History / Should David Irving, Holocaust denier, be allowed to run tours to Poland? [246]


I just assume it from the way you write. You say "Poles", but you don't specify who you mean. You say "Polish people". From that I guess/think that you mean "Poles" as in ALL Poles.

Like here;



I agree.


I know Poland has tried to convict war-criminals and sent out papers to international police forces and other nations to return these to Poland, but from what I've read, it's been hard. Especially the jewish war criminals who fled to Israel. Israel has a policy of not sending any Israely citizen out, for whatever reason, to stand trial in another country.


If you refer to islam, then it's not an ethnic group, but a political evil, disguised as religion. I only have to ask you to read their "holy book", there you will find racism, sexism, homophobia and the worst forms of derogatory language about non-muslims. It makes Mein Kampf, which by the way sells very well in islamic states, look like a sunday prayer book in a Quaker village.

And if you look at the amount of terrorists, terror-attacks and violence people who are of muslim faith stand for in all the European/Western, not to talk about their own nations. I don't think we are talking about "the actions of a few people", Harry. More like hundreds of thousands. (9/11, 7/7, Madrid, Beslan, Bali, Moscow, Mumbai...)

DariuszTelka

History / Should David Irving, Holocaust denier, be allowed to run tours to Poland? [246]


I conclude that you mean "All Poles", as in the whole Polish nation. If you don't, then you should state that a bit clearer next time. Your attack on Poland, Polish people and Polish history is infamous here on PF. You reek of hate against the country that you live in. Why, only you know.


I was thinking more about Solomen Morel who is said to have killed over 1500 people, mostly Germans and Poles after the second world war in concentration camps on Polish territory;

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4659985.stm

Not to mention all the guards and leaders of the jewish/communist led concentration camps in Poland after the war.

Also included in this list are the Bielski brothers (Who are all dead now), who are under investigation by the Polish Institute of National Rememberance for their crimes against humanity.


Wow, you have got some hate going on there Harry. Take an easy pill, will you?

Muslims kill in the name of Allah and Mohammed. Europeans killed in the name of political insanity, and they are all gone, dead and many of them sentenced before they met their maker. They were nazis and commies, and the rest of "White Europeans", actually MILLIONS of them, gave their lives to stop them. Now, how many muslim countries put up armies and fight against the muslim terrorists? Compare the numbers and you will find that your logic is lacking on all areas.

Would you defend Nazis, because "not all nazis are bad?" Islam is way more racist than National Socialism ever was. So why defend islam? Why not defend Nazis? They are protected under the "Race, religion and political" acts of Europe. It's not illegal to be a National Socialist or Communist in Norway....

The muslims, a bit closer to our actual reality, are still out there, planning the next mass-terror attack. Now how am I bigoted and have a worthless logic, because I want to stop these people before they can do more harm? Were the resistance groups in the Warszawa ghetto "bigots"? Did the resistance groups all over Europe who fought for their freedom against the Soviets or Germans have "worthless logic"? Come on now, Harry, come back to reality, will you?

DariuszTelka

History / Should David Irving, Holocaust denier, be allowed to run tours to Poland? [246]


Yes, of course. In their own country. Not in Europe. Oh wait, they don't have free speech in their countries. I don't believe such a racist, homophobic, sexist and intolerant cult, disguised as religion, should be allowed to openly practice it's barbaric and undemocratic ways openly among our civilized nations. It goes against every value and democratic right we have fought so many wars to achieve. And now we open the door to our medieval past and let in this trojan horse, which if it continues at today's pace will erase our whole society and fabric of life as we know it.

For Europeans I would love it if we had the first amendment of the U.S...unfortunately the more multicultural we become, the more draconian laws they have to make, to "force" us to live amongst one another. Now wee have hate-laws, laws against racism, homophobia and so on. Every year there are more laws, more restrictions on our freedom. The muslims have taken advantage of this and claim that critisizing their religion is "hate". But what about the content of their holy book? If it came out today, with a blank cover, and said it was a "new" religion, it would probably be banned...just like Mein Kampf is.

There is a difference of Europeans debating about historic facts/myths and allowing a death cult to establish itself amongst us.

And the hate laws are 99% meant to be used agains Europeans anyway. Only "we" Europeans can be racist, not the non-Europeans. They have NEVER been racist, started ANY wars, conquered ANY land or have NEVER enslaved ANYONE in their whole existence! Only whitey did these things. People actually believe this.

About your comment on who believes the mosque should be built/rebuilt/allowed to be built near Ground Zero, and then refuse Irving to speak/walk around freely in Auschwitz, we need not look further than here on PF. I believe you and jonni fall under this category.

If I'm wrong on this point, then I'll apologize. But am I? (Be honest).

Dariusz Telka

History / Should David Irving, Holocaust denier, be allowed to run tours to Poland? [246]


Yes, because muslims do not share our values of democracy, freedom of speech, equality among the sexes, accepting homosexuality and that children have rights too. There are too many differences between our societies and cultures for us to co-exist. And again, just read the muslims holy book. In it you will find things that contradict most of our western values and teachings.

How can you argue freedom of speech for someone who doesn't want it for you?

David Irving might be a loonie, but he is loonie that does not want to transform our society into a sharia-law-abiding, intolerant and uneducate/religious dunghole. He merely offends people. Many do that. It's allowed. But muslims want to forbid this offending, on a basis that they are a religion, and therefore protected under our new hate-laws.


Maybe. Of course not all muslims are terrorists! I know many muslims who are not! :-) But their way of life will, once they have outbred us westeners, will be our way of life. Do you want to exchange your peoples' history, culture and heritage with theirs? Have you been to their countries? Compare them to Italy, Spain, France, to the architecture, the philosphy, the history. It boggles one's mind, to think that someone looks at both our cultures equally and equates them, who thinks that they are the same and that it doesn't matter if one take over the other.


There is a BIG difference SeanBM. One writes books and takes tours...harmless. The other really tries to change our WHOLE society from within by sheer numbers, and evetually by force. Now if there was a million David Irvings, then we might be talking about a real threat. For now, the revisionists comprise of a couple of dozen pensioneers who sit in their offices reading old papers to amuse themselves. If you put all the holocaust revisionists together, they would probably not fill up a medium size tour bus. Not exactly the same thing is it. I am NOT a holocaust denier, I just like to have an open mind on history. And one can't get away from the fact that much that has been said about the holocaust have been fabrications and lies. Now where these start, and where they stop is open for discussion! Which we can have, since we live in a democracy and enjoy freedom of speech. Now try do to this in Iran, and try to have a debate about Mohammed or about anything in the Quran...and see how far that get's you. (And you do of course know that the Iranian president denies the holocaust? Not because of freedom of speech, but because he hates jews. And where does he get these wonderful ideas? The Quran..).


Well, it might be pitiful, but it's the truth. Most leftist today have this notion that only the white, rich societies are evil, and that the muslim world never did anything wrong, and only want to live in peace with us. But if you bothered to pick up any history book, you would find evidence on the contrary. When even heads of state of a muslim countries openly brag that they will conquer Europe, not by swords and canons, but by baby-carriages and that muslims in Europe should not integrate, but keep their faith and traditions and multiply, then we should stop and listen. (Ghadaffi and Erdogan, from Libya and Turkey respectively).


There is a difference in saying that David Irving should be allowed his little "tour", without the state imprisoning him, even if what he says is wrong and in many eyes, distasteful, than equating it with a medieval cult, who says that anyone who disagrees with them are infidels and will either pay up or loose their life. Agree? Revisionists never beheaded, stoned, shot, blew up, mamed, tortured, raped, killed or took over whole city areas in the arab world. But muslims have done this, in the name of their religion, in our countries. IF and WHEN the David Irvings of this world start doing this too, we will be on the same page, SeanBM.

DariuszTelka

History / Should David Irving, Holocaust denier, be allowed to run tours to Poland? [246]


I agree 100%!

They have made martyrs of all of them, Zundel, Irving..the lot. Instead of saying, ok, let's have a debate, let's examine everything, they say; Silence! Off to prison you go! How easy is it not for them to say, "I'm a victim". These kind of people THRIVE under such circumstances!

One doesn't "legitimize" someone just because one debates them. Whoever concocted up that undemocratic phrase should be ashamed of himself.

And when Zundel got his time in court back in the 80's, at the infamous "Zundel-trials", he didn't do all that bad, actually. Now isn't that better than silencing/imprisoning them? These are not stupid people, and they would accept defeat if it evidence was put before them.

DariuszTelka

History / Should David Irving, Holocaust denier, be allowed to run tours to Poland? [246]


Yes, that's why I mentioned the medieavel times...we had our period of bloodshed and bigotry. We cleansed ourselves of it. How is it going to help us to reincarnate it through a different belief system today? If the catholic church did what islam does today, then I would oppose that too! I am not defending radical christians, if someone thinks that. Like that sect in the US that laughs and taunts dead soldiers at their funerals...wow, now there is real hate and bigotry if I ever saw it amongst our own.

We created the "New Testament", as opposed to the old one...I would hope that the muslims could make a "New Quran", that said, "Turn the other cheek" and "Love thy neigbour", and so on. Today we send spacecrafts to the outer limits of our galaxy, we have heart transplants, and universities full of academic freedom and knowledge. The muslim world has nothing that even comes close. This is because their religion controls their lives. Just like the catholic church controlled our lives back in their "glory" days. We learned from that, and evolved. How and when is the muslim world going to do this? They clearly state that they don't want to integrate or become like us. So why come here then? To make us like them...


I even read Hitler copied his eugenics fascination from the americans that started in the early 1900's too...

DariuszTelka

History / Should David Irving, Holocaust denier, be allowed to run tours to Poland? [246]


Yes, Stu, I agree with you on many aspects! Crazy people among our own need to be dealt with accordingly! That's why we have developed a very extencive law system for our societies. It is specifically made to deal with our people, who have our culture and society as a foundation. The muslims come from klan-based societies, from societies that view the macho culture of honour and violence as the thing that solves problems, rather than a court and a judge. They laugh at our laws and sentences, and look upon our prisons as 4-star hotels and a notch in their "macho" belt.

So to import MORE crazy people is just that, crazy! If you have water in your basement, you don't put a hose on full pump and put it in the basement as well, do you?

If we are to open our borders, I want fully functional people, people that are mostly secular, at least in their every day life, people with degrees in engineering, science, medicine. People who will contribute and even elevate our societies. Many such people come from third world countries like India and parts of Asia. I'm sorry to say only a handful of the muslims qualify for this description. Note to SeanBM, jonni, Harry...I actually have a muslim doctor from Iran. He is great! But if he kept a woman in a burkha at his reception desk and demanded that my wife sit in the back when we go together to visit him, he would not see me again!

When it comes to the radical Christians, they live in a special world, and it's sad if they don't take part in the normal society, as the ones you described in Holland. We have a "bibel-belt" here in Norway too. Small churches every mile...."Holy fire of Jesus Christ chuch", or "The blessed church of the first saints", and so on....some weird names down there. A lot of homeschooling goes on there too. But as a counterpart to the muslims, they don't create "no-go zones" for non-christians in their areas, they don't sell drugs, they don't gang rape our young girls, they don't stab and kill people who critizise them, like happened to Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh in Holland. The radical christians don't occupy an unproportionate percentage of jail cells for the things I just mentioned above. They don't demand governement funded churches being built with towers that dominate the skyline. They don't, like unfortunately many muslims do, honour-kill their daughters and mothers, or throw acid in their faces, scarring them for life. They don't claim financial support for children they don't have and scam the welfare system in every way possible. They don't fill up all the battered-women centres and mental health institutions. They don't like the muslims do, demand that we give them time off for their own holidays, the removal of Jesus and christmas carols from traditional christian celebrations, seperate swimming pools, muslim prayer rooms in every governmental workplace or at airports etc. They don't demand specially prepared foods, blessed by their religious leaders in schools, even in jail! They don't demand religiously seperated old peoples homes...the list is soooo long.

And if someone from the christian realm wants to quit, to enter the "atheist" society, they can do so without having to live under protected housing, using false names and being afraid their whole life. Because in christianity, denying your faith, is not punishable by death! Yes, there exists some christian cults who approach some very un-democratic ways of life, but they are so small in comparison with the general population, they are not the norm. As opposed to the muslims, in which their religion and holy book dictate their lives 24/7. They are obliged to follow it, or are punished by their society if they don't. It's the will of Allah....It's important to see and understand this difference!

There are many differences between radical christians and muslims, Stu...but as you said, we have our own bad apples! So, let's not import more, shall we? And IF WE DO, they have to swear an allegiance to our laws and our ways of life. They may not bring their whole klan mentality with them, and if they break any laws they will be returned! I personally would like to see the introduction of worker-programs on a time-litmited basis, as they have in Asia. You come for 3-5-7 years, you work, you send money back home, and then you leave...for home! For good!

SeanBM: About the introduction of islam to this thread, kind of sorry, Harry mentioned that I am a bigot and brush everyone with my brush of hate...so it kind of got off from there. But, I'll be more than happy to get back on the actual topic, although my comment was meant to illustrate that people who usually want to ban right wing opinion, usually have no problem letting violent and extreme muslims to have their say. But of course, it's easy for you to now use this an excuse not to actually have an opinion on this matter. And hey, who made you the dictator? I know how much you leftist like totalitarian systems, so go ahead, SeanBM.

DariuszTelka

History / Should David Irving, Holocaust denier, be allowed to run tours to Poland? [246]


A thread can go many ways. If I could connect the muslims to this thread, it is the fact that leftist want to stifle debate if it's people like Irving or political right-wing parties, but have no problem allowing muslims to say things that are much more hateful and anti-democratic. It's this double standard and hypocrisy that I'm out to understand. So, the consequenses of allowing muslims to come into majority power would be that the holocaust never happened, that the sale of Mein Kampf would again be legalized and other than that, there would be no free speech. And no PF for that matter to even debate free speech! How about them apples?


Well, hats of to you for doing such a great job! I have argued about the fact that you can't debate free speech with people who don't see that as a basic right for every citizen. You on the other hand, seem not to have any problems with this logic.


David Irving is not even on the same planet as the muslims. He represents a branch of our western, free speech society. He does not want to overtake our countries and bring in draconian laws that we repelled with the blood of our heroes. Why would you stifle him, but allow islamic preaching on the same land?

So, how about you then, SeanBM, would you allow David Irving to have guided tours in Auschwitz, unsupervised? Would you allow him to hold speeches at hotels, conference halls and in public, in which he debates the holocaust?

DariuszTelka

History / Should David Irving, Holocaust denier, be allowed to run tours to Poland? [246]


Ok, so we agree. Hatespeech is Verboten, this makes both Irving, AND islam illegal!

I can live with that!

Why didn't you just say this right away, we could have been spared all these posts.

Thanks for clearing this up for us!

DariuszTelka

History / Should David Irving, Holocaust denier, be allowed to run tours to Poland? [246]



I told you he was a dictator.... ;-)

DariuszTelka

History / Should David Irving, Holocaust denier, be allowed to run tours to Poland? [246]


Sorry, I feel like Harry now...

If anyone thinks David Irving is being harrassed then think again...this newsstory worries me a bit more than a 72 year old man having alternative views on the holocaust;

"Three-year-olds being labelled bigots by teachers as 250,000 children accused of racism"

It goes on;

"Teachers are being forced to report children as young as three to the authorities for using alleged 'racist' language, it was claimed last night".

"Munira Mirza, a senior advisor to London Mayor Boris Johnson, said schools were being made to spy on nursery age youngsters by the Race Relations Act 2000".

"More than a quarter of a million children have been accused of racism since it became law, she said".

The WHAT act? The Race Relations Act 2000? The New World Order, coming to a kindergarden near you....

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1314438/3-year-olds-labelled-bigots-teachers-250k-children-accused-racism.html

F*ck the holocaust deniers, let's get the kids!

DariuszTelka

UK, Ireland / Ed Miliband, new Labour leader, talking about Polish immigrants yesterday [62]

"Being Jewish must have an influence on the way I think. I am the child of Jewish immigrants and that is a very important part of my identity. It would be wrong to pretend that I was brought up as part of the heart of Anglo-Jewry, but if you ask, do the community's values speak to me? Yes they do. My commitment to equality, social justice, freedom of expression and solidarity must in so many ways reflect my origins. If you try to analyse where I stand politically, it would be very hard to explain that without reference to my roots."

Now exchange Jewish with "White" or "Anglo-Saxon"....tomorrow's headline; "Miliband resigns after racist language".

thejc.com/lifestyle/interviews/6090/david-miliband-red-green-a-generation

Leftist, marxist, jewish, red, global warming, regulations = Speculations in the press of being future prime minister!

DariuszTelka

UK, Ireland / Ed Miliband, new Labour leader, talking about Polish immigrants yesterday [62]


"From his Marxist-Jewish background, David Miliband has emerged as a passionate advocate for action against climate change. We meet the Environment Secretary, one of Labour's rising stars".

"he is far from being a Marxist, but he respects his parents' values"

/lifestyle/interviews/6090/david-miliband-red-green-a-generation

That is obligatory press-BS, he openly says his party is "Red", he acknowledged that "terrorism" is acceptable under special circumstances during an interview with the BBC, but nobody wants to explicit say they are marxist, for not to scare the voters..


news.bbc

"In August 2009, Miliband was a guest on BBC Radio 4's Great Lives programme, choosing South African Communist Party leader and anti-apartheid activist Joe Slovo.[44]"

"In an interview with CNN in 2009, Miliband stated that he has a Jewish background, grew up in a secular setting, and describes himself as an atheist with a "huge respect" for people of faith".[1] Atheist Jew = Marxist

And as usual, they don't practice what they preach;

"DAVID MILIBAND is living in a £1.5million London townhouse at the centre of a complex inheritance-tax avoidance scheme Gordon Brown has pledged to ban.

highbeam.com/doc/1G1-162434630.html

AND he runs around telling countries that fight against militant islam terror-groups that they should relax and let them have what they want. As he did in India and Sri-Lanka....until they started burning effigies of him in the streets, and he went home to his tax-free mansion in England...

And considering his family history....


Dead corpse of Poland....what a nice grandfather.


That if Tony Blair said the same things Miliband said, just exchanges "Jewish" for "Anglo-Saxon", then he wouldn't have become the Prime-Minister of Britain.

As for the "regulations", the more regulations, the more CCTV society you will have, the more control the governement will have over you. What kind of evils tried to implement these kind of societies? Communism and National Socialism. And today, the left side, with the unions, the global warming brigades, the immigrant policies that they openly stated they set in effect, so to keep in power. These are all actions of madmen!

Less regulations, less governement equals freedom, jonni. But maybe it's hard for someone who admires more rules, more control and defends islam?

And I'm a diagnosed nutter huh?

Why don't you read the articles before you defend your marxist hero.

DariuszTelka

UK, Ireland / Ed Miliband, new Labour leader, talking about Polish immigrants yesterday [62]


Why don't you read further down on my comments, and look at the source for that statement.

DariuszTelka

UK, Ireland / Ed Miliband, new Labour leader, talking about Polish immigrants yesterday [62]

Listen jonni, I don't have to show you anything. I posted my info, and it obviously made an impact on you. I don't really care about Miliband, but put in my 5 cents on the subject. From the superficial information I got in my 30 minute web-browsing on him, he fits nicely into the new mold of "leftists", who come from shady backgrounds and who are going to continue to ruin our western world with their seriously fekked up policies.

I'm for less govenrment, monocultural societies and restoring the old ways of honesty and integrity. It's what built up our great civilizations.

I don't see that in Miliband. I don't see that in any politicians in Norway either. I only see more regulations, draconian laws, CCTV, scanners, microchips and big brother. What has this political view done for our culture?

I kind of put everything out there from a personal aspect, while you just sit there and attack, without really contributing or putting any personal opinions out at all. Why should I care to sit and answer you sentence by sentence, when you write one-liners about things you didn't even read correctly and cry like a little baby, demanding answers from me? Get a fekking life and put your own words out there!

I have written hundreds of answers to people here before, mostly to get crap and wishwash back, like your posts. I'm sorry, I just don't care what you think. I put out my view, and you may like it or not. Hopefully someone else will indulge your insanity. As I remember, you inquired into me being banned from this forum once, without actually saying why or proving what could be used against me to back up that claim...that shows your true colours, jonni. (More regulations, less freedom, you know...leftist, marxist, islam politics that you seem to adore).

You're the real hater, and you know it.

Now bugger off.

DariuszTelka

UK, Ireland / Ed Miliband, new Labour leader, talking about Polish immigrants yesterday [62]


That's in the eye of the beholder....


White brits will be a minority on their own land in the not-to-distant future if todays immigration policies continue. The US has gone from 90% white, to about 60-70% in just 50 years. Tick tock.


You have described the political debate and climate in the EU perfectly! (Just take out "marxist" and exchange it with any other political label, especially right wing).


If I had the time and energy, I would read through all your posts and sit here and copy/paste until my fingers were bleeding. You just have to trust me on this one.


I go after ANYONE who plan on ruining my ideal western world. Including white people. Actually I go after them MORE, because they willingly allow their culture and heritage to be destroyed and even advocate this!


That was a very serious question, that I would like to answer yes to. Although I would like to keep the Beetle, the Autobahns etc, but I think you are specifically thinking about their race/extinction/warmongering/landgrab policies. But from their rise to power, and as a result of their policies until the brutal end, the CRAZY left that got into power in the western world with their open border policies as direct result, make our future look rather bleak. Since you found one of my posts about the third world commentary, you should also have found the one where I said I would shoot Hitler in 1933 if I had the chance. Good enough for you?

DariuszTelka

UK, Ireland / Ed Miliband, new Labour leader, talking about Polish immigrants yesterday [62]


See, now you go back to your happy life calling people medicated, irrational, racists, bigots, haters, nazis, rightwing...you know, the typical left wing, marxist, islamic debate techniques you learnt in the labour union class you took. Tautology is your stongest forte, jonni.


Then how natural is multicultural?

DariuszTelka

UK, Ireland / Ed Miliband, new Labour leader, talking about Polish immigrants yesterday [62]


I don't want to harp on it, but the second I read that, Lord Levy came to mind;

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Levy,_Baron_Levy

UK, Ireland / Ed Miliband, new Labour leader, talking about Polish immigrants yesterday [62]


Well, it depends on what we put in "monocultural" and "multicultural".

In this aspect I meant monocultural as "European", and multicultural as mixing christanity with islam.

The first one works, and has given us the western world as we know it through art, science, technology, litterature, democracy, womens rights, workers rights and freedom of speech.

The second one has given us terror, hate, fear, religious intolerance, racism, homophobia, bigotry and reduction of womens/childrens rights.

One can of course interpret these differently, as Europe being multicultural, as mixing German, French, Spanish and Russian cultures too. But in today's political climate it's mostly "us" versus "them", as in christian secular world against the islamic world.

DariuszTelka

UK, Ireland / Ed Miliband, new Labour leader, talking about Polish immigrants yesterday [62]


Sorry, everything I mentioned came from the "white man", the Hindus, Egyptians, Persians, Mesopotamia and European culture. The Moors and arabic culture never had anything they didn't conquer, kill and overtake by brute force. What happened to the islamic "golden age" after islam conquered all these great places? It all stopped, rather quickly.

You can equate it a bit to how the Christians took over heathen Europe. Over all the religious places of worship, there were built churches, all the nice and accepted traditions like yule celebrations, traditions like santa claus, the christmas tree, summer and winter solstice, all these were stolen/taken/incorporated into Christianity so to not upset the locals too much.

The same happened with the muslims in Persia and other places mentioned above. They came in, took over what was there, like math, science, algebra, litterature, and made it "arabic", translated much of it and then passed it on as "theirs". Tody, sadly, there are few remnants of those great civilizations, and only islam in it's pure form remains. Oppressing, non-democratic, homophobic, sexist and religious intolerant to other faiths and their lands former history and knowledge.

But as all these sciences and technology slowly ventured up north, to free havens like Europe, and our continent started to blossom! Today one can clearly see the difference in our ways of life. This is not a coincidence.

Arab conquest of non-muslim lands after 600AD:

everything2.com/title/Chronology+of+the+Arab+Conquest

This one is a bit long, but very informative on how the muslim took over Persia and ruined it;

"The Arabs those days knew nothing about art, architecture, mathematics, astronomy and chronology. Arab conquerors were even surprised when they robbed their first coins. So after four centuries of Islamization in Persia the light of science and knowledge had slowly faded away".

historymedren.about.com/library/text/bltxtiraq4.htm

How Mesopotamia as it was called under Greek rule was conqured and today is called Iraq;

"Most of the Iraqi tribes were Christian at the time of the Islamic conquest. They decided to pay the jizya, the tax required of non-Muslims living in Muslim-ruled areas".

onlydemocracy4iran.com/2010/09/05/the-golden-age-of-islam-another-theft-of-persian-heritage-and-history/

And last, my favourite, "What arab civization?"

"You state, "its architects designed buildings that defied gravity." I am not sure what you are referring to, but if you are referring to domes and arches, the fundamental architectural breakthrough of using a parabolic shape instead of a spherical shape for these structures was made by the Assyrians more than 1300 years earlier, as evidenced by their archaeological record".

ninevehsoft.com/fiorina.htm

All the science, the numbers, the astronomy, astrology...it was already there, Alexw68. Just look at the nobel prize winners list...how many muslims do you find there in math and science? The ones with arab sounding names are mostly Christian arabs, educated in Europe or the US. So still today, the arab/muslim world cannot keep up with us...something to think about?

DariuszTelka

Mod: Sorry, off-topic again....last time, I promise.

UK, Ireland / The more subtle differences: Ireland/Britain v Poland [310]

I just have to put in a thing, that I don't think yet has been adressed. Lights in the house/apartments, both inside and outside.

In Norway, most houses are lit up outside with lamps in the driveway and on the actual house..and almost all the windows in the house, especially the main rooms are lit too.

In Poland and Germany, from what I remember, there are almost no lights outside, and inside one only lights up the room someone actually uses, and turns it off when one leaves. (Doesn't that make the bulb burn out faster?) In my opinion it makes the home look sad and abandoned.

And watching TV with no lights in the living room ruins my eyes!

My wife kills me with this. I come home and immidiately turn on almost all the lights in the house, excluding the bathrooms. She walks behind me and turns them off...if I haven't been in my office for about 20 minutes, somehow she manages to turn it off....arrrgh. Stop it!

I personally hate dark rooms and dark house areas. And if someone comes visiting, it would be nice if they could actually see the path up to the house and not have to look like blind people entering a room for the first time, before they locate your front door.

Sometimes if I come home after my wife in the wintertime, and find her on the computer, while there are no lights on...I always ask her if Osama Bin Laden is around somewhere in this cave, or if she forgot to pay the electricity bill.. But for her this is natural, and something her Polish family did her whole life.

DariuszTelka

UK, Ireland / The more subtle differences: Ireland/Britain v Poland [310]


Well, my thoughs were that Polish and German housing areas look a little bit darker than i Norway, not so many lights on in the windows or outside. Almost like nobody's home. But you can see the lights from the TV flickering in the living room...

About the enviroment, I don't think either poles or germans use that as an excuse not to light up their homes. Maybe in the last 5 years, but in the 80's and 90's?

Besides, I buy those new long lasting bulbs...which saves electricity AND the enviroment...so no nobbing of me, please!

Another thing I just remembered was the usage of water. My wife always turns off the faucet when brushing her teeth, while I keep it running...she does it because her family were very particular of not showering too long or leaving the water running for longer than necessary. I know, I know, enviroment. But I also have water-saving shower heads.

My thought is, is there a line here between the old west and east? Westeners more likely to keep lights on and letting the water run, and old easternes preserving and turning off every light as they leave the room?

DariuszTelka

UK, Ireland / The more subtle differences: Ireland/Britain v Poland [310]


This is basic human psychology 101...

This is not really a "Polish" thing! I really think you would experience this in any other country in the world.

Just try walking into an pub in England and start complaining to people there about their food, their culture, their history. And then travel to Germany or Denmark and do the same thing. They would ask you pretty quickly to go to hell! They themselves can of course critizise themselves, their culture and their history, but you can't! Not like some of you do on this forum. This is basic social intelligence, and applies to all aspects of human life, wether it's work, family or your country. This also works even on the highest of levels. Just read international political news, and you will find dozens of articles about prime ministers and presidents of different countries arguing to clean up their own sh*t before they critizise others'. Sweden vs Denmark in the recent elections are fine examples of this.

If one thinks that critizing and pointing out other peoples' or countries' shortcomings is normal and should be accepted on any level, one would find oneself really alone, really fast. Or in worst case in the emergency room with a tooth or two in your hand. This is NOT exclusive for Europe, just try it Nigeria or Japan for that sake. I think you will find that all people's of the world don't like it when foreigners start complaining or pointing out their weaknesses to them. Especially IN their own country. These weaknesses might be true, they might be obvious, and most people are aware of them, but it's a difference of acknowledging them and being told about them in a rude/forward way from some stranger who visits/lives your country.

Do not mistake this for legitimate and contstructive critizism, which I have seen very little of on this forum. From what I've read here it's mostly unpolished, blunt and not really well thought through opinions. With a few honourable exceptions. (Seanus and BB for instance).

If a foreigner living in Australia went on to a "Australian forum" and started threads like "Are all Australians dirty?", or "Why do Australians drink so much?". And then keeps this up, day after day, week after week, month after month, just constantly slagging every aspect of Australian life, wether it's everyday things or the country's history....would you expect the Australians on that forum to go, "Yeah, it's true, we suck", or would you expect them to tell you to go f*ck yourself? Also try this on a personal level with your friends, and see how far that will get you. On the other hand, if there were some meat to this theory, some facts, some statistics, and then use this with a civilized tone and not a suggestive or derogatory tone, I would think the level of debate on this forum would be where it should be! (On these kind of topics).

If you used some of the threads here that have shown a poor choice of words and switched the words "Poland", "Polish" and "Poles", with let's say, "African", "Homosexual" or "physically challenged", people would call it for what it really is, bigoted and unfair. But since it's "Poland" we talk about, well then, the gloves are off.

EVERY country has something that is bad, either it's the red tape in government, bad roads, religious intolerance etc. Most people in here are not Polish by birth, and I would think if I asked them to point by point write down what they would like to improve in their birth-country, this list would be rather long, well into double digits. No?

I know some of the debates here have been about historical events, and both Polish, German, Ukrianian, Dutch, American, Serbian and even people with the possiblity to hold 7 different passports (Harry) have slugged it out. But to say that "all Poles" or "Poles" share the views of half a dozen of posters here on this forum is a bit disrespectful and untrue. Now, if a professor of history from a Polish university started to lie openly on this forum about an established fact, one could broaden the terminology a bit.

And Harry, you have the diplomatic skills of a 10 year old boy, maybe tone it down a bit when you critizise people? It's amazing how far one comes with a bit of humility and respect! (Two way street).

DariuszTelka

UK, Ireland / The more subtle differences: Ireland/Britain v Poland [310]


I just said English, but could just as well said, Swiss, Finnish, Maori or Vanuatuan for that matter. It's about the big picture, about how people react when you critizise them in their own living room or talk about their country. Like the way you simply cannot write a sentence without either "stating a fact", calling somebody a liar or insulting someone. How about it Harry, why don't you try and be a little more people friendly, huh? Being so confrontational has to wear you down?

Englishmen are a one-of-a-kind breed, I'll give them that, but that's why people love them so much too. Unfortunately for them, they are emigrating en masse every year to the States and Australia because of the political insanity that currently runs their country. Over 100 000 brits leave the Island every year:


I don't really have the time or energy to sit and read through all your posts, but I remember that you haven't exatctly been the promotor of diplomacy and level-headedness here on PF. If someone could sit down and count how many times you wrote something derogatory or personally insulting, it would take them an entire evening. Or two. And I remember people gave you back as good as they got. You don't find this kind of debate tiring? (It takes two to tango...).


I don't deny the holocaust. I question certain aspects of it. Don't worry Harry, I have enought respect for the both of us.

DariuszTelka

UK, Ireland / Why Manchester rules over Warsaw :) [65]

Northmancpolak:

I have som good memories from Manchester. Especially staying at the Castlefield hotel next to the museum you posted a picture from above, the hotel is brilliant with a football hall, running track, swimming pool, squash halls, weight rooms, snooker rooms and a bar next to the football hall. More hotels like this, please! But the weather, man..the weather, how do you cope? Waking up and seeing the whole year pass by in one hour outside your window. I'm not kidding, it had all four seasons in just one morning. Sunny, cloudy, rainy and in the end..snow, before the sun came back again. Finding out what to wear was a b*itch. English weather at it's best...

I went to Manchester about ten years in a row up until 2005 or so, to watch Manchester United play at OT and a fair amount of away games. I do NOT remember Manchester from the pictures you posted here...something serious has happened to the skyline...I remember they took away our favourite pub at the intersection where Sir Matt Busby road starts..but this is crazy.

My biggest experience there, apart from watching Manchester United, was when they bombed the Arndale center...(I believe it was the IRA). And being told NOT to go to Moss side after eight o'clock at night. Otherwise we had a great time in Manchester, nightclubs were good, restaurants also, although I got a bit sick of the lack of trees and grass in the city centre after two weeks...

On the other hand, the same gang of friends stopped by Warszawa for one evening this summer, and we were very impressed with the old town. After a night out, we walked for quite a stretch along the old city centre and the buildings were magnificent. To think that all of that was rebuilt after the war is mindboggling. Now, why couldn't they have made ALL of Warszawa like that? What we saw outside of the old town is better not spoken of.

DariuszTelka

Life / I saw Polish nationalism today [249]

Skinheads and neo-nazis in countries previously occupied by nazis are not uncommon. Now if someone want's to write a "Freudian" university paper on the subject...go ahead. I'm just gonna link a couple of newsarticles that can make people go.."huh?".

"A neo-Nazi gang in Israel sounds, at first, like a nasty mistake. But experts say that eight young immigrants from the former Soviet Union may have stumbled over a mundane obstacle: integration."

"Police said the cell's leader was Eli Buanitov, a Jewish-descended Russian immigrant who swore in an e-mail never to have children. "I won't have kids," he wrote, according to detectives. "My grandfather is half Yid, so that this piece of trash won't have ancestors with even the smallest percent of Jewish blood."

spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,504803,00.html

"English skinheads wave.... Israeli flag!!!!"

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211414/Anti-fascists-clash-right-wing-protesters-Birmingham.html

"German Islamists convicted over bomb plot"

"Four Islamists have been convicted by a court in Germany of plotting to attack US facilities in the country.

The men, two of whom were German-born converts to Islam, were given prison sentences of between five and 12 years."

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8549044.stm

And now for the "raisin in the sausage", like we say in Norway:

"Norwegian police are investigating new claims that a Russian neo-Nazi arrested in Oslo last month was planning attacks on personnel at the Russian Embassy and on Norwegian muslims".

newsinenglish.no/2010/10/07/russian-neo-nazi-planned-attacks/

Now, does this make the polish "nazis" look any less crazy? Maybe not, but there sure is a lot of strange things going on in Israel/Europe right now. I could just as easily have found the same "crazy" people on the left, stalinists, animal liberation groups, anarchists, muslim fundementalists, feminists etc. They're all out there for those who want to see.

The nazi/skinhead movement is basically dead. What we see here are remnants of the past, trying to find a new form. The only reason nazi stuff is/was used was to get attention and to scare people. 99% of the people in these groups did not know anything about national socialism, Hitler, the war or anything. But to tattoo a swastika just meant to be a rebel, to stand out. It could just as easy be replaced with another symbol which would represent the fight against communism or muslim immigration/violence towards ethnic europeans. But the swastika or any other nazi symbol works best. The media and the leftist governments that have had control over our countries the last decades made sure of this. The communists in Oslo and other european countries could have their own house, concerts, marches, flags with communist symbols..they were free to voice their political view. The right wing had none such freedoms. This naturally created tension and animosity among the "frustrated" nationalistic elements of the population. Poland is not vaccinated against this, so there will be people who are attracted to these views and political fringe groups. How many are they in Poland? 0.000001% of the population?

DariuszTelka

Life / I saw Polish nationalism today [249]

Ender, I found som links to the marches around in Poland. I read in article that they had slogans like: "There is no shame in being Polish", "Poland, big and independent" and "Patriots march again".

March from Warszawa:

youtube.com/watch?v=oih9rEVWyZk&feature=player_embedded

March from Wroclaw:

youtube.com/watch?v=I_xL4dKdlbs&feature=player_embedded

A guy not happy with the police. He complains about how they, the Poles can't even move freely around. I also read the the "left" side didn't have the right to demonstrate that day, but did so anyway. Some of the anti-fascists attacked people going to the march on a train with hammers and tear-gas.

youtube.com/watch?v=bB2Bzf3zpE4&feature=related

"The nationalist march commemorating Poland's Independence Day finished by the monument to 1930s nationalist leader Roman Dmowski".

thenews.pl/national/?id=143298

Is this really "nazi"? Or is it ultra-nationalism/patriotism? I can argue that nationalism/patriotism is very good for a nation. As well as I can argue that nazis have nothing to do in Poland.

How are people ever going to get the difference?

DariuszTelka

History / POLES NOT KEEN ON REPRODUCING? WHY ARE THERE SO MANY GERMANS AND RUSSIANS? [67]


Yes, actually. In Oslo the most popular name in the maternity wards is now Mohammed. Oslo, as a city, will have a minority ethnic Norwegian population in less than 20 years. There are already dozens of school with less than 1% Norewegian children attending in Oslo and the surrounding areas.

All this has happened in just over 30 years. The next 30 will be disasterous if nothing changes or stops.

DariuszTelka

History / Roman Dmowski-Patriot, Nationalist, Anti-Semite? [237]

Was Roman Dmowski Poland's "Otto - The Nazirene"? It's the story about the movie "Life of Brian" and scenes that were deleted/cut out by jews themselves, about Eric Idles charachter "Otto - The Nazirene", who was "determined to promote Jewish racial purity, carve a Lebensraum from the "traditional Jewish areas of Samaria," displace the Samaritans into internment camps, and plan an Anschluss of Jordan to "create a great Jewish state that will last a thousand years."

notmytribe.com/2009/zionists-censor-life-of-brian-final-cut-812015.html

DariuszTelka

p.s. Harry, I see you suddenly got very interested in numbers again. When we discuss the holocaust, and I pointed out to you the fact that the official Auschwitz numbers were taken down from 6 million to 4 million to 2 and half million, and now down to 1 million, you didn't really care too much about that. But to find some "6 488" doctors and defining percentage is suddenly important and you get to tell people that they lie. But those 5 million that suddenly came to life or never lost it, whichever way you look at it in Auschwitz...now, what about that "percentage"? Important? Who is lying now? The museum? The Russians? The Poles? The Simon Wiesenthal Center? You?

History / Roman Dmowski-Patriot, Nationalist, Anti-Semite? [237]

How about adressing the facts for a change, and stop with the personal insults, jonni?

DariuszTelka