No pressure.
convex   
3 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

Why did he flirt with the trees, delph? Does that suggest experience to you?

It suggest that the PAF was more focused on completing the mission than completing the mission safely.

Why did the YAK flirt with the trees?

Convex, I'd consider it as a hidden deathwish ;)

I don't believe they knew their true altitude, simple

You don't believe the CVR, fair enough. And yea, it's a deathwish just like the driver of the car in the earlier example. I'm reminded of driving along in the countryside and having people pass around blind corners. It happens all the time, people die, I don't think they wanted to die.
convex   
3 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

Then why wasn't it classed as a suicide mission? Too painful or didn't address the facts?

If you get into an accident by speeding up to get through a yellow light, would you consider that a suicide mission?

Exactly! I don't want to embrace wild conspiracies either but when two official sources produce such conflicting accounts, who can we go with? Yourself and Sky, as aviators, should easily be able to reach a definitive conclusion. However, yourselves, like the rest of us, have just been fed with what some want us to hear.

Goes back to trusting the CVR and the witnesses, if you don't, then there's no reason to even discuss the technicalities. For me, the reports definitely support CFIT. It only confirms what most people thought from the get go. It's a common reason for accidents.
convex   
3 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

Convex, he wouldn't navigate into the ground. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

People cheat all the time. It's not the first time, and surely not the last time.

Were you in the plane, convex? Then how do you know?

I read the transcripts and I'm not a conspiracy theorist. You're right, none of us were in the cockpit. Aliens might have taken over the bodies of the crew in the last minute knowingly plowed the plane into the ground.

Safe altitudes are busted all the time.
avherald.com/h?article=4403e7bf&opt=512
avherald.com/h?article=43f15431&opt=512
avherald.com/h?article=427d6604&opt=512
avherald.com/h?article=41a5f274&opt=512
avherald.com/h?article=3ff0b15a&opt=512
convex   
3 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

Of course I know why. He wasn't paying attention to his instruments like he should have been, and his navigator was calling out height above ground, not altitude.

As you know, sky, they likely believed that the TAWS was malfunctioning due to the lack of data for that neck of the woods. I encourage you to check the interview with the TAWS owner of Arizona. They clearly believed they were higher than they were at all times. Pilots tend to know margins of error and he wasn't on a suicide mission.

The navigator was calling out heights that were below MDA. They knew they were busting minimums.
convex   
3 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

What page was this on?

248

My Dad is very skeptical if it comes to the state of current training of pilots , not enough flight hours . My father also says it is outrages that pilots have as little flights hours as he had in just one year . The lack of money is the main issue .Every military pilot according to previous plans in 2010 was to spend in the air over 40 hours.

I don't think it's as much a problem with hours as it is just creating a more professional environment, and enforcing the rules. I obviously don't mind you taking part in the conversation, some of your questions are valid, and I like to explain things. A kind of learning through teaching thing.

Well no surprise that MAK has rejected any part of the Polish Report that puts the Russians at fault.

The MAK report cited plenty of problems on the Russian side.

Maybe pilots are responsible maybe not, maybe it was an accident and then maybe not - thats all who any sentient being can say on the issue.

They usually are. That's a very important thing which is ingrained in your mind. If you fly a plane without a current annual and you crash due to a mechanical issue, it's your fault for flying an aircraft that isn't airworthy. If you get caught in ice and go down, it's your fault for not properly judging the weather. If you taxi out onto a runway while an aircraft is approaching, it's your fault for not making sure the runway was clear. If you're out practicing maneuvers and some goober in a sailplane plows into you, it's your fault for not doing clearing turns. See the pattern? The responsibility for the safety of the aircraft always rests with the captain who has ultimate authority. If a captain is issued an instruction by ATC, it's their duty to deviate from it if they feel it is unsafe.

that is a separate issue...

No, it came down to training and deviation from SOPs. Again, the important thing is that lessons learned weren't applied. The Smolensk accident could have easily been avoided.

I'm beginning to believe the same, I-S. We can't trust these idiots who conduct the investigations and they simply CANNOT reach such different conclusions from the black box recordings.

The reports don't really differ all that much on the root causes. They both acknowledge mistakes on behalf of the flight crew and the controllers.

As I said, a man who sees and who has the required talent can land. Take that away and he becomes blind. Does he need a lot of help? Of course he does. He needs the aviation equivalent of a guide dog and the Russian ATC failed to be that. Delph, for the last time, they went under 100m as they had distorted readings and the Russian ATC really HAD TO see they were dipping too fast.

That's completely inaccurate. It was an NDB approach, the crew was solely responsible for guiding the plane in. He went under 100m on his out instruments in the cockpit. Those are his eyes, not the voice on the other end of the radio. And if he was primarily using the advisory information from the radar controller, he was already making a huge, huge, huge mistake. That's a very basic no-no.

I'm taking flying lessons

Congratulations man :) Say goodbye to your friends, family, free time, and whatever you have in your bank account. PS, don't ever go anywhere with a pilot and non pilot....you just end up talking airplanes the entire time and the earthbound person will have to pretend to be interested, check their phone alot, and stare out of the window :)

Also, can you expand on the "aviation as a hobby" part? Just curious...

Well, no one pays me to fly. I would like to take some time off and get an instructor rating. Not many FAA CFIs over here...It'd be more along the lines of having someone else pay the fuel and put some much needed hours on the TB10. I guess it's more of a lifestyle :)
convex   
2 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

Nevertheless it is interesting !I think is a good question.

Aviation is my hobby, sky is a professional pilot, and delph is an FSB agent.

It's interesting for me because I know a little something about it, and have discussed this over many beers with friends in the PAF before the accident happened. The big discussion back then was the CASA that went down at Miroslawiec. No lessons learned out of that tragic accident is just inexcusable. I'm not alone in my thinking on that... all the usual excuses came up, no time, no money, the problem has already been dealt with by firing a couple of guys.
convex   
2 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

Where is there evidence of this?

Did you read the report? The Yak was never cleared to land, did so anyway, and the controller made the compliment.

Why did Air Tower Control give them permission to make their approach if the Air Tower felt there were bad landing conditions?

Because the captain is well within his authority to request an approach, take a look for himself, and then chose the proper plan of action (divert, attempt a second approach, land if he sees the runway before reaching minimums). In fact, when you're doing an instrument approach to an uncontrolled airfield with no available weather, that's the only thing you can do. If you don't see the runway by the time you hit minimums, you go missed. That's another thing that struck me as odd on the CVR transcripts, there was no mention at all of the missed approach procedure. I think he was determined to land. It didn't sound like checklists were used at all.

I just wounder why so many foreigners are interested in convincing everyone that the Smolensk Crash was a fault of the pilot.

Because this has been an operation that has been planned out for a long time by the FSB and we were planted on this forum years ago to make sure that there is no dissent towards the official Russian/Polish findings....ooops, let it slip!

I have to add that it settles the issue, but in this case it is hard to make it clear , because the character of that flight was civil, but the aircraft was military . So , there was so much fuss about that in last months .

In that case, the flight was completely illegal as there were no qualified pilots on board. But, the report makes it pretty clear what kind of flight it was...
convex   
2 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

This simply explains, why they descended below the minimum altitude and whose fault it was . 10 seconds at that speed is like ages . So don`t repeat your theories like mantra .

It wasn't the controller's job to make sure that the plane didn't bust minimums. That is solely the responsibility of the pilot.
convex   
2 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

In such case it would be better for the crew not to have any radio connestion with the tower , so they would rely only on their cockpit devices and measurements .

Completely agree, and his instruments definitely should have been his primary means of navigation for the approach he was flying.

Delphiandomine, was that flight President of Poland flied a military flight or a civil flight?

Apparently the flight plan indicated it was a military flight, which makes sense as I remember reading that the crew didn't have civilian ratings.

Oh, and apparently it is being taken seriously in the PAF, almost paraphrasing my earlier post:

thenews.pl/1/8/Artykul/52654,More-heads-to-roll-after-Smolensk-air-crash-report
convex   
1 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

Well based on how you described air control towers, I think its time we stop calling them air control towers. They should just be called airport plane taxi services since by your account they do virtually nothing to help planes land and only tell landing planes what strip to land on and coordinate how planes on the ground taxi around.

In this case they providing guidance, they weren't controlling the aircraft. Ground is responsible for making sure that the taxiways are clear, the tower makes sure runways are clear, and approach is responsible for maintaining separation in the air around an airport.

Anyway, OK legally the pilot has ultimate responsibility, but I think its just wrong to blame him 100% if he's getting faulty information from the air control tower.

The information that was advisory, not instructions. It's 100% the pilots job to maintain situational awareness. And it's definitely, absolutely, 100% the pilots job not to bust minimums. Apparently the radar was old and already was showing problems with the YAK and the Il-76 (as per the report).

Its kind of like driving your car. At the end of the day you are responsible for your driving actions despite what people in the car may tell you.

There is a difference between someone issuing you a command and providing you with advice.

I think the pilot originally thought there would be an ILC airport tracking device that would help him land (like there was when Putin and other top Russians landed there before) and only found out last minute there wasn't one.

They had planned to fly the NDB approach from the get go.

The pilots should have been trained to understand that landing in Russia is not like landing in most countries.

Seems pretty straightforward to me for an NDB approach.

I do give credit to the Russian air tower in that they tried to request from Moscow another airport for the plane to land at.

He knew the weather was below minimums, Vnukovo and Minsk were already offered up en-route. Vitebsk was closed that day (even though it was listed as an alternate before taking off, ridiculous).

Russian ATC and the tower should have taken action once they realized that the Yak pilot didn't really care much about following proper procedure instead of complimenting him for pulling off the landing after breaking the rules. But all sides pushed it, and now everyone is dead.

It was completely avoidable by the aircrew had they just followed their own rules. Relying on advisory information from a beat up radar at a decommissioned airforce base in a foreign language when flying your head of state and top military brass is in terrible weather, to put it quite simply, grossly negligent.

But it's over and done now. Like I posted earlier, first and foremost it's the PAF and BOR that should be held to account for putting the President's life in danger like that. The fingerpointing is inevitable, and there's blame to be doled out to just about everyone involved. The only problem is that it deflects from the fact that it was a completely avoidable accident had the crew just followed their own rules. This is a huge, huge, huge black eye for the PAF, and they should take corrective action ASAP to ensure that they can fulfill their mission of providing safe flights for VIPs.

Anyway, your telling me when landing in Russia a plane has to first make an attempt to land (with the possibility of crashing) before somebody in Russia gives the plane clearance to land at another Russian airport???

An approach was requested from the crew, and provided by ATC. The CVR bits in the report are an easy read.
convex   
1 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

I said at the begining that it was caused by many mistakes ( about 150 or something ) by many people , but blaming mainly the pilot is a simple not understanding the whole complexity of the crash . Your view is biased and based on politically one sided version , really anty PIS bashing .

My views are based on my feelings of responsibility as a pilot. I could care less about the petty politics being played out in the shadow of this tragedy. I break the rules, I kill my passengers, I'm responsible. There are almost always contributing factors, but the safety of aircraft stops at the pilot. That is why all aviation authorities that I know of explicitly state that the captain always has the last say when safety comes into question, that includes deviation from ATC instructions. Buck stops at the left seat.
convex   
1 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

Sympathy is the best what we people can do about it.

Every aviation fatality is an opportunity to make flying safer. People should demand that the changes be implemented so that this completely avoidable accident will not be repeated.
convex   
1 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

As you can see from the professional`s opinions ; he was experienced pilot, he was named a champion , the best pilot , extremly intelligent person .

Those lies were inficted in just 3 days after the crash by the Russian machine of deception and distortion.

Any pilot who knowingly descends through minimums is unfit to fly. Any pilot who unknowingly descends through minimums is incompetent and shouldn't be piloting an aircraft. A bit harsh? Not really when you think about the outcome. One person was ultimately responsible for those lives and was legally bound to follow rules which were disregarded. Lack of situational awareness = dead passengers. The controller obviously screwed up too, but the controller wasn't responsible for the safety of the passengers and the aircraft. If you read up on the approach, it was gross negligence on the part of the crew, Russian ATC, BOR, and the Polish Air Force command structure (falsified logs, lack of currency, lack of SOP, horrendous CRM). None of that would have been tolerated in commercial aviation, why was it tolerated in an elite military regiment? Heads should defiantly roll in the PAF for that one.

The YAK captain should be jailed as well. That was a big clue that the problem is systemic and not a one-off fluke.
convex   
1 Aug 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

Can somebody explain to me why the Air Traffic Controller was telling the pilots "On course and path" and "Continue Approach" (page 214 of report) when they clearly were not on course and not on the right landing path?

The report also says that the Il-76 and the Yak40 had the same issues.

Anyway, the entire report is a really fascinating read. The conversations that took part behind the scenes paints a really good picture of "half-assing" things and massive unprofessional behavior from just about everyone involved. Everything was really sloppy, started well before the plane took off, and continued long after the crash...
convex   
31 Jul 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

QFE was given.

That`s the fact , but how could the commander communicate with the controllers, if the TAWS alarm was on making unbearable noise . The plane`s altitude was 1500 meters according to controllers , he couldn`t verify this with plane`s barometer at the same time , so he believed the plane was positioned at such altitude.

Because he didn't enter the QFE when he transitioned.

That is very disputable , as some experts state that the system was not even switched on as the pilot wanted to pull the machine manually .

It was part of the FDR information

That was Smolensk air traffic control crew fault .

Yup, even though the controller is only in an advisory role. the crew is responsible for maintaining altitude

I think that the cockpit resource management was deplorable. Why for instance was the captain on the radio and flying? Sloppy, very very sloppy.

But this radar altimeter is not inside the plane . The controlling tower is equipped with such device . This radar altimeter indicated the plane`s altitude on 1500 meters above the ground and such data was passed on to the Polish commander by the LZC crew in Smolensk . That was a major fault and the most crucial factor of the crash .

The RA is on the plane.
convex   
31 Jul 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

radar altimeter is the same thing as a radio altimeter. if you read the cvr transcript, you can see that they were using it, and the report states it as well. apparently minsk ATC gave qfe at 1500m.

Why was the pilot not informed about the fact that the aerodrome was not equipped with ILS system and the system was removed just days before ?

They planned an NDB approach from the start.
convex   
31 Jul 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [853]

The light`s warning system was completely obscured by trees, which were several meters high above the norm . On the path of a runaway high trees were growing, which was not compatible with international rules . After the crach the pathway and lights system were cleared out of the trees .

Apparently it was safe enough for the Presidential security detail to clear it. The crew apparently thought it safe enough when they landed a couple of days before.

Vitebsk was closed btw.

Controllers confirmed him that the plane was on the safe altitude , he was deprived of the proper information of the plane`s altitude due to the lack of current baromiter conditions which should be given by Smolensk meteorologist on duty in order to set up his altimeter on board of the plane .

The radar altimeter doesn't require the pressure. Based on the recording, seems like they were following it.

Here's the outcome of the Polish report:

The descent below minimum descent altitude (MDA), with an excessive rate of descent, in atmospheric conditions which prevented visual contact with the runway. The decision to go-around was taken too late. This led to collision with terrain, the destruction of the left wing, consequently loss of control and loss of the aircraft.

avherald.com/h?article=429ec5fa/0034
convex   
20 Jul 2011
Feedback / PolishForums Motto? :) [149]

At the very least, I know that Torq operates in the realm of "Great" or "Greatest". So I'm sure he will accept "Polish" as an obviously interchangeable..... meh, the hell with it, sleep.....
convex   
20 Jul 2011
Feedback / PolishForums Motto? :) [149]

So the Polish are a special category outside of the Good and the Bad?

yes, yes they are.
convex   
20 Jul 2011
Feedback / PolishForums Motto? :) [149]

Keep trying.

negative, heroic

PF: Tolerating the Intolerable.

also heroic...man, decisions decisions...
convex   
12 Jul 2011
Work / Back from the UK and working in Poland [23]

IMO Poland would be much better off if it opened its borders to Poles living abroad, especially in such wonderlands as Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia as opposed to "importing" indians and pakistanis.

It's already done. Called the Karta Polaka.

I have permanent residency status and I haven't lived in Poland for 10 years.

That only works if you marry.
convex   
11 Jul 2011
Travel / Poland in photo riddles [3134]

Nope.

oops, pencil and crayon, bolek and lolek are in biskupin :(

btw, grawitacja and alibi are right across the street. the first is a good place for a beer, and the second a good one for a show. my motorcycle is being held for ransom in the parking lot behind the twins :)

there's a Manhattan going up in Poland?

Manhattan is where all the atrocious buildings (that you learn to love) near plac grunwaldzki are clustered.