Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]

@Alien, are you serious? lol

I mean, I know that there is this "incel" problem in Japan, for example, but it doesn't have anything to do with LGBT...

Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]

And there's another problem. Our technological and industrial progress has it's downsides - increased infertility. I've watched once a very detailed and extensive documentary on Planete about all kinds of substances produced by people that contribute to hormonal imbalance in women (and in men too, I imagine, but the focus was on female infertility). Artificial fertilizers, some plastic toys, plastic bottles, substances with which carpets and upholstered furniture is soaked with in order to make them non-flammable, cosmetics, etc.

And air pollution:

theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/17/air-pollution-significantly-raises-risk-of-infertility-study-finds

And we have some bad air in Poland... :/

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]

@Cargo pants, sure, and you "yank" could kill your sister in the process, "genius". It's good that you're not a police officer.

Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]


You're clearly not ignoring the fact that less children are getting born in many developed and developing countries (including China even) though. So, are you going to just complain about it and get nostalgic about the times when women were sitting at home, or are you going to propose some kind of solutions that will be acceptable not only to men, but also to women?


Then give me those numbers :) How many men in the whole world are doing menial, physical jobs and how many work as doctors, lawyers or scientists? Do you know?

And how many of those men doing those menial jobs would gladly not work and sit at home if they could afford it?


Are you sure that this is the only problem? I think that people in general in more developed countries are more likely to have less children than in poorer and more rural countries for more reasons than just women working. Women worked in the past too and they had kids. My grandma worked hard all her life on the farm and in the field and she raised three daughters.

People have higher excpectations these days, they care more about their kids and their well-being, their future, so they wait until they'll earn enough money to provide well for their kids. Developed societies become less rural and so people don't need to have so many kids (and can't have so many, because there's less living space in the cities).

Unless something really bad happens and we'll get back to Stone Age, progress won't stop. So, couples would have to make conscious decisions to have kids and have more kids then they would normally have these days. You can't make them do that, so how will you encourage them?

Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]


I didn't write that we should leave everything how it is now. On the contrary - I've even given you some solutions. Don't you like those solutions? Would you just prefer to shove us back into the kitchen? It's easier for you this way, huh? Well, sorry, but it's too late for that. Women changed and men will have to adapt to those changes or the developed societies will "die out".


Noone is getting that kind of money for staying at home with their own kids. The other spouse has to work.


Women are really only needed for bearing children. Fathers can take care of kids too. And if they suck at it, then they should learn not suck at it :)

Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]


I don't like the way you put it - it's antagonising.
There are plenty of women who have both kids and careers. Those careers may not be as stellar as men's, because those women had to make sacrifices for their kids that weren't required from their husbands, but women clearly manage to have both. If men can have both, then women should not be discouraged to have both either, because they may rebel (just like they did in the past :)).

Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]

@PolAmKrakow, you can look at Muslim countries and Africa to see where those traditional roles are getting them :) Where would you prefer to live - in Afghanistan or the US/Poland? That's sad that you overlook women's contribution to our societies and you don't care about women's potential - what they are giving and what they could give to the society.


If it worked, people wouldn't change it. It didn't work for women. Does it work 100% for women nowadays? Well, of course not. But societies evolve and people learn. Hopefully, people will find a way to make it work better. Adapt or die out, sorry.

@GefreiterKania, that would be nice if men would be more considerate towards their wives and help them out more with the kids and at home - then women wouldn't feel so burned out and they could enjoy both having kids and working.

It would also help if the government would solve problems (instead of creating them) longterm, like providing more nurseries, kindergartens, improving health service for pregnant women. It would help too if women giving birth were treated better and had more choice as to what is going to happen to them at hospitals. And if they could get back to their previous work after giving birth. My sister-in-law didn't get her job back, even though her boss promised her she will. My mother went to retirement earlier than she planned so she could take care of my niece, because my sister-in-law was certain she will have that job back. But her boss hired his son instead. My sister-in-law had problems with finding work once employers found out she has a small kid. One of the women that interviewed her asked her in the face what will she do if her kid will get sick. She answered that the kid will stay with the grandma. She wasn't hired anyway.


Somehow men can have it - they have both families and jobs/careers. Men have their cakes and eat it all the time. So why women have to keep making all the sacrifices? You can't make us "produce" children. So maybe it's time to make some changes, if you want your precious population not to die out.


The same thing could be said about many men. Are you telling me that if they could afford not to work and stay at home, they would still choose to work? How about you?

I do agree with you though that mothers and their work at home should be more appreciated and the society should work towards making things easier for them. Because there is no other way if we want the birth rates to go up. You can't force women to have kids, so you have to encourage them to have them. But you won't encourage them by claiming that the only thing they're needed for is bearing children and taking care of them and that the old system when women had no rights was better. This is demeaning and scary. We will fight against you if you try to shove us back into the Middle Ages.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


Of course I would use it - I would point a gun at him and tell him to get away from her and if he didn't listen or would charge at me I would blow his head off. And I don't have a little sister, btw.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


Yes, those particular lawyers are, not because they were defending him, but because of the manner in which they were doing that and how they were behaving in the courtroom, towards the judge, parents, victims. One of those lawyers is under investigation by Florida Bar for showing a middle finger to the camera at that courtroom.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


YES! THIS!

Yesterday I somehow stumbled upon YouTube videos of courtroom proceedings in the case of Nikolas Cruz who killed 17 people in Parkland high school and I'm still reeling from it. He killed them with legally bought AR-15 rifle. There were so many of those mass shootings in the US that I don't even remember which one was it - whether I watched news coverage about it or not. I've watched those kids that survived, parents of victims, the sickening lawyers of the killer...

Who in THE RIGHT MIND would wish THIS upon Poland???

@PolAm, I was being polite, because I have nothing against you, but you must be detached from reality if you think you can lecture Poles on gun laws. FIX YOUR country first and then lecture us, because you people FAILED your kids. You FAIL your kids every time one of those school shootings happen. You FAIL your fellow citizens every time one of those mass shootings happen in malls, churches, concerts or wherever.

And don't tell me that guns don't kill people, because they clearly do kill them in American schools. And don't tell me that it's because of mental health service crisis in the US, because we have it in Poland too. The difference is though that our kids don't get SHOT DEAD in schools in freaking mass shootings.

At this point I don't care anymore why it came to this insanity in the US, how it got to be so bad, I don't care about your conviction that you have some kind of "God-given right" to bear arms, I don't care about your gun history, I just know that I DON'T WANT THIS in Poland:

youtu.be/YOTX-CCoLtU

Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]


How come? During WWII women replaced men in work places, because men were away fighting the war, but when men came back women lost their jobs to men again and men in the US were earning more than ever, apparently:

pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/tupperware-work/

So, what happened? Since when women "had" to start to work?

Milo, I have an impression that some of you guys live in some kind of male La La Land. I'm sure many people (including men) would love not to work and live off money that would be falling from the sky lol, but that's fantasy. Real life can get ugly.

What if husband dumps the stay-at-home wife who never worked in her life? Will she be able to support herself and the kids only from alimonies? What if the ex-husband won't pay the alimonies? Or what if her husband simply dies? What then?

What about her retirement if she never worked?

Also, if women suddenly stopped working who would work as teachers at schools, kindergartens, as nurses, secretaries, hotel maids, cleaning ladies, caregivers, cashiers in Biedronka, hairstylists for women, manicurists, etc? You think that men would be so willing to wipe the asses of old people? And if not, would you expect women to do the jobs that men are unwilling to do and leave all the cool, fun, prestigious and high-paying jobs to men? If that's your take on this then, sorry, but... F U...

There's another problem. How would you feel if you stayed at home with kids and you'd have to ask your spouse for money? Every freaking time you needed something - like a kid asking a parent for pocket money? Would you like that? Of course, couples may resolve this in a less humiliating way - by having a joint account or sth, but in many cases it isn't resolved like that and wives have to ask their husbands for money. This often leads to toxic situations and financial blackmail, or even, as it's called in Polish: "przemoc ekonomiczna", because men use the power they have over their wives in such situation when she has no money of her own:

bankier.pl/wiadomosc/Nienawidze-od-20-lat-Ale-za-co-bede-zyc-Przemoc-ekonomiczna-niszczy-po-cichu-8063259.html

And, finally, women are people too. We have interests, passions and talents too. There are women who like to work, because they love what they do. We have the right to work too, not only you.

Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]

@PolAmKrakow, stating that women are better equipped to take care of children sounds pretty definitive though - you didn't use "most" then.

But the point I'm trying to make is that you sound like a hypocrite - on one hand you state that women are better equipped to take care of children and on other you complain that mothers are getting kids, the house and alimonies. So, why are you complaining if that's best for the kids?

Of course, there are exceptions - there are some bad mothers out there and if the father is the better option then he should get the kids, the house/flat and the alimonies. I think that's obvious.


Sorry, but I don't know anything about paying alimonies in the US. As far as I understand in Poland there's no fixed amount of money you have to pay - the amount in Poland is decided by the court on case to case basis depending on child's needs and the income and financial abilities of the parent who's paying the alimonies, etc.


Well, that's pretty obvious, if the father is normal and there's no reason to keep him away from the kids. I don't know about the US, but in Poland if the mother doesn't let the father see his kids he can take it to court and then the court puts specified obligations on the mother and if she still doesn't let him see them despite the court order, she will get punished:

krakow-rozwody.pl/co-zrobic-kiedy-matka-utrudnia-kontakty-z-dzieckiem/

Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]

Btw, my neighbour divorced a few years ago and went back to live with his mother (they live upstairs, above my flat) and the guy's son stayed with him, not with the mother. I don't know why. Maybe because the mother went to live in the UK and the boy was already a teen and had to finish his education in Poland. I feel sorry for the kid though, because his father seems to be an as*hole - walls are thin here and I could hear what he was yelling to his son. I hope the mother is better than his father at least...

Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]

@PolAmKrakow, but you gave a definitive answer yourself - according to you women are better equipped to take care of children and you stated that in most cases they should get primary custody.


But you just wrote the same thing that I did lol Does that make you a "leftist feminist"? :)


How do women "profit" from "simply having kids"?


PolAm, sorry, but you keep contradicting yourself. The laws lean towards the mother (do they really, though?), because, as you wrote yourself, mothers are better equipped to take care of children. So, for the laws and courts the priority is the good of children. Judging by what you wrote it's usually in the best interest of kids to stay with their mother. Not in mother's interest, not in father's interest, but in kids' interest. That's the most important thing - what's the best for kids, right?

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


That's simply not true, imho. If someone really wants to take up shooting as a sport or get a gun license for hunting, etc. they will get it in Poland. Apparently there was a significant increase in the gun permits being given in Poland in 2021 - 19 939 people got them in 2021 alone. Majority of them were for collectors (9 233), sports (6 tys. 806), hunting (3 676) and training related (113). Only 81 people got gun permits for self-defense.

If you want a gun for self-defense then that's different - you have to give a good reason to the police for that and I think it's better if it doesn't change.


I think it should first and foremost take into consideration common sense and situation in the country. Poland is a safe country, but there are, of course, situations in which I think getting a gun permit for self-defense should be fast-tracked - when someone's life is really in danger - if someone is persecuted by a stalker or is getting serious death threats, for example.


No way. That would create a pathology - the rich would be getting the permits fast and not those who need it the most.

Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]

@johnny reb, sorry, but your comment makes no sense. Grow up and stick to the topic (try not to focus too much on me again lol).

Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]

@Miloslaw, not native, rather mocking/sarcastic.

Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]


Then everyone who claims that fathers should be treated equally with mothers at family courts during cases concerning parental rights and should be getting kids after divorce is also either "retarded" or "extreme feminist".

Btw, in my opinion boys could be raised in such a way as to be more empathic, better developed emotionally and more nurturing. It would only benefit their future kids. Fathers are as important as mothers for children's development, maybe even more important for daughters than for sons. Many of the men from my father's generation are too cold, emotionally distant, bottled up, not involved in children's lives, indifferent, lazy with kids. Such parenting (or rather lack of it) hurts kids. It defenitely hurt me, especially as a girl and later as a grown woman. I remember how envious I was when I was watching American movies with fathers being close with their daughters, playing with them, spending time with them, supporting them, caring. That's a big boost to a girl's confidence, etc. I simply felt unloved by my father. Would you like your kids to feel that way?


I could say the same about myself... lol

Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]


Wait a minute, are you saying that taking care of and raising their own kids isn't "natural" for fathers??


Yes, that's also my observation.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


That's what we have police for. I doubt it can get any worse than in the 90's.


But we do know - I gave you a link to recent poll results (the poll was commissioned by a conservative newspaper) according to which 70% of Poles don't want the gun laws in Poland to change.

Here's the link in case you missed it:

wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/sprawdzili-czy-polacy-chca-dostepu-do-broni-wyniki-badania-zaskakuja/g95yg4l


23%, not 30%. There's no society where 100% of people agree on everything, but we live in a democracy and laws are usually made according to what majority wants. And 70% is a big majority.

Why don't you care about what majority of people in Poland want? Why do you guys try to impose your mentality on Poles? There's a different reality in Poland than in the US. Our laws reflect that. Poland isn't the US. It isn't Switzerland either...

Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]


To be honest, from my observation nothing changed that much in this respect in the last 30 years in Poland. My mother did stay home with me and my brother for a few years, but then she went back to work and we were left home alone - my mother asked our neighbour to check on us (I don't remember if he actually ever did that). The only couple in our block of flats where I grew up with a home-stay-mom were our neighbours next door - they had 6 kids with the seventh dying mysterious death when it was an infant (I think my mother suspected that she killed that baby). That mother of six would sit all day by the window and stare at people and then gossip about them with another neighbour. I remember how she was yelling at her kids. Their sons would steal apples from an orchard nearby and come to us to ask for money for cigarettes for their father... As you can imagine I didn't view them as a model family... 🙄

For me it was completely normal that women work. Even kind of expected...

Life / Poland's birthrate on the decline [480]




Nothing stops the concerned daddies from quitting their jobs and taking care of their kids. If enough men did that and became stay-at-home dads, women's wages would rise and one income would be enough to support a family, right? :D


Of course, ffs.


This may be an issue for some, I guess - I'm not sure how many women realise how important the biological clock is for women as far as getting pregnant and safe pregnancy is considered. There probably should be more education about this. 🤔

History / Poland and Britain started WW2 [356]

@jon357, it's not odd at all, you know very well why I mentioned it.


Exactly.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


That's not wishful thinking, but the reality we're living in Poland. Maybe it will change in the future (I hope not), but for now I don't see that happening.


I don't think so. This is the latest poll - from October 2022:

wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/sprawdzili-czy-polacy-chca-dostepu-do-broni-wyniki-badania-zaskakuja/g95yg4l

70% of Poles don't want the gun laws in Poland to be liberalised. 57,3% think that more lax gun laws would decrease their sense of security - it would make them feel less safe.

News / The Political Circus of Poland [309]

@pawian, ah, I see... Thanks :))

History / Poland and Britain started WW2 [356]


Sure, jon357:

latnet.org/org-blog/2022/1/27/holocaust-remembrance-day-never-forget-never-again

Why should we remember about the homosexual prisoners of Nazi concentration camps, right? 🙄🤦

News / The Political Circus of Poland [309]

Btw:


That's the dictionary translation of "granatnik", but is that the right term for what that police chief fired from in English? Judging by the photos, as far as I remember, it looked like an RPG... 🤔

News / The Political Circus of Poland [309]

@pawian ;D That's Google Translate's fault lol

News / The Political Circus of Poland [309]


grenade launcher even :):

businessinsider.com.pl/prawo/wybuch-granatnika-w-gabinecie-komendanta-glownego-policji-jakie-kary-przewiduje-prawo/xnl2q9n


Yes, my thoughts exactly! xD lol

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


I wasn't writing about gun ownership, but about training. You don't have to own a gun in order to learn how to use it. You can go to a shooting range and pay for training and practice there. It is estimated that there are around 450 shooting ranges opened to the public in Poland and they're being stormed by people wanting to learn how to use a gun since the RuSSian invasion of Ukraine began:

bankier.pl/wiadomosc/Polacy-siegneli-po-bron-i-oblegaja-strzelnice-8304667.html


If that was a common/serious problem in Poland I would probably be the first to get myself a gun. But it simply isn't. Usually the people who have to deal with such cases are police officers and they do have guns. But having a gun in Poland is one thing and using it - is another matter. Even police officers get into trouble because of using a gun during dangerous situations in Poland - I find this more worrying than gun ownership laws. I don't want Polish police officers to be afraid to use guns when it's necessary, especially when someone's life is in danger (most often theirs)...