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Posts by 1jola  

Joined: 23 Sep 2008 / Male ♂ 		Last Post: 24 Aug 2013
Threads: Total: 14 / Live: 1 / Archived: 13
Posts: Total: 1875 / Live: 401 / Archived: 1474 		From: Warsaw
Speaks Polish?: yes

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1jola   
18 Feb 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

Fiish,

We learned that the ghettos were established by the Germans. They were run by the Judenrat. They were policed by the Jewish police, who were very cruel to their fellow men. In 1942, the deportations started. The Jewish police helped the Germans to load the trains to Treblinka. If you are Jewish, you might want to drop the subject, or you will find out things you don't want to know.

Auschwitz was established for Poles in 1940. Two years later they started shipping Jews there. Earlier, it was stated that 4 million Jews died there. Now we know that that figure was incorrect by about 3 million.

BTW, we write Polish not polish. The second one is a verb or a noun.
1jola   
19 Feb 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

I think he has two computers.

The Jewish Order Police and the Polish "Blue" Police played a key role in the smuggling carried out through the walls. The Jewish policemen found it to be a profitable business, whilst the Polish police, were also able to make a profit out of the smuggling."

So? Without smuggling the people would have starved. And where would the Jews get their weapons for their riot in April 1943?

It is claimed that the Polish Blue Police were forced to collaborate with the Germans or face death but there is no documenatry evidence to support this claim.

You are sad. Did you come up with that one all by yourself? Try this:

In October 1939, General Governor Hans Frank ordered the mobilization of the pre-war Polish police into the service of the Germans. The policemen were to report for duty or face the death penalty.[3]
Hempel, Adam (1987). Policja granatowa w okupacyjnym systemie administracyjnym Generalnego Gubernatorstwa: 1939-1945. Warsaw: Instytut Wydawniczy Związków Zawodowych. p. 83.

It should be noted that some officers of the Polish Blue police were awarded the Righteous Among the Nations award for their help in rescuing Polish Jews.

Yes it should. Also:

A significant part of the police personnel belonged to the Polish underground resistance organization Armia Krajowa[15], mostly in the counter-intelligence of the Home Army and the National Security Corps.[16] Some estimates are as high of 50%.[17] Blue Police followed German orders reluctantly[18][11] and that the officers had little choice but to obey their orders or face death.[8] The Blue Police often disobeyed German orders or even acted against them[11], and some of its officers were ultimately awarded the Righteous Among the Nations

The story of the 13's like that of the Polish Blue Police,

It isn't. 13 and Żagiew were Jewish Gestapo agents. Volunteers.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_13

The group[4] vied for control of the ghetto with the Judenrat and infiltrated the Jewish opposition within the ghetto.[5]

A Jewish man recording events:

"Yesterday, the third of August they slaughtered Zamenhof and Pawia Streets. They did not confiscate houses, but blockaded the entire block for expulsion. The SS killers stood guard while the Jewish police worked inside the courtyards. This was a slaughter in proper style¬- they had no pity even on infants and nurslings. All of them, all, without exception, were taken to the gates of death." Scroll of Agony, p.398 ¬

"There is weeping and wailing in every house.

"At the beginning, the time of negotiations, a directive was issued to the Judenrat to deport 6,000 a day; in point of fact they are now deporting close to 10,000. The Jewish police, whose cruelty is no less than that of the Nazis, deliver to the Stawki Street more than the quota to which the Judenrat obligated itself." Scroll of Agony, p.384

"Sometimes there are several thousand people waiting a day or two to be transported because of the shortage of railroad cars. Word has gotten around that the Nazis are satisfied that the extermination of the Jews is being carried out with a requisite efficiency. Their deed is being done by the Jewish slaughterers." Scroll of Agony

Do they teach this in school?
1jola   
19 Feb 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

1jola: Do they teach this in school?

They certainly did in mine. Apparently they didn't in yours (if you actually got any kind of education).

They taught you about Jewish Gestapo agents in school. Right.

“At the beginning, the time of negotiations, a directive was issued to the Judenrat to deport 6,000 a day; in point of fact they are now deporting close to 10,000. The Jewish police, whose cruelty is no less than that of the Nazis, deliver to the Stawki Street more than the quota to which the Judenrat obligated itself.” Scroll of Agony, p.384

This was also forced down your throat during the Holocaust lessons.

But you probably would rather talk about Polish concentration camps.

You more likely learned this version:

"Obstacles to Resistance
Resistance groups sometimes encountered hostility from the Jewish council (Judenrat) of a ghetto, which feared that the discovery of arms or the flight of Jews to the forest would provoke harsh reprisals from the Germans in accordance with their announced principle of "collective responsibility," whereby the whole community would be punished for any infractions of German regulations. For example, the Jewish council in Nowogrodek was opposed to Jews escaping from the ghetto; here the Jewish police, which was set up to assist the Jewish council in enforcing compliance with German regulations, reportedly used to hide the shoes of Jews they suspected might flee."

That's some funny stuff, eh?
1jola   
19 Feb 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

Do you have this book? Does page 83 reprint this Frank oder document or is it just a reference to another reference?

So you claim this is a myth. You have seen my reference, which is a book on the subject, now show me yours.

If as you say the Polish Blue Police were there under pain of death they weren't forced to be involved the brutal exploitation of the ghetto inhabitants. They volunteered themsleves into it.

We are discussing ghettos. The largest one was in Warsaw. In it, the Polish police was limited to guarding the gates. The Jewish ghetto police and Jewish Gestapo took care of the brutal exploitation of the ghetto inhabitants and rounding people up for Treblinka. As we have seen they often exceeded their quotas. You are not familiar with the subject.

1jola: So? Without smuggling the people would have starved.That is probably an acceptable position for you to adopt, but not for a moral person!

I am immoral and you are not familiar with this subject either. My grandfather gave his wedding band for a few plums during the evacuation of Warsaw. You can't eat gold, brainiac.
1jola   
19 Feb 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

Bzibzioh: Interesting. Are you picking your nationality depending on the weather or there's another key to your madness?

I'm still considering which nationality I want to be if I want to be any nationality at all.

Maybe you should just make aliyah.
1jola   
19 Feb 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

sjam: That is probably an acceptable position for you to adopt, but not for a moral person!

You have to remember that to Jola 'they are only Jews': they aren't proper humans, just untermenschen.

What personal abuse?
1jola   
19 Feb 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

Ordinary people were involved in smuggling. The risk was high, and so were the prices. You seem to want to say something, but just don't know how to do it.

quote=sjam]
1jola: You have seen my reference, which is a book on the subject

You just copied and pasted a reference you found to a book; not the page itself from the book which shows Franks order document. If anyone has this, which I don't, scan page 83 and post it please.

Do you have any sources for your info, or is it just your invention?
1jola   
19 Feb 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

I wonder how much gold Irena Sendlerowa demanded to help the hundereds of Polish Jews she saved.... none!

Do you get your food for free? What was the penalty for smuggling? What was the penalty for aiding Jews?

In fact, the Jews in the ghetto were working very hard for the Germans for the first 3 years of the war. They policed themselves. The Jewish police was extremely brutal. The Jewish Gestapo agents were turning in Jews and Poles who were helping Jews. This no one wants to talk about. Polish concentration camps and Polish smugglers?! Like I said, you would have to read the diaries from thee ghetto to get an idea of the extent of Jewish collaboration with the Germans. Do that now.
1jola   
19 Feb 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

The topic which nobody wants to talk about is Prince's anti-semitic lie that the commanders of the post-WWII Polish concentration camps "live in Israel and claim to be Israelis not Polish". What do you think? Is Prince right? If so, please post the names he will not post and explain how two of the three camp commanders we have named lived and died in Poland.

No. That is all you want to talk about on every thread. If you don't have anything to say about Auschwitz or the Ghetto, beat it.
1jola   
19 Feb 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

This is an interesting book.

Am I a Murder?: Testament of a Jewish Ghetto Policeman (the original title is "A History of a Jewish Family During German Occupation") by Calel Perechodnik is an interesting account by a twenty-seven year old ghetto policeman in Otwock, a town near Warsaw. Perechodnik began his memoir on May 7, 1943, while hiding in the home of a Polish woman in Warsaw. The memoir, which is primarily a confession of the guilt he feels for his responsibility in bringing about the deportation of his wife and two year old daughter and their subsequent death in Treblinka, is unique among Holocaust testimonies and is extremely thought provoking. Perechodnik's account shares his profound sense of guilt for his inability to save his wife and child although that was the primary reason for his decision to become a ghetto policeman in early 1941. His description of the deportation on August 19, 1942, at the Umschlagplatz is chilling. The picture of his wife and daughter, sitting with the other victims as he carries out his duties, creates a surreal, circus-like scene that is intensified as he loads his boxcars. In relation to the previously mentioned comments by Viktor Frankl about the freedom of individuals in making decisions, it is interesting to compare the choices of Perechodnik, who carries out his duties at the Umschlagplatz, and his friend and fellow officer Abram Willendorf, who removes his police armband and joins his family in their wait for death. Perechodnik mentions several times his admiration for Willendorf, as well as for Janusz Korczak, who chose to die with the children under his care, but, sorrowfully, confesses that his fear of death prevented him from making the right decision.

academic.kellogg.edu/mandel/collins_rev.htm
1jola   
19 Feb 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

Pay attention to the second paragraph.

"Of the 318 people working for Ganzweich, 300 formed the “police force,” [not to be confused with the much larger Jewish order police which reported to the Jewish council], eight were employed as drivers, motor-car mechanics and in similar honest occupations, and the rest were lawyers, who formed a court that went through the legal motions of trying people guilty of profiteering and blackmarketeering. In fact, only a few small bakers, butchers and smugglers were heavily fined or kept in The Thirteen’s prison until they paid up. The 300 policemen performed the functions of an American gangster’s hoodlums and with their help Ganzweich forced all the important businessmen in the ghetto, irrespective of whether they were honest or dishonest, to pay him protection money, which he shared with his Gestapo patrons.

As practically everything needed in the ghetto had to be smuggled in, Ganzweich’s protection racket also extended to this vital activity. Before any article could be brought into the ghetto, bribes had to be paid to the Polish police, the ghetto police and to officials of the German Crminal Police, and even then there was no guarantee that it would reach the ghetto, for a German gendarme patrolling around its walls might seize it. However, if one paid protection money to The Thirteen, the article was certain to reach the ghetto without any other bribes being paid."

70 Reuben Ainsztein, The Warsaw Ghetto Revolt (New York: Holocaust Library, 1979), 9–16, 88; Reuben
Ainsztein, Jewish Resistance in Nazi-Occupied Eastern Europe (London: Paul Elek, 1974), 557–63.

So who was extorting who?
1jola   
19 Feb 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

The Potulice concentration camp was established during World War II by German state authorities in occupied Poland in Potulice near Nakło. It is notable as a detention centre for Polish children that underwent the Nazi experiment in forced Germanisation.

Central Labour Camp Potulice (Polish: Centralny Obóz Pracy w Potulicach) was a detention centre for Germans and Poles established by Polish Communist authorities after the end of World War II in Potulice, in place of the former German Nazi Potulice concentration camp. The camp was in operation since 1945 until 1950.

Harry, can't you read?
1jola   
19 Feb 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

1jola: You operate with no sources whatsoever, pumpkin.

Had to wait until I got home as this is not one of your copy and paste sources.

As if writing out a few lines from a book carries more weight. You silly man. I'm still waiting for your source of the lie you posted that Polish police were volunteers.

Answer this. Which police force did more damage to the ghetto population? Granatowa or the Jewish ghetto police?
1jola   
20 Feb 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

Sjam,

I'd like to continue our conversation on another thread perhaps. This one is just getting tired. Harry is spamming again. Jewish posters do that when they find the topic uncomfortable, with the Jewish Gestapo agents and all.

BTW, some of my posts were deleted too. A mod told me not to post too long of passages of text. You know us Polaks, we never read the rules.
1jola   
20 Feb 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

I am not in the slightest bit uncomfortable with discussing Jewish Gestapo agents.

Then why are you not discussing it on a thread that is called "Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto?"

If you want to discuss what you only call "Polish concentration camps"(sic), which you repeatedly "discuss" on many threads, why don't you start your own thread.

Your whole approach to the subject is making you a fool on this forum and I hope you will get widder attention. After all, you depend on Poles for your livelyhood. People are telling you over and over that to call Stalinist communist camps Polish camps is about as accurate as calling the Nazi camps Polish camps. If you insist, you might find yourself in trouble in this country.

Now, start a thread on the topic you want to discuss and go there.

Buh, bye.
1jola   
4 Mar 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

Germany will give 1 million euros for badly needed restoration work at the Auschwitz death camp museum in neighboring Poland, where more than one million Jews perished during World War Two

Since only Jews perished there, it is sort of a Jewish cemetary. One would think Israel would be concerned and help maintain it.
1jola   
4 Mar 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

The ironies of history... built by Poles (as an army barracks), extended by Germans, (partly) destroyed by inmates and (partly) dismantled by Germans, rebuilt by Poles (as a museum) and now refurbished/restored by Germans.

Maybe you are not familiar with this story.

"...foreign help still constitutes only 1-3% of the museum's annual $10m budget - barely enough to cover day-to-day operations, including paying the museum's 250 staff, let alone conservation work.

This falls far short of the $100m the museum says it needs to carry out vital tasks, such as preserving crumbling barracks, creating a new exhibition and building specialised storage facilities.

"The international community has not done enough," said 92-year-old Holocaust survivor and treasurer of the Auschwitz Museum budget committee, Kalman Sultanik.

"Germany in particular has not done enough. Whatever Germany does is not enough - not for the survivors, definitely not for Auschwitz."

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7800397.stm

Maybe 1jola is a hapless victim of Jewish propaganda that only Jews died there or maybe was just an antisemitic retort???

The Ynet article only mentioned Jews. Is it propaganda? No, it is a lie.

Only Jews perished ther you must be joking.

Did you read the article?

If the Jews put money in i wouldnt be surprised if they start charging entry fees.

The Jews don't run museums in Poland.

sjam:
Maybe 1jola is a hapless victim of Jewish propaganda that only Jews died there or maybe was just an antisemitc retort???
No, he's just repeating what he was taught when he was young.

What was I taught when I was young, genius?

Remember that 1Jola is really Jewish and so slips up occasionally in his attempts to act like an anti-semitic Pole.

Keep up pissing me off.
1jola   
4 Mar 2009
History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto? [623]

I imagine that as Jewish Poles, your parents had quite fixed ideas about the events

What would be those fixed ideas?

There really is no need for you to get angry about people knowing your ethnic origins. I'm sure that if you really didn't want people to know, you wouldn't have posted your origins here for all to see.

In fact I did post my origins. I posted that I am a Pole and a Roman Catholic.

You, on the other hand posted that you claim no nalitionality. Truthfully, you are the first person I have heard to say something ridiculous like that in all my life.