History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Hi Bratwurst Boy,

I've seen you allude to this on a number of occasions, but I wonder if you could explain more fully in what way you believe interwar Poland and the Polish government was equally or more nationalistic than that in Germany, as per your quote below.


Personally, I think the Roman Dmowski and the National Democratic Party offer similarities with Adolf Hitler and the German Nazi party, especially in Nationalism. However, it's clear, ideologically, Hitler held more extreme views in relation to his nationalism, for example; on minorities, where it could be said that they held broadly similar opinions, the actions they took, or in Dmowski's case planned to take, differ widely. To put it frankly, they may have agreed on boycotts of Jewish goods, and I can also see Dmowski passing purity laws, but I can't ever imagine Dmowski setting up extermination camps.

More importantly, Polish politics of the later interwar years was for more complex than that of Germany and not dominated by a sole party proclaiming nationalism. Jozef Pilsudski being the obvious counterbalance to Dmowski. Pilsudski was in many ways a nationalist , but to my mind, it's incomparable to liken him to the nationalist fervour that had gripped Germany by 1935. Let's not forget, the Nuremberg Laws had been introduced in Germany by 1935. Ignacy Moscicki, brings more complexity and even less nationalism to politics of interwar Poland. Overall, there was a large amount of nationalism present in 1930's Polish politics, but it wasn't the single, dominant policy, as it was in Germany.

I wonder if you might also say a little more about


Are you suggesting Poland provoked Germany into WW2? If so, in what ways specifically?

History / Poland's undying debt to Polonia [76]

I'm not a Polonia basher. As I said in another thread I think emigrants can often, quite rightly see themselves as Polish, however comments like this

'By overwhelmingly supporting PiS (70%), Polonians entitled to vote in Polish elections are setting an example for their misguided Old Country compatriots who have fallen for the lies, scams and cliques of tricky Don’s and his pals.'

show how out of step emigrant enclaves can become with the values that Polish society as a whole now holds. There's a saying in Ireland that Irish Americans are more Irish than the Irish. It's both a compliment and a criticism. It acknowledges that emigrant communities are often strongholds for traditional Irish culture that many people in Ireland lament losing, but it is also a criticism, that the community is often focused on an idea or individual acts of irishness; irish dancing, trad music nights because the actual lives they live are no longer Irish. They are attached to an Ireland that once existed not the Ireland of today.

History / Poland's undying debt to Polonia [76]

No, society of now is not always right, I agree, however I struggle to see how someone who lives outside the country could have a grasp on the issues that really affect Poles everyday.

If you don't live here I'm not sure you can understand what Polish people's opinions are on whether doctor's should be able to write their own prescriptions, how much Biedronka has hiked up the price of flour and whether the new train station was a waste of money. To understand these things you need to be listening to the people who live them everday, to talk to friends; hear conversations on the street and on the tram and be reading the news and watching the TV. You need all these things and more to really understand the pulse of the country.

Like in many countries, the majority of people care most about the issues that affect them everyday. I'm not sure emigrants have, can have a very good grasp of this.

Emigrants lecturing people who actually live in the country about what is the right or wrong government seems a little cheeky. These are the people who have to live with the government they elect and the decisions that they will then make. Emigrants, for the most part, don't.

History / Poland's undying debt to Polonia [76]

P3 I think that's about the best attitude you can have.

There's a lot of negativity on this forum about Polonia and in general I don't agree with it. In fact, I agree with many of the points originally made by Polonius, but I think the final one is the sort of comment that helps those who dislike emigrants to write them off as out of touch.

You should definitely come to Poland. There is a lot to like here.