History / Do you regard the Polish Communist Partizans as heroes? [36]


They fought Germans and most of them actually got murdered by Russians, yeah they're considered as heroes but being a tiny fraction of the real partizan movement they dont get a lot of attention.


No such thing, Soviet Partizans would consist of Ukrainians and Russians living in Poland, Polish Communist Partizans were not always supportive of Russia.

Also how about stick to one username and stopp troilling you little f*ck?

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]

Bolesław Chrobry used the short time HRE had no emperor to crown himself, otherwise Germans would never agree to have a king, basically a duke had to obey the HRE while the king could tell them to f*ck themselves, which he and his son did via a series of wars.

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]

Des


A vassal duchy! Germans attempted to stop the coronation, they did not want Poland to become a kingdom.

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]

Dont worry i'm all for civilized solutions right now :)))))

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]


The problem is far more interesting.

Germans basically pushed eastwards genociding or assimilating all slavic tribers untill they bounced into polish tribes. Proto-polish tribes were different, they were very populous, lived in fortified cities and were warlike, also they were in the middle of unification, various german nobles attempted to invade and bounced back.

Eventually the German Emperor noticed the expansion stopped and went to investigate, what he found was a powerfull well organised and rapidly growing duchy that could not be conquered without a major war so he vassalised it instead.

Of course Polish rulers were not content to be subdued to Germans, given the HRE miscunduct towards the young country it ended with a series of wars in which Poland won its full sovereignty but thats later history.

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]


I'll be in Kraków soon, want to grab a drink? :))))

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]


You're being the troll here mate and we both know it, i'm rising to the bait completely willingly and knowingly so whats the point?

The german city layout is an almost exact copy of the roman city as with many dark age/medieval achievements they're not german they're Roman and if you want to have a "who do we owe what" then its mostly Romans we and the rest of Europe owe much.


He just wanted a heated argument, he's a troll.

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]


And its based on ancient roman city layout, roman not holy roman empire.

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]

The title is ridiculous and Palivec is lying again, then again thats Pawians way of trolling, he wanted this thread to flame off.

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]


Even in this meaning we don't owe anything.

Magdeburg layout we owe to the Romans.
The altar we owe to those who commissioned it.


And not to people who comissioned it?

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]


The administrative comittee numbered around 1500 people, the physical workers, more than 100.000 initially later 20.000, the bulk of rebuilding took 10 years but many structures were being rebuilt untill 60s, the cost and effort itself were mind boggling.

Warsaw alone suffered greater destruction and loss of life then all german cities during WW2 Dresden included.

History / Polish historical myths - to break or not to break them? [257]

I generally try treating people i talk to seriously, unless they're PWEI then i just try to insult them as much as i possibly can :)))))

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]

Both cities were almost completely destroyed and rebuilt by Poles, for polish money, the so called compensation Germany paid is a joke, its not even 1% of the materiel loss suffered by Poland and lets not forget the 5 milion people.

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]


No, german repatriations, those that were paid were only a token compared to the destruction they visited upon Poland, someone calculated the approximate cost of damage done in Warsaw, it equaled twenty years of German budget.

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]

That in their chauvinism Germans see all the afformentioned cities as theirs, often enough completely baselessly.

All it takes is for you to read our resident german BB, his posts basically amounted to "We brought you civilisation!!!11111111" and he was completely deaf when someone pointed to him that Poles built their own sophisticated culture and the only influence Germans had was attempting to destroy it for the past 1000 years.

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]

Amazing isnt it? And Germans are utterly convinced they brought civilisation to Poland (by destroying it?)

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]

Sorry nope, if they got paid they would built it, what Stoss did while an art-work could have been done by someone else and if need be would have been done by someone else, he was just at hand.

Also as i pointed out he got paid very handsomely so its hardy a debt.

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]

Czechy aint Vatican also how long did he stay there?

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]


Unlikely, Mieszko could not leave his country for a longer period of time, Poland was still being formed.

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]


Yes they would, they'd just hire an Italian to do it, Vit got lucky since it wa mostly italians who got commisions.


Italians had at the time a much better record of sculptures, i dont see a problem in hiring one to do a better work.

So no we dont "owe" the altar to the Germans.

History / Polish historical myths - to break or not to break them? [257]

Writers, professors, politicians, teachers, families with generations of tradition and roots, they're the ones who drive any country, they're the ones Germans and Russians took away from us hoping to take away our prosperity.

History / Polish historical myths - to break or not to break them? [257]


Because they're rich.


You got money, you got heritage, you got elites, you got a working society = you're lucky. Countries like Poland which got nuked by war repeatedly need generations to catch up and thats pretty unlucky i'd say.

@Retro.

Your post is gibberish.

History / Polish historical myths - to break or not to break them? [257]


Those less ravaged by wars.

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]


The problem is that Germans did not give Poland anything, what they brought to Poland was y'know bought by Poles, with good money too so its hard to write about positives as from this point of view there were none.

History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [448]

I daresay Poles do not owe Germans anything and the altar was very well paid for (Stoss got more money than he could ever hoped for in Germany).

Lets do a bit of a summary of what Germans did for Poles.

Genocide of Gdańsk, renaming it Danzing and claiming its a german city.
Destruction of Warsaw, the capital of Poland.
Partitions.
Murder of 5 milion polish citizens.
Murder of the better part of the polish elite.
Mass kindappings of polish children during WW2.
Destruction and theft of polish industry after WW1.
Melting down polish crown jewels.
Blowing up parts of Wawel, one of the holiest and most ancient royal sites.
Supression of polish language for 123 years after invading Poland during the partitions.
Torture, all executioners and torturers as well as methods of torture were brought from Germany in the medieval times.
Bankrupting Poland and attempted partitions by saxon monarchs.

And much much more.

History / Polish historical myths - to break or not to break them? [257]

How is that a myth? Polish suffering is very analogous to that of Jesus Christ, both undeserving and after saving others.

History / Polish historical myths - to break or not to break them? [257]


All history is subject to interpretation, your very topic shows that you're nothing short of a troglodite despite your claims of being an astute historian. There is no such thing as an objective presentation of historical facts, ever.

The only thing which we can discuss is considering outright lies, also what myths? Polish history contains no myths as far as i know.

History / 'Battle of Britain' won thanks to Polish aces !! [158]


All Poles were flying Hurricanes (inferior planes) through all of BoB, Spitfires were reserved for brits.

History / Let's talk about the POLISH ARMY [79]

And yet you can't speak polish.

History / 'Battle of Britain' won thanks to Polish aces !! [158]


Actually the Poles joined in the thick of the fighting and it was because they joined that UK survived.