Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

Friends,

I have been shown this forum and this thread by an American friend living in Poland. He perceives Polish as a hard language like most of you. Is it really so difficult?

I'm now fifty and have been learning English since I was sixteen. I've been using English for last twenty two years in my profession. I've been to large part of the world and tried to pick up some local languages. Still, I experience problems with using indefinite/definite English articles, applying proper tenses and vocabulary. Reading hundreds of English books had hardly improved my English; it is perceived as bookish and rather weak by native English speakers. Speaking English in places such as Texas, Philadelphia, Liverpool, North England always meant understanding problems. And I don't get most of slang.

Should you despair then on difficulties of Polish? On contrary, you shall be proud of your efforts. Poles are very friendly towards foreigners. I'd even say we're shy about foreigners and respect them according to the saying "Gość w dom, Bóg w dom" /The guest to the house is the God to the house/. Don't try analyzing the language up to the scientific level. Yes, it's true: If you ask someone here about rich and complex phrase (which is not in common use), we'll be trying to find all possible alternatives. This is futile gesture though. Nobody ask you to be Professor Miodek. Yes, if you address the audience with "jin-dovrah", there might be occasional laughter. However, your attempt to speak Polish will be appreciated.

Now, I'm not sure if the youth slang of today's Poland had been already addressed. Watch this funny video on YouTube and only read the subtitles:

youtube.com/watch?v=pazQoQbe8UY

The subtitles are current clubbing slang. Do you get it? You have to be aware that any native Pole would get the complete meaning of the subtitles. If you do not get it, don't worry. I do not understand Jive, either. ;-)

Carry on your good working!

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


I thought Greek was easy until I've been told there are five different Greek characters for "i". And I though I knew the Greek alphabet as an engineer....

Language / Polish slang phrases - most popular. [606]


'Cause he sticks to you as much as clay sticks to your shoes ;-)

At least such explanation was given in a Polish translation of Terry Pratchett's "Discworld" by Piotr W. Cholewa, and he knows what he's saying.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

Because you said Cyrillic was easy, and one could become proficient in reading Cyrillic within a week.
I happen to speak Russian and I can tell you knowledge of an alphabet does not have anything common with proficient reading. The good example is Greek. I thought I knew the alphabet so I could read Greek. I've tried with several words given to me by my Greek friend. Try with. If you think you can read it properly because you know the alphabet, you're wrong.

Same with Russian. You do not read "Vsyego dobrogo", although the Cyrillic alphabet suggests so, right?

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

Point taken, Ogien.

Now, I had been learning Russian for 10 years, that is, 4 grades in the primary school, 4 grades in "liceum" and then 2 years at the University. Since Russian was my second language I learnt first, I was quite enthusiastic about that and was decidedly not lazy. To be left with reading proficiency, weak speaking capabilities and almost no writing skill. You might say learning Russian should be a trifle for a Pole. It was not.

I just want to say Ogien no language is really easy unless you really need it.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

Can't read your nationalist gibberish, PolskiMoc.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

No need to quarrel with PolskiMoc, BratwurstBoy. PolskiMoc knows BETTER. PolskiMoc has BELIEF. It's pointless to discuss at such level, with "argumenty z dupy wzięte", as I would say.

The reasons of the fall of The Commonwealth of Both Nations are so simple if we look at the Poland of today:
1. Quarrel, quarrel, quarrel. "Where are two Poles, there are three opinions";
2. Abuse of democracy (yes, Poland was a democracy) in favour of anarchy;
3. Consumerism, not being able to sacrifice a bit of own welfare for the common good;
4. Narrow-mindedness, parochalism.

At the same time, neighbouring countries were building strong states with powerful armies...
-----
I'm also very surprised reading different posts of Crow, especially related to Silesia (which I found elsewhere on this forum).

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


Słuchaj, bracie. The Serbian population of Kosovo is 7%. The declared Silesian population in Upper Silesia is even smaller figure. If you were seriously concerned about the fate of the Serbian population of Kosovo, you'd fight for recognition of the Silesian nationality, as the principle of protecting minority rights. Your sole postulate is the Polish and the Serbian are Slavs, so they should stick together, regardless the actual situation is.

You know nothing about Silesia and the Silesians. Your claim about German interests in the Silesians is unanimous with the notorious opinion of J. Kaczyński on "crypto-Germans". Go to Silesia and say the same at a local pub... It would be roughly same as going to Edinburgh and saying that the Scottish are indeed English, and anybody opting for Scotland is the enemy of the UK.

You could also say that the British monarchs are crypto-Germans...

Yes, once Poland was large & powerful. My mother was born near to the former Romanian border. Do you think I would go and fight with the Ukrainians for Great Poland? Then you are very, very wrong.

Have you got my point?

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


What about the sabre (szabla/szablya)?

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

Exactly, BratwurstBoy.

Experts in the history of military could give more facts, however nobody doubts that Polish Hussars (equivalent of today's regiment of tanks) and the szabla are Polish military inventions.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


Pardon me? The Deluge ended in 1667, and the Vienna victory happened in 1683, with the peak of Polish military power ever.
Alliance with Russia was never sought throughout the history of Poland.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


You may even call me a crypto-German if you like.

You are saying Kosovo was the heart of Serbia. The word "was" is crucial.
Upper Silesia was Czech and it was German. It is not anymore. Many Upper Silesians fought for Poland in the Silesian Uprisings but many Upper Silesians were fighting for Germany, too

Please do not speak for the Zaolzie people, either. Have you ever met any Zaolzian? I have. Same as the Silesian, the Zaolzian are their own people. They speak Czech at work, they managed to have Polish street names in Cesky Tesin, and they speak their own lingo (neither Czech nor Polish) at home.

Silesian and Zaolzian just need to be left alone from any nationalists; they suffered from nationalists too long.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


My fault. Yes, such alliance was sought by some politicians.

Are you showing the Polish officer's sabre, 1919-1939?

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


"Porównaj język angielski książąt Charlesa i Williama". Sorry for correcting you.

Since Magdalena (ahoj!) is here, I'd like to refer to differences between Slavonic languages and problems Slavs experience learning next Slavonic language themselves.

I spent a number of years travelling to Czech Republic and Slovakia. Especially, Czech seemed so different! I was later explained the restoration of the Czech language in the 19th century was based on local dialects with strong avoiding of polonisms and germanisms (Am I right, Magdalena?). After couple of years, I started speaking broken Czech and Slovak. Actually, I was perceived a Slovak in Brno, and a Czech in Bratislava, due to mistakes made constantly.

After some time, I was in online/phone session with my Russian colleague. He preferred speaking Russian to English, so I joined him thinking it would be useful to refresh my Russian. At some moment, I wanted to tell him I'd need a minute to make some coffee. So I said: "Padazhdi minutochku, ya paydu i sdyelaju KAVU". After long while I could hear him speaking uneasily "Chto eta abaznachayet 'KAVU'?" ... long break, then "Ahhhh! KOFYE!". So much about language similarities.

Also, anybody thinking high-Czech is a modern language is wrong. Oppositely, the language is based on ancient Slavonic words, say "kovo", "ocel", "lahev" or "strecha" while Polish uses borrowed words such as "metal", "stal", "butelka" or "dach"... Right Magdalena?

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

I can only speak for myself.
Learning English was fun. Just because it was the "brave new world" will all words, grammar, pronunciation different. Russian was also much different, starting with the alphabet.

Now, learning speaking proper Czech, and especially write properly would be real pain. The pronunciation is killing for a Pole. I'm not unable to pronounce the work "kriz" (cross) properly at all! Then, accenting and different stresses at each word. Finally, the grammar that is so different from the Polish one!

Reading Czech books means a lot of fun, though. I started with Svejk many years ago and read now whatever I can get.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

Cała przyjemność po mojej stronie, lyzko!

When we are at it, Czech is at least a logical language. Let's take the phrase "A smith forges metal":
Czech: Kovar kova kovo
Polish: Kowal kuje metal ;-)

I have to admit I'm experiencing problems with the declension of "książę" and "ksiądz" myself, especially in plural...

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

Sokrates


Nothing is granted forever. Czasy saskie są faktem. The Saxon era cannot be denied.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


I mean, things started degrading after the Sobieski's reign. The Constitution of 3rd May was made far too late.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

Why not Austria?

Language / Polish versions for English words? ! [34]

FInol


Some of us say "esesman" ;-)

I don't think anglicisms are wrong. English itself is based on so many languages, why Polish should be different?

There are at least four nations attempting to make their own words for everything. This is why the French say "ordinateur", the Swedes say "dator", the Czech say "pocitac", and the Hungarian say "szamitosgep", while the words "komputer" or "pecet" are so simple...

I like Hungarian words very much. It is so simple to guess that "szamitosgepgazda" means the PC administrator. Szamitos is a digit, gep is a device, the gazda is the Tatra landlord ;-)

Language / Polish versions for English words? ! [34]

My personal (not scientific) opinion is the invented words are really needed for nations afraid of dissolving their identity. Old, mature languages are developing by merging foreign words. Just consider:

1. Metal (it should be kowo)
2. Stal (it should be ocel)
3. Butelka (it should be łagiew)
4. Dach (it should be strzecha)
5. Pech (it should be nieszczęście (?))
6. Giermek (actually it is a child in Hungarian)
...

If by chance Magdalena is reading this thread, I'd like to know her opinion on how it is in the formal and the folk Czech. It could be interesting. I was very happy to buy "camelky" (Camel cigarettes), listening to "cedecky" (CDs) and paying with "kreditka" (credit card) on my stays in the Czech Republic.

Language / Polish versions for English words? ! [34]

I will try and swear I do not look to any dictionary or any translator now:
Pravopis - prawodawca
Krasopis - not sure
Životopis - autor biografii
Zeměpis - autor książek o różnych krajach? Not sure here
Divadlo - teatr
Spisovatel - pisarz
Těsnopis - no idea
Kolo - rower. The Czech word is very logical. I don't know why Polish kolarz rides a rower ;-)

What I would like to get the most would be "cena divaku" and the introduction to a seminar "Vazeny Damy a Panove" is just fantastic!

You must know this, I experienced this myself:

A Polish leads the Czech to sklep but the Czech thinks it would be a pivnice. No, but wine is stored in a Polish piwnica, and the Czech buys at sklad. We Polish store coal at skład. The shop sells "smiseny zbozi" in the Czech Republic, same shop offers "ruzny tovar" in Slovakia, and the Polish goes to "sklep spożywczo-przemysłowy. A Pole parks his car at a parking, the Czech uses parkoviste and teh Slovak parkovisko. If I wanted to say do widzenia to you Magdalena, I'd start with dovid... then bite my tongue and say nashledanou! ;-)

It's at least good I can buy struny both in your country and in Poland, although I'd better know they could be motane or hladke ;)))

Nice thing you told me about the difference between the informal and folk Czech. I was not aware of that.

Ahoj!

Language / Polish versions for English words? ! [34]

Tough language! My feeling is using words borrowed from Latin/Greek makes life somewhat easier, still I understand the idea behind the formal Czech.

Mluvnice - Mównica/rostrum? Rzeczniczka/speaker?
Zákon - prawo/law
Přírodopis - biology! Now I get it!
Vlastenec - I saw this word somewhere in Svejk... Vlast would be the power, government. No idea, I would guess from context.

Language / Polish versions for English words? ! [34]

I need go back to the blackboard ;-)))))))))))))

"Past za vlast"... sure!
--
The post exchange between me and Magdalena could help the original poster understand how difficult a language with no borrowed words is. Just to extinguish the Czech debate, I'd like to ask Magdalena if a native Warsawer could master Czech.

What you think about the language here? What proficiency can you hear?

nk.art.pl/makenzen/makenzen_zatimco.mp3

Language / Polish versions for English words? ! [34]

Aaaarrrrgh! ;-))
Look up the edited post above.

Language / Polish versions for English words? ! [34]


Yep.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


The problem is: If one wants to learn English from a native speaker, ask yourself a question from what country/region ;-) I once was trained by a Scouser who admitted himself English was his second language. I was getting maximum 40% of what he was saying ;-)

My spoken English quality varies with the weather and depends what country/region was the person with whom I spoke lately. My curse is adaptiveness... At the top form my English is totally accent-less. If this happens, I'm so glad...


Strè prst skrz krk, I like the language very much, too.

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


I cannot hide my smirk listening the Dutch "v" pronounced as "f" when English is spoken. Oh, a "fessel" sounds so funny! ;)

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

Koala


I completely agree with you. I took a drinking walk to several pubs in Cambridge and was fraternizing with the locals, most of them being English teachers. Once I wanted to be witty and addressed one of the ladies with "Oi!" This was really a blunder...

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


Good!

I'm sure you know this one already?
youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dABo_DCIdpM