Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

I spoke to a Polish businessman about this last night and explained that, in my opinion, Polish people appeared to be very disorganised, especially in business. I was expecting some defence about not tarring everyone with the same brush, but, what I got was an interesting analysis.

Firstly, he said, "Sadly, I think you're right". He went on to explain that Poland switch from communism to capitalism overnight and that there was no period of rehabilitation or retraining for the new way of life. In communism, he explained, it didn't matter what decisions a manager made in an organisation, everybody got their money anyway, so they could do as they pleased.

Shortly after communism, it didn't matter what decisions were made because whatever happened they were going to make little or no money.

So, either way, decisions simple didn't have any significant impact on success or failure. This was the way of life and it's not changed. Thankfully, I've met many students studying 'management' so I hope that the upcoming generations kick Poland into the 21st century and get organising...

Incidentally, I'm supposed to be a project manager... but my every attempt to keep a project 'managed' and plan ahead is simply blocked by the company president. Every decision must be approved, every email checked... if I think more than one week ahead - that is simply blocked... even a day ahead is often too much... !

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

The mail in the box backwards? Now that is drastic and certainly an issue of national security :) Dammit, I'm too tired today to come up with anything witty.... (don't know what my excuse is on other days) Hope you get organised soon... fight off the Polish side :)

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

:) That's fine, provided you dont mind too much if I learn from those that I lose :)

You've still not given us any examples of good polish organisation.... I have further examples of poor organisation if I must...

and you really must stay up later at night, this is torture waiting all day and night for your answers :)

;)

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


The truth was out from the start check my first post where i said "I say 'as a general rule' because I have met some that are good planners and organisers." Would you like me to go over that again for you? :)


However, it turned out that this is the norm...

hehe named me twice... never mind that... ask why the hell I die in every episode! :)

Dammit, is this the end of the arguement? I was just getting used to having something exciting to read in the mornings :)

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


Irony dear... something that never made it to America


Who said this was the most important question of my life? This is just a discussion on a forum which takes up a tiny fraction of my attention some days. As for why this question came about, it's because I've met many example of where many (not all) of the Polish people I have encountered appear to be totally incapable of any sort of planning, preparation or organisation. I was wondering if I had just been unlucky or if this was the 'norm'. Unfortunately, some people here seems to have had similar experiences.


Alas, the first part is your american blood, the later, the Polish :)
C'mon, now i'm just poking a little fun.. smile!

Tony it is. Kenny as a surname is my Irish blood

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


The last company I worked for in England was pretty good at planning, especially in new IT systems. They knew exactly what was to be done and when. Testing took place, equipment was installed on time and training commenced exactly to plan.

Then the British armed forces, OK, they have a few hiccups like my cousin arrived in one war theatre a few weeks before his weapon... but hey, c'mon they can plan the hell out of a parade.. and that's what counts, right? :)

Generally, I found in the UK, unless government money was being spent, people were generally better at thinking ahead in many aspects of life. With the brass band I played in, everybody knew exactly when we were playing, where we had to be and when. And we always knew who was responsible for colelcting equipment, organising stores, music, transport... everything went according to a plan, even if it was only verbal, we all knew what was expected.

Matyjasz, you mention public transport. I've only had the pleasure, once or twice, but despite it not being particularly clean, I understand it's pretty reliable... in stark contrast to the UK 'infrastructure', using that term very loosley loosely... oh bugger, it's after midnight, my keyboard can't spell.

T

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


1. There are not many muslims in Poland so the chances are quite slim
2. The buge black moustache often gives it away.
Now we really are talking gerneralisations...

As for my original post being insulting, maybe go back and read it again. If I recall, (I can't be bothered checking), I finished the post with a question asking for other opinions and experiences. How would it look if i opened a discussion with only a question without offering my opinion?


You've found one that can think *that* far ahead? Wow, you've done good!

So, we'll see where this goes, but, if we really must stoop, I can write a list of fine examples where a lack of planning or even just short term forward thinking supports these opinions.

Hey, I'm bored.. let's give a couple here;
1) My ex objected strongly to my planning our route from central England to Krakow by car. She said she saw no point, just get in the car and go! She had no concept of planning to meet the ferry at the scheduled departure time as we had a ticket that allowed us on only one sailing...

2) The aforementioned traffic lights issue
3) When attending a meeting that is a 30 minute drive away... thinking that setting of 15 minutes before the meeting - and _then_ encountering traffic! (in rush hour)

Now, please, do feel free to give examples of good Polish planning and preperation.
Oh, I have come across a couple of well run companies in Poland... which turn out to be run by foreigners!

kaching

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

I thought it was a joke actually after my saying that it's refreshing to see somebody who can 'debate' without insulting.. then came the insults... first I laughed... then i thought maybe, just maybe, it was serious...

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


That is exactly my experience of debating :)

Patrycia, thanks for your input... you've added a little life to the thread :)
But if you think that a general observation and personal opinion is an insult, then I apologise to you... but maybe the comments are a bit close to the bone, a bit to accurate?

As for talking crap... exactly, that's what I'm here for :)

MrBubbles... exactly.

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

silk ties and suits.... hell, I learn a new fetish on here every day! :)

I just wanted to add a bit here.... traffic lights... polish drivers... a little situational awareness and, dare I say, forward planning will help us all move that little bit quicker on the roads. When you see the opposing lights change to red, maybe this is a good time to stop picking your nose, put the car in gear and thinks may be, just, maybe, that your lights might just be about to turn to green!!

One of my Polish friends in England commented that she really liked how when the lights turn to green in England, everybody starts moving; they are all ready to go! Even the car 10 places down the line....

7 Ps.... I must introduce Poland to the 7 Ps

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

hehe thanks. I must say, I think Olasz would make a great debating partner and it's refreshing to meet somebody in an online forum who can debate without decending into insults (which frankly shows a loss of an argument and self control)

So, my hat's off to Olasz :) Let's select another topic - i sure need to vent :)

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


Ah, there's the thing... they weren't language teachers? They think tense is what you do to a muscle...

But really, I have a similar thing with Polish natives when I ask them simple grammar, like, why do nouns change and what are the patterns... they have no idea! They just know to say it this way.

I hear what you're saying about not knowing something that we learned in primary education but as far as I recall from my primary education (early 80s) we did very little on grammar. Yeah, I remember once being told what an adjective and a noun were but that's as far as it went. This should have been carried on into secondary school to actually understand our language. Rather than just getting a 'D' on an assignment - how about tell me where I went wrong and how to improve my writing style and gammar? But oh no.. that would be far too logical.

Now, where did I put that tupennce?

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


Thanks for that. I'm an ex-programmer moved into management, hoping to slowly inherit a team.... nice to know they like pressure....

But, sorry, this pressure comes with a system specification and a plan :) There will also be a pressure relief valve if it gets too high.


You're quite right with this, but did you learn your native language with you parents saying "this is past tense, we use this... ". No. You learn by copying what they say and learn what words and phrases are in context. Could you explain to me the noun cases and when to use them along with all the possible endings? I suspect not, but if you can, then I sure hope you live in Gdansk and have soem teaching skills because i'll need to meet you. I've known Polish teachers who can describe the tenses perfectly, but barely knew phrasal verbs and couldn't pronounce 'th' without saying 'd'.

As for you putting everybody in the same sack. Well, I guess we are, but we are saying 'on the whole', not 'all people'. We're making generalisations and from my experience, I've not _yet_ met any Pole who is a good organiser. Most certainly not in the older generations.

Finally, your comments about Brits nto knowing where places are or what things are like olives, sadly, in many cases this is true. It was recently(?) shown that many school children are incapable of identifying a vegetable in its raw form. They were also completely unaware that chicken doesn't actualy grow in boxes in the kitchen of McDonalds!

2pence

Life / If I could introduce something from my country into Poland, I would.... [175]

I made a Sunday roast this weekend and do it often in Gdansk :)

My friends who have tried my British dishes say I should open a local British cafe...

Greasy breafast or Lancashire hotpot anybody? :)

T

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

Well, it was an interesting discussion, glad and yet also sad to see I'm not alone on my observation. Maybe Poles will eventually learn about the & P's. Until then, they will just muddle along reactively and doing everything at the last minute .... and everybody else will prepare and beat them to everything.

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]


Not really loaded... and i was kinda hoping you would all tell me I was wrong and I had just had some unfortunate encounters. So I could look forward to things improving....

Life / Polish Organizational Skills [83]

That's pretty much what I feared. It's almost as if they are just waiting for their leaders to give them the next instruction. I thought that way of life was supposed to be left behind in 1991.

Life / If I could introduce something from my country into Poland, I would.... [175]


I agree... Gdansk is very bad for this... with my friends in a group at the weekend, as i was walking in front i kept pointing out the shit so people didn't drown!

again, pictures and if you like, video, can be made available. I can watch them from my window. Pupa skupski is what we need here... or maybe straz can fine people for that and make lots of money for the city?

1 zloty per gram should do it...

Life / If I could introduce something from my country into Poland, I would.... [175]


I agree totally, London is a disgustingly dirty city, a horrible place. Poland is far cleaner in the cities than most English towns. Yes, there are areas around the public waste sites, mainly caused by scavengers looking for gold and the lack of lids isn't great when a wind gets up.

Oh and fly tipping seems worse here.. but in Ukraine it was a lot worse.. and one guy... in the middle of the day wasn't bothered about us watching whilst he emptied his bin on the river bank!

So really, Poland isn't all that bad, there are things I would bring here from England, like government departments who have a clue.... or was I just lucky to live in an area where the local council workers were actually educated?

T

Life / If I could introduce something from my country into Poland, I would.... [175]


Really? I'm surprised! I've not experienced this in recent years in England, they usually bend over backwards to help. But then if they don't, I'm the first to customer services speaking to the manager!

As for PC world.. no surprise there... as for their knowledge of PCs, zero. Last time I was in I only wanted to buy a game, they were not interested in helping me find it unless I was going to spend a lot of money. So, here I am, 1 desktop and 2 laptops, digital camer and various other items later... and not one of them from PC world all because of this one act of arrogance.

But i'm still surprised about your experiences with supermarkets. Aldi, lidl, I expect it, but not from Tesco/Asda.


Bought this at tesco but it was hella expensive. I also saw British baked beans there one too, but that shelf has been empty ever since.

As for the bacon, if you're lucky, you can select a good bacon in the butchers and then slice it real thin yourself. It's the same stuff, just not sliced. But I look for the stuff with less fat on it.

Proper milk is also available in most shops. I hate UHT and never touch it.

Most other things I make myself, cornish pasties, yorkshir pudding, quiche (is that even british?) and the like.

Tony

Life / If I could introduce something from my country into Poland, I would.... [175]


I have to agree with this. In one restaurant in England, some girl was blowing her smoke directly at our table! I was thinking if she doesn't want her smoke and doesn't want to blow it at her friends why the bloody hell blow it at us! I bet she'd really complain if I visited her table and farted! At least that wont destroy her lungs!

And another exclamation mark just make a point !

The comment about bisto gravy.. ewwww. no, I always made my own and it was much better! OK, sometimes I'd settle for bisto when in a rush... or wanting a salt overdose.

So, what would I introduce from the UK to Poland? hmmmm,
1. Companies paying salaries at the end of the month, not 10 days later
2. Emplyee rights.. they seem to have none in Poland, including this 'pact with the devil' contract that many have to sign.
3. Government documents in various languages - would make likfe a lot easier
4. Motorways!
5. Me. oh, I'm already here! :)

T

.. I forgot to mention 'customer services'.

I see the Tesco brand has been introduced to Poland but without the customer service I would expect. Twice now I have tried to buy products just to have them thrown to one side at the checkout because the computer could not read the barcode!

In England, the cashier would get of their arse, or ask a supervisor to get the correct code or customer service would give you the product for free!

When trying to purchase electrical good in the same store, twice we had to wait about 10-15 minutes for somebody to even attend the department. Asking the girls on the next department and they just told us that there should be somebody there.

In short, staff in Poland don't give a sh*t. This alone is a good reason to learn Polish because my girlfriend is unwilling to translate for me to make formal complaints :)

T

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]


I couldn't disagree more. I am sure there are some people who would match some of these descriptions, in fact I could name a couple, but, they are in no way indicative of the Polish people on the whole.

OH, but one thing... they cant' seem to organise a piss-up in a brewery!! and that does seem indicative of the people as a whole - in my humble opinion of course!

T

PS. They're, there & their. I can offer some lessons at my standard rate if you like (wink) :)

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]

Thanks for the replies, now it is a lot more clear! :)

Tony

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]


Can you explain? I'm not sure I understand your response, VaFunkoolo. Surely hiring better teachers will cost more and eat into profit? On the other hand, hiring better teachers will cost attract more students and increase reputation and profit.

I've given up teaching as a job because I can mare more money in IT, in fact twice as much. This gives me time to teach privately and do some voluntary teaching and enjoy it more. I love teaching so this will become a 'professional hobby'.

Toy

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]


I identify with this and yet I partialy disagree. There is a time to correct and a time not to correct. My foreign friends insist that I must correct them all the time. I gently suggest that they allow me to choose when to do so because sometimes communication is more important than accuracy, as we well know. Not only that, if I've just finished a 12 hour day, the last thing I want to do is explain grammar!

On the other hand, when I was on a Polish course and reading out my homework to the class, the teacher would stop at EVERY SINGLE BLOODY ERROR! This was so annoying that nobody actually heard what I had written and the whole point was lost. My manager even asked me to correct grammar at the end of EVERY SENTENCE! Instead, I allow the student to finish what they are saying and help with error when they finish speaking. This allows for them to actually communicate and feel better about doing so. I keep paper handy and have learned to write some errors without losing eye contact with the student. A neat trick if you can manage it so they don't notice you're writing - oh and don't retract the nib on your pen.. that 'click-click' alerts them to the fact you're about to make a note!

You're right, sombody correcting every other word really p*sses you off and you lose confidence too quickly.

T
(this soo needed a new thread)

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]

VaFunkoolo,
Thank you for your input. I am sure there are as many bad teachers are there are schools. I for one would _not_ moan about being overworked on a 25 hour contract. Even if it takes me 30 minutes to prepare each lesson, that is no more than a standard full time job. However, I do object to this then being annexed by an additional 5/10 hours per week of unpaid work!

I most certainly do not claim that things would be better if I were in charge (and I'm not suggesting you made such an allegation). I am an inexperienced teacher simply wanting a fair deal and an opportunity to grow professionaly. Yes, this includes some simple ideals such as being able to observe experienced teachers and to expect a basic level of respect from my manager which does not include being shouted at accross the length of the school for simply abiding by the student's (AKA customer's) wishes! Maybe these ideals are naive, if so then I'm certainly in the wrong trade.

This would also incluce some basic assistance from the school in matters where I don't speak the language, such as getting a NIP and a bank account. Oh and also, when I have a contract for a guaranteed minimum monthly income, I don't expect an email telling me "by the way, December is special so we're cutting your pay by a third" !! Needless to say, I was not happy and got this resolved pretty damn quick! Which, of course, left my manage not speaking to me for 2 weeks! Except to shout if she thought I breathed at the wrong time!

This is the kind of thing that is annoying. I have no naive ideals of grandure, runing my own school with rows of happy smiling students paying very little and the happiest teachers earning millions. I simply expect some basics which are largely based around mutual respect.

As it happens, I've returned to working in IT building on my 10 years experience in the industry, where I will also teach the staff in the company. This means I can teach privately in the evenings and also do the volunteer work that I really want to do!

kaching! My twopennorth.

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]

I've heard many similar stories from the TEFL world, so many 'schools' realyl ripping the teachers off. They don't seems to realise that if they have happy teachers, they have happy students who come back.

I also had interviews recently, one school seemed really good, but, my instinct told me not to go near them. They said that they must give a good quality of service because they 'are expensive', but then offered the worst rates ever! Ok, not as bad as IH, but pretty bad. Then they offered a self employed options where they boasted one person had earned 5000 gross in one month. By my calculation, this person could have not slept that month. oh,, then there was the looong list of activities that I must perform *without pay*. Such as lesson prep (ok, that's standard), exam supervision, student assesment, weekely meetings (possibly an entire afternoon) and more.. Sorry, but I don't work for free! If you want me, you pay me, there's plenty of companies out there willing to do just that.

So, I'm a little disillussioned with the TEFL world. The only way to make a living is to own a school and I don't yet have the experience to do this. Maybe it's an easier living in a country that's no so expensive. It's back to IT for me and private teaching in the evening - which, lets face it, I'll make more on evening private lessons than in a full time teaching job.

phew. maybe we needed a new thread for this?

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]

I was happy to give extra and I usually do, but the student wanted to move on to another lesson so I complied with their request.

What I didn't appreciate was the manager shouting at me from the reception desk along the full length of the school! She has been a total b*t** since I told her I would not be seeking to renew my (barely legal) contract. If she has an issue with any aspect of my performance, the more acceptible way to deal with this would be to speak to me in private. She also did not listen to my explanation, nor that of the student who requested to finish early.

As the student mentioned in the next lesson, the manager's conduct was less than professional and did not protray a favourable image of the school.

On the other hand, maybe she's annoyed at my leaving because now she has to find a new native, over the Xmas period, in an area where there is a shortage (I have several job offers and interview requests in the last 2 weeks) and also that I'm leaving and so many students enjoy my lessons and appear to be quite literally queuing to join them!

One thing I have noticed for native speakers with CELTA in this area, the interviews often simply consist of "when can you start?"

Still, I'm going to enjoy my life in IT and will really enjoy teaching for a charity where I can concentrate on the quality of the teaching without worrying about money or managers :)

T

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]

hahaha, sounds like it, yes, the 'hotshots' from warsaw seem to be high school students of English!
What's really sad is that we're not permitted to modify the lesson plans to correct the obvious errors, even when there are obvious mistakes.

I only teach level 7 and above.. and only for 2 more weeks when I return to work in IT and only teach private and voluntary work.

Did you try asking for peer observations at your branch? I tried and oh boy I was nicely verbally assualted via email from the manager. This school obviously do not want their teachers to improve in any way! Sad really, because then on the other had I get shouted at for finishing a lesson a few minutes early and not giving the clients a good enough quality of service (despite finishing all the material, plus extras with the student getting nothing wrong!)

2 weeks to 'freedom' ! I will also be teaching in the IT company and will revert to CELTA methods! :))

T