Language / Collection of learning resources for learning the Polish language [129]

i didn't read through the entire thread, but I have a question:

anyone know of good exercise books? i really enjoy exercise books, but they just don't seem to have them for polish, at least not that I can find. basically, I'm looking for something like a Murphy's book for learning Polish.

i spend so much time in the classroom teaching along with tramming, busing, walking, etc., that I have limited opportunities to speak polish, so having an exercise book where I can at least improve my vocabulary grammar would be ideal, plus, I enjoy it.

USA, Canada / Where to buy Polish food in New Jersey? [157]

don't forget Europa in Jersey City, right on Jersey Avenue.

Language / Polish words difficult to translate into English [66]

ok, let's go back, if it's even worth it. i'm sure our private little tiff is boring others.

Polish has one form of "kurwa", as far as I know. that is "kurwa". no "kurwa'ego", "kurwach", etc. etc.

jebac, pierdolic.....these are different words, not different forms of kurwa.

English has fuck, fucking, fucked, etc. More forms of the same word.

i was misleading when i wrote "different variations/meanings". what i meant by that is there are different ways of swearing that may be comparable to "fuck" or "kurwa" in both languages.

kumasz?

another thing worth noting is that variations of swears in English very often involve 2 or more words, whereas in polish, there is often times a prefix added to the word or of course a completely different word. for example:

if you take "fuck", you can say fuck off, get the fuck out, fuck up, fuck all, fucked over, fuck me, fuckin' A, etc. etc. They're spun off the same core swear word but have completely different meanings.

i'm far from fluent in Polish and could certainly learn a lot from people such as yourself frd, but i seem to be on the right track regarding this.

Language / Polish words difficult to translate into English [66]

frd, if you go back to the original post about "kurwa", you will see the example sentence that is given by the poster, using the word over and over. for all those instances in his example, "fuck" is the direct translation, every time, which I demonstrated by re-writing it with "fuck".

for instances where "kurwa" is just thrown into a sentence just to be vulgar, to make it sound stronger, etc., which was the example the poster gave, "fuck" is the translation.

when did i say "polish is different"?

Language / Polish words difficult to translate into English [66]


this certainly can be true.

regarding "pogodnie", i always found it strange to hear Polish people say, "we had weather", but apparently in Polish, to say you "have weather" is enough to indicate "good weather", so pogodnie i guess would mean something along those lines.

i have a question:

how do you say, "it fits you" when talking about say a shirt or something, as in "the shirt is the right size".....?

people tell me, "ta koszula pasuje ci" but this seems to be more like, "that shirt suits you" as in it is a good shirt that matches you in some way, but not specifically related to size.

furthermore, what about basically anything else when you want to say that something is the right size for something else, like "that square peg doesn't fit into a round hole"....?

Language / Polish words difficult to translate into English [66]


my dictionary says "kindness" or "friendliness".


sure there are other words/variations, but I can say the same thing about english. no different.

Language / Polish words difficult to translate into English [66]

it doesn't make sense to look for the english equivalent of certain words because in some countries they simply don't have certain types of buildings, or food, or anything else for that matter, so naturally they cannot have a word for something that doesn't exist in their country. common sense.

how can you say there is no translation in english for "kurwa"? it's f@ck, only in English, we have many more forms of "f@ck", like with an ing, ed, etc. Like usual, Polish has one word when English has several, all with slightly different meanings, but Polish simplifies it all to one word. A million examples of this in Polish. Anyway, back to Kurwa and F@ck:

na przyklad:

"F@ck, I woke up, f@ckin' took a shower, had a f@ckin' cup of coffee, f@ckin' drove to work, then came the f@ck back..."....so on and so forth.

i've yet to come across a word in Polish that didn't have an English translation, excluding of course things that don't exist in English speaking countries but exist in Poland.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

food for thought:

vistawide.com/languages/us_languages2.htm

if you still think Polish is of any use in America, see "0.7%"

another thing worth noting: of this 0.7%, the majority of them speak English, often times better than they speak Polish, most certainly those that were raised in the USA.


i most certainly "find language learning to be a valuable intellectual exercise", after all, I moved to Poland didn't I?.......I study Polish all the time. My points have been not whether or not I think language learning is good or bad, but specifically the usefulness of Polish outside Poland in general, along with it's usefulness in America. this is how the conversation got started.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


this, if anything, proves my point.

do you know why Americans do not see the value in learning a foreign language? because it simply isn't a necessity. if you had an MBA and a nice paying job in a major city in America, would you then spend the next 3-5 years taking classes in the evening for ....oh, I don't know.......a Chemistry degree? no. of course not. why do people not do that? because it's a waste of time and money.

you said Europeans realise the value in speaking other languages. let's concentrate on the word "value", because value is exactly what we're talking about, in every sense of the word. Europeans learn foreign languages because it's a necessity to communicate with anybody else outside their country's borders, and secondly, and often times more importantly, because without English, they can't get a job. here in Poland, if you're a post grad, 25 years old, and you apply for basically any job, if you cannot speak English, don't even bother applying. this is literally "value". you want a good job? speak English. which, as a result, makes it beneficial for one to go to class at night to learn it, pay money, spend the time, so on and so forth. Europe MUST learn languages. not because they think "it's a good thing to know, people should speak other languages...." but because they simply have to.


i would LOVE for you to fill me in on some examples of people in America getting nowhere because they can't speak Polish/Spanish/Italian. please enlighten me with all your vast experience on this particular matter.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


always happy to be of service.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


this is, yet again, a nothing statement, but if anything, maybe you shouldn't have chosen a POLISH guy, born in POLAND, who speaks POLISH. part of me wants to send this cat an IM, letting him know that in Szczecin, he'll be lucky to earn 1500 a month as a "Informatyk". enjoy your packet soups and bread, my friend.

for what it's worth, Poland's economy has jumped because of foreign investment, along with it's recent induction to the EU. basically, lots of industrialized nations are starting to set up shop here for the same reason every other industrialized nation goes to poorer countries....cheap labor. the people working for say Hewlett Packard in Poland are being paid 15% of what they would earn in America. in addition, if this continues to happen, regarding language, far more Poles will study English rather than transplants coming here for a 1-3 year stint learning Polish.


again, what point are you making saying Ukrainians and Lithuanians are coming to Poland looking for work? have you been to either of these countries? have a look around and you will quickly realize why people are fleeing. it's obvious that people of poorer countries want to move to richer or simply safer ones.


honestly, when is somebody going to present to me at least a decent argument??? first of all, many Poles, or people with Polish ancestry live in the aforementioned countries. secondly, the languages are all in the same language family, sound similar, and share many common words. A native Polish speaker can turn on a Czech or Slovak television channel and understand 70% of what is being said because of the similarities.


including myself, and i never said there weren't. but it still doesn't make the language any more useful. there are millions of Italians and people from Spanish speaking countries living in America, and do Americans need either of those languages? not unless you're an interpreter or an elementary school teacher in Florida or California somewhere in a Spanish speaking community.


again, I'm American, I know just how "useful" or potentially useful Polish is in America. excluding isolated parts of Chicago, Brooklyn, NYC, and some parts of Pennsylvania/Minnesota/Michigan, you will not hear Polish, and if you did, what would be the point or reason for you to understand it in the first place. so you can turn to your friend and say, "i know what they just said"........?

i will continue to study Polish because I live here, have a Polish fiance along with her family, and my kids are going to speak it, so i need to know it. but, when i'm back in the states, excluding in my own home, i am positive that i will have no use for Polish, along with any other language besides English.

it's really simple.....go to rich countries and walk the streets, and then ask people what language they would like to be fluent in if they could choose, and see how many people say, "I want to learn Polish" over all the others. better yet, TELL them they should consider Polish, and try and convince them of precisely why.

i've grown tired of this thread and re-stating the obvious over and over, sorry to say, but after living in Poland for three years, studying the language even longer, and teaching thousands of people from all over the world and hearing what they have to say, I'm quite savvy on what it means to live in Poland and speak Polish vs. living somewhere else.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

surely not on purpose. just calling a spade a spade. this forum is full of lots of exaggerations, false statements and misleading information.


for the most part, this is a nothing statement. according to Wikipedia, Poland has the 8th largest population in Europe, within it's borders. More are scattered across the rest of the continent, which, according to your research, raises it to #5. If Poland's population was twice the size, it wouldn't make any difference. It comes down to mainly economics, and for most people, they simply don't see any reason to learn Polish because:

a) who wants to move to Poland? it's an ex-communist country (just 20 short years ago) with an economy and quality of living far below any western European country, not to mention an abysmal health care system, awful weather, grossly overpriced real estate, food, clothing, cars and basically anything that comes from outside it's borders like international food, appliances, etc. Basically, in Poland, if it's not Made In Poland, it's a ripoff.

b) nobody outside Poland speaks Polish. years and years of studying to finally, [i]maybe[i], learn a language that is essentially useless.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

wow, what a bunch of BS going on here.

the part about advertising for people that speak Polish, in order to get Polish people, entirely believable.

NorthbyNorth, just cut the crap. 3 months and you're almost fluent? I don't even know how to comment on this. Hahaha, and for what it's worth, saying you speak the language fluently without using any declensions is like saying "I speak English, but don't use any articles or verb tenses." Come on. Nearly every sentence in Polish involves a declension, meaning you are messing it up nearly every time, not to mention whatever other mistakes you make. You sir are a prime example of expats running their mouth about how they are "almost fluent", when in reality, if you were to say be a guest on the Kuba Wojewodzki Show, not only would you not comprehend what the man was asking you, but your responses would leave everyone with their mouth hanging open wondering what the heck you just said. Polish is easier than French??? What in the world are you talking about. I guess if you are learning a language with complete disregard to grammar than sure, it would seem easier, only when you speak, nobody knows what the hell you are saying.

delphiandomine, again.....you're talking crap. blasphemy. Polish is a major European language??? what??? go to any western European country and see how many people you meet speak Polish, excluding Polish people. i simply can't believe what I'm reading on this forum.

and Cadbury??? you are out of your mind if you think a job requirement for someone coming to Poland to manage a group of people in Cadbury is they must speak Polish. THIS NEVER HAPPENS. PEOPLE DO NOT STUDY POLISH, and if they do, they sure as hell don't achieve a level high enough to run business in Poland all in Polish. I can tell you this, yet again, from experience. I teach on a regular basis these hot shot executives who get imported from all over the world, places like France, Germany, Korea, Japan, USA, England, Ireland, etc.....and they are given high paying jobs to manage Polish people, and they come to my school to improve their English, not Polish. Occasionally, a brave soul attempts to learn Polish but EVERY time, they drop out saying it's too difficult. Or, they continue to plug along and after a year, two years, they still can't string a decent sentence together. I could live here for another 20 years and I would bet everything I own that I would never meet a single transplant to LG, Hewlett Packard, Siemens, Google, Toyota....you name the major company, and the only people speaking Polish at that company......the Poles.

NorthbyNorth, I'd love to sit down with you and hear your Polish. I'd bet my right arm you're not even at a B2 level regarding vocab, and grammar, well, an obvious ZERO level.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

Szwed, when I say "learn", i mean really learn it, like to a good level of proficiency. not thank you, please, beer, and cheers.

and Szwed, I am from the USA, and not once in my life have I ever needed Polish for any reason whatsoever in America. Also, those 11 million you mention, they live in just a few concentrated areas, mainly Pennsylvania, NYC and Chicago, with a couple more communities in the Michigan/Minnesota areas. In America, Polish is useless.

Also, unless you land yourself a job in a factory surrounded by Poles who happen to not speak any English, it's just as useless in the UK. No business owner in the UK would require,or even expect an Englishman to speak Polish so that he can hire him for a job. They came to England, they should speak English. Simples.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

First time poster, short time reader.

I've been in Poland nearly three years now, have been studying Polish even longer, and, in short, to answer the OP's thread title, "No, they don't."

I would bet that 99% of all posters on this sight who say they speak it well, are not even in the vicinity of intermediate. I say this through experience, not a hunch.

I've met several of those "I am like...intermediate" types, but in reality, they can't string together 1 decent sentence with even decent grammar.

Back to 99%..... 99% of all expats in Poland completely disregard grammar, string together random words with clusters of infinitive forms of verbs because they don't know how to conjugate them, all the while leaving nearly every declension out and paying no attention to gender. If you are saying things like, "Mam starszy ojciec niz ty...." and "Kupiles ta ksiazka?" " or "Ja Bede Wziac ta torba do praca", you do NOT speak Polish.

And the Poles are partly at fault for this false sense of accomplishment expats have. For Polish people, 1 sentence in even decent grammar is an enormous accomplishment. Why? Because chances are, they've never heard a foreigner speak even avg. Polish. It's just an accepted thing in Poland that foreigners "don't get Polish".

Polish is in a class of its own. You don't come to Poland, study a bit, and learn the language through osmosis, much like any other European language. Polish is on a completely different level of difficulty, which is why nobody comes here and learns it. It's generally too frustrating, too challenging and time consuming, not to mention useless as a bag of sand in the desert outside of Poland's borders.