History / Polish-German alliance. [489]


JulietEcho was talking generally and you focused on specific actions of individuals. Yes Brits fought in Poland but they were the few that slipped through the Stalin Ass kissing net cast by the allies. The British Government did not make any official order to send in British troops to help Poles fend off the germans or the russians. They, one way or another found themselves fighting with the Poles - bravely -and gave their lives. The allies failed to stop the slaughter of 250,000 men women and children during the Warsaw uprising. 9000 children died in 60 days. Read below.

warsawuprising.com/paper/times_online.htm

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History / Polish-German alliance. [489]


Every country including Poland had it's social problems - the Brits expelled their Jews a long time ago - but neither murdered...

There was no need for Poland to merge/join forces with Germany because germany was already stealing Polands ideas anyway:)

By 1938 Poland had one of the most advanced (first all metal) fighter aircraft. They could not extract the power they wanted from the engine and so to keep up with the german competition, they bent the wings to strengthem them and allowed the plane to dive, which increased it's speed and made it more effective in catching german planes.

Later the stuker dive bomber appeared. Hmmmm...

...same when the Polish bomber was made in the early 30's. The Polish Bomber was launched and then the German bomber appeared afterwards. Hmmmmm...

Here is the Polish fighter & Polish Bomber and below them the German ripoff...

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History / Polish-German alliance. [489]


By this I presume you mean that Hitler ordered 7 german criminals to be shot and dressed as Polish soldiers in order to fake a Polish attack on the German radio station as an excuse to invade Poland????????

Blitzkreig was also rippedoff by the Germans. During WW1 Poland had also been forced to fight in the trenches during her occupation and suffered the slow advances of trench warfare. After the war Germany, France and England were exhausted but Poland and Russia were up fighting eachother again in 1920. The Polish forces learned lessons from the trenches and now wanted a new form of quick warfare to strike at the heart of the invading russian army, now close to Warsaw. The Poles were light and mobile and surrounded the russian forces very quickly, confusing them and suddenly defeating them. Charles de Gaulle was a young officer fighting with the Poles and was very impressed by this new method of fighting and wandered what it would be like motorised. He wrote a document on it . Later Hitler read this and put it to action. Hmmm...


Gdansk or "Danzig" is not a German city. It was taken by Germany for a while but it was returned. Here is a map of the area around 1000AD showing the original borders of Poland - pretty much as they are today. Pomerania (Pomorze) meaning by the sea in Polish was inhabited by slavic kashubians and Prussia in the east was inhabited by slavic pagans who worshiped the snake.

Just in case you didn't know.

Click image to enlarge

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History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

Can you give an example when Nikolayevich put his theory in action before 1920?
Before Piłsudski there was only trench warfare. Nikolayevich learned from Piłsudski as did DeGaulle

"The most important role, however, was assigned to a relatively small, approximately 20,000-man, newly assembled "Reserve Army" (also known as the "Strike Group," "Grupa Uderzeniowa"), comprising the most determined, battle-hardened Polish units and commanded personally by Piłsudski. Their task was to spearhead a lightning northward offensive, from the Vistula-Wieprz triangle south of Warsaw, through a weak spot identified by Polish intelligence between the Soviet Western and Southwestern Fronts"

"Piłsudski's plan was strongly criticized, and only the desperate situation of the Polish forces persuaded other commanders to go along with it. Though based on reliable intelligence, including decrypted Soviet radio communications, the plan was termed "amateurish" by high-ranking army officers and military experts who were quick to point out Piłsudski's lack of formal military education. When a copy of the plan fell into Soviet hands, Soviet commander Mikhail Tukhachevsky thought it a ruse and disregarded it."

Poland defeated Russia in 1920 thanks to Piłsudski's "lightning offensive" the first of it's kind and a precursor of the Wehrmacht's Blitzkrieg

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]


If my rented 4 bedroom house is taken over by 4 germans - the house is full
of germans - but it's still MY house :):):)


I said Poland invented Blitzkrieg - not developed Blitzkrieg. Ok - lets see:-

The UK persuaded Poland to send one third of her troops on leave just before the invasion so as not to provoke Hitler.

Germany was more industrialised and mechanised. It developed it's army secretly in violation of previous agreements.

It invaded Poland with no warning and Poland had no time to react - and when she did she was knifed in the back by Russia.

German soldiers used human shields (women and children) when they could not get through Polish defenses and prevented Polish counter attacks.

ENOUGH for ya old boy????

However - despite all this - the Polish tackticks were still apparent:-

"The Polish cavalry charge impressed the Germans and caused a delay in the offensive of the German 20th Motorised Infantry Division which considered a tactical retreat. This was however prevented by personal intervention of Gen. Guderian, who in his memoirs stated that he encountered his staff wearing helmets, preparing an anti-tank gun for a possible Polish cavalry attack, and that the panic of the first day of war was overcome quickly."

The german army had the advantage of surprise - otherwise they would have been routed by the Polish forces:);):0


If you want to play that game - FINE!

We both know that human civilisation came from Africa:);) Humans travelled from Africa up to Europe - through Europe and up to Scandinavia.

We both know that the Germanic tribes came down from Scandinavia:):) However - as your little map shows, the red area shows settlement from the north @ approx 750BC:):)

Therefore before 750BC there were no germanic tribes in the area which is now Poland:):) and yet human civilization had passed there previously:):) on the way up to Scandinavia. Right? So who was there before the Germanic tribes came down and drove them to the east around 500BC? YES - YOU ARE CORRECT - SLAVS! LOL!

Otherwise you are saying that human civilisation travelled up to Scandinavia, developed into germanics and then came back down to Europe to find a completely empty Europe and just strolled in - becuase there was nothing but germanic tribes in Euriope around that time. GAGAGooGAAOO~#@~~##


No but Lubeck and Rostock used to be:)


Every pack has to have a joker LLLOOOOOOLLLLLL!!!!!!!

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]


So why did London guarantee Polands independents just before WWII - and give her false hope - and suggest that she had something to fight for?

The Polish troops in London begged the UK generals to be parachuted close to warsaw so they could help the warsaw uprising but UK lot refused so as not to upset Stalin. Generally thats what JulietEcho is banging on about. I assume she does not have the time/energy to aknowledge/appreciate/thank every brit that ended up somehow fighting (bravely) in Poland (even thought they deserve it). Brits fighting in poland were mostly shot down airmen, escapees from german camps and troops on missions who got trapped there etc. (still brave men)

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]


Absolutely - you know those germans are very pushy tenants:) I beleive they do the same with deck chairs and poolside chairs:)


Thats because its a map showing G-E-R-M-A-N-I-C tribe movements.
Also, as the germs moved in the Slavs moved out. The slav tribes in the area of modern day Poland were called polonian slavs cos they farmed the planes (pole in polish) of central Poland, which was named after the planes - hence 'Polonia'. TADAAA!!!!

The Polonians were tall lethargic peoples and were not that bothered for a fight so scarpered when the big hairy germanics turned up on their doorstep going "uga booga!!!"


yees I know...red was around 750BC, orangy colour around 500BC-1AD etc. This merely shows the grounds gained by the germs from the slavs.


No - some Russian guy was trying to kill my grandpa cos he lived in eastern poland.
Not still fighting the war - just prejudice.
Poland never loses - just goes underground for a while only to emerge again with it's honour and dignity intact.

Look I have maps too! :)
1) Inhabitants going back to 700BC
2) Slavic genetics aroung Europa (50% around modern day Poland) could quite possibly be controlling share me thinks :)

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History / Polish-German alliance. [489]


This must be on another forum title cos there is nothing about that on this forum title.


I dunno. Do you?
I'm talking in context of the whole WWII and you focus on specific things. You are preventing a debate here. All we know about is Dunkirk.


The Poles had their own aircraft which escaped and were parked up in Romania.
It was the man power that was denied.


Again - we both know that but Churchill was half the equation.


There are monuments to the fallen all around warsaw including brits. In the large park just east of the river is a monument to an RAF crew shot down and killed during WWII.

This is obvious and cannot be denied - and she knows that. She is debating in the whole context of WWII. Poland was sold out - you can't deny that.

PS. The truth about Sikorski's death was locked away in a secret file for X amount of years after WWII for resons of national security. Fare enough. Just recently this time expired and the Polish Government wanted the file from the Brits. The Brits extended the secret file for another 70 years - with no explanation or reason. Why?

History / The restoration of Polish cities from WW2 destruction [123]

These towns were in Germany before the war and were full of Germans. When the Russians advanced to Germany these towns were bombarded and destroyed to get rid of the German soldiers - just like Gdansk. Legnica was on the way to Dresden one of the main Russian advances. Legnica was shelled by Russians - Dresden was bombed by bomber harris to path the way for Red army. After the war these towns were already rubble - including Wroclaw. It's quote probable that the rubble was taken to Warsaw but warsaw had plently of rubble of it's own. The huge stadium over the river was made from rubble from the city. warsaw was not lacking in rubble.

A German general who was based in Krakow did not agree to the sensless distruction of the city and ignored hitlers order. Warsaw was not considered an important historical city.

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]


I wish you could do that in UK. I would get my stuff a lot quicker.

Genealogy / Does anyone have any relatives who served with 1st Polish Armoured Division (Gen. Maczek) [311]

A gift to you. You are abviously too ignorant to know about this. This Swedish band will educate you about typical Polish military mentality.

720 normal infantry with only rifles took on - and held
42,000 Wermacht Nazis for 3 days - who had 350 tanks, 657 mortars/howitzers and AERIAL SUPPORT!

The official record:

9,000 German casualties.
680 Polish Casualties.

General Guaderian wrote in his diary that there were only 9 German dead.
It is beleived that 9,000 German casualties was underestimated. More like
27,000 - hence the legend 40:1



As a bonus - this same band perform 40:1 in front of 70,000 Germans at a rock
concert. Sweet.

...

noimmigration - I just can't wait to hear your response...:) (you twat)

UK, Ireland / Why are Polish people, especially women, so disrespectful toward the English? [437]



The arrogance is spectacular.
So you think tourism means going to an ancient city full of churches - a place considered sacred by Poles - and getting pissed with yer mates, mocking locals because they can't speak English, pulling your trousers down and mooning nuns, urinating up a 1000 year old church, acting like animals with zero repect for your surroundings and host culture - because you think you are better - you have the right to do this - because you are British.

You don't get it - and unfortunately you never will.


...oh and look at what other threads Miss Natalie E has been replying to...

Do you think that Polish people are rude?
Are Polish girls "gold diggers"?

Nataliee
Oh yes they.You should of seen that one coming. They are arrogant penny pinching, disrespectful gold diggers. I have had a polish friend who i had to get rid of she tryed to use my house like a hotel when i let her stay here once. Then lost her mind and got really angry at me when i cut her off because of it i think she thought she had me pegged as a permantant place to use as a hotel for her and her bf when she was in england. I have also had a polish female lodger who told me she was going to pay me £50 less rent a month because i removed my own vacum from the house, which i left in the beginning out of kindness for a month or 2!

Oh and yesterday i got told off in my local cafe by some nasty Polish girl because she charged me £2.40 for a sandwich instead of £2.65 which was her fault...Rather than just leave it she chased me out of the cafe and looked at me in discust before banning me from the cafe i have used for 15 years!! Over 25p!!!!! which i would of happily given her if she had asked me for it at the till!!

Your Lucky she diddnt get your house..I dont think they like us at all they just want our money..Keep away from them.

...MMMMMEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!! LOL!!

Looks like you've been busted.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]

The performance of the Polish army in any future conflict will depend on one thing only.
To what extent they are betrayed.

In 1939, geographically Poland was already surrounded before the war even started.

It was already partitioned by 2 great powers - because both great powers thought it necessary to "gang up" on Poland in order to win.

Before Russia attacked in 1939, Hitler had not yet defeated Poland. Poland was planning a big counter offensive, by which time they were prepared and not jumped on from behind.

After Wizno, Westerplatte, Mlawa, Krojanty the German army were shitting themselves. So were the Russians. But together they could win.

youtube.com/watch?v=AoQj8GGHNxU

General Guedarian said that if every Polish soldier was like this - we stand no chance.

I refer you back to Ben above.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


So why didn't they?

So why did Stalin wait for the Germans to go first? 1920 maybe?
So why did Hitler insist on his deal with Russia before invading Poland?
Because he was shi*ting himself. He knew the Poles had this, amongst others.



Fortunately for Hitler he got there just before mass production.

Remember in 1939 Germans equipment was not that of 1942. The vast portion of german army was horse drawn.

I'll say it one more time.

The performance of the Polish army in any future conflict will depend on one thing only.
To what extent they are betrayed.

Once upon a time a story was written - for even simpletons to understand.

So David volunteered to fight Goliath. It took some persuasion, but King Saul finally agreed to let David fight against the giant. Dressed in his simple tunic, carrying his shepherd's staff, slingshot and a pouch full of stones, David approached Goliath. The giant cursed at him, hurling threats and insults.

As Goliath moved in for the kill, David reached into his bag and slung one of his stones at Goliath's head. Finding a hole in the armor, the stone sank into the giant's forehead and he fell face down on the ground. David then took Goliath's sword, killed him and then cut off his head.

You see, if David was betrayed, then the story would have ended differently.

When we put things in proper perspective, we see more clearly and we can fight more effectively,

You are so by the book.

Who won the Vietnam War?
Who beat Russians in Afganistan?
(Who blew up the death star?) :)
Sorry to wake you.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


In 1939, German army relied heavily on horses. They did not have the Panzer tanks yet. Yes it was more industrialised but not to extent of later in war.

Poland had just defeated the RED ARMY - remember (1920) .Germany had just been crushed. Hitler was glad Pilsudski (inventer of "Lightning War" was dead I can tell you that. (no I am not comparing RED army to Hitler) just pointing out psychological points scored.

Hitler did not know which Polish military projects were failures/successes.
Hitler was taking a calculated gamble and yes it was in his favour.

content removed

History / How much Poles trust to France? [93]


Napoleon wanted a platform from which to launch his attack on Russia and also he wanted to take advantage of the elite Polish soldiers which he considrered the best. Thats why he created a free Poland. Self interest.

Marie SKlodowska just happened to marry a french man. He could have been from anywhere really.
(btw - no kids know about her here in UK. They only know how to do drugs and stab each other)

Chopin was born in Poland - just happened to have a french father who himself lived in Poland since age 16 and faught in the Polish army.

gave shelter to Polish exiles
Most of the free world gave shelter to Polish exiles - mainly USA (Chicago)

History / How much Poles trust to France? [93]

I - work - in - schools.

2nd thing is I dont think your English is good enough to detect irony or sarcasam,as,if you actually read what I wrote,instead of reading what you "THINK" I wrote you would see I was pointing out how close historically France and Poland have been.............

bless...........................

but hey ho,crack on with the "all brits are thick and all poles are superior" attitude while
did I say that?

UK, Ireland / Poles in the UK, you know were the door is [102]


...the ripples of trauma have been passed down the generations - and young people feel obliged to remember.
ask any none bias historian if you are too thick to know what I'm on about.

...the brits abroad :) now theres a topic.

Go to Krakow and tell them you are a stag party from UK. LOL

Brits go there with zero respect for anything. Their arrogance is spectacular.

The arrogance of this thread is also spectacular. How dare anyone slag off britain. We are perfect angels and don't deserve such behaviour. LOL

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]


I assume that you are very young? Your lack of knowledge and understanding of this whole issue is at minimum - annoying. So Mr Hindsight - lets go back a little. Only 25 years prior to these events, Poland freed herslf (with the help of NOONE) from 123 years of Russian occupation. Poland did not exist for 123 YEARS. Poland defeated the RED army in 1920 and made herself free. Many people vowed that they would rather DIE than return to that humiliating and degrading existance. Polish people were both proud they freed themselves and had honour. The ability to do the right thing in the face of adversity. Not to sit back and wait - wait for someone alse to come and do her dirty work for her. Like Paris for example. Oh save our beautiful city - Paris had to be saved with the blood of american soldiers - together with other allied forces. Remember - the first person to commit suicide off the Stalin Tower in Warsaw was a French man - becuase he deemed it a more HONOURABLE place to die than the Eiffel Tower. During the war it was clear to Poland that the allies were not keen to help - because they were scared of upsetting Stalin THAT WAS IT. Scared of upsetting stalin. The Russian army was 'resting' on the east bank of the Wistula becuase it was waiting for the Poles to eventually be beaten by the Germans. They lasted 63 freaking days against the germans. How much time does it take to get help? But help never came - AND THAT IS THE DISASTER that Warsaw suffered. The complete inhumanity of it all. The Russians could have helped - but no. The allies could have helped - but no. Poles, who would rather die fighting than be taken again by the Ruissians, did what they did becuase they did not really see any other way out. Who was out there willing to help? Both Germany and Russia CLEARLY wanted Poland dead...and all you can do is sit back in you comfort zone and criticise. You don't even know you are born.

WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE?
That's it - we'll wait! Let's just wait and let them kill us all like cowards. LOL
The cavalry will SOON be here"! LOL

I'm sure you probably would have curled up in some corner and cried like a baby.

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]


There were NO enemies from within Poland that sold out the resistance - if thats what you mean?

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]

Lyzko


No bubble here - just crossed lines. The enemies from within (your definition) are irrelevant here. I was referring to enemies that had a direct effect on the direction of Poland's destiny. The enemies surrounding Poland - yes - they EVENTUALLY stopped the uprising. The enemies from within had no known effect on the duration or effectiveness of the uprising. Of course there were the individual squealers, probably German sympathisers, the tortured, the mentally ill. Can you give one reason why any REAL Pole in 1944 would voluntarily betray his country (except for those reasons I just mentioned?) The Germans knew what the Poles had planned but were not sure if/when it would happen. A few days before the uprising a Polish woman after TORTURE, broke - and told the germans an uprising was due. Even then they were caught of guard.

THE UPRISING WAS SUCCESSFUL - THE CITY WAS CLEARED - BUT NO OTHER ALLY TOOK THE INITIATIVE TO HELP AND OF COURSE - THE UPRISING WAS BUTCHERED!


so when then - when the Germans were stronger before the Ruissian advance?
After the Russian advance when the Russians would have been stronger?
You don't know what you are talking about.


Could you possibly sound more patronising? The only fault of the AK leadership was to stupidly assume that their ALLIES (including Russia) would actually have the balls to help them. But they were alright JACK!

PS The uprising was not a military exercise. An uprising is a group of occupied/enslaved desperate people attempting to free themselves. The Polish military assited the uprising as much as they could without being discovered. An uprising is not a counter-attack - it is not an offensive. It is simply people - rebelling.

History / 'Battle of Britain' won thanks to Polish aces !! [158]


When you exit the trenches - you will walk to the enemy - not run!

History / 'Battle of Britain' won thanks to Polish aces !! [158]


...sensible? ... or was it incompetence - and just plain arrogance - resulting in 1000's of casualties.
Also, traditionally in earlier wars - the soldiers would walk to the enemy because it was more civilised and orderly. Maybe Haig was a traditionalist or maybe he just forgot the Jerries had machine guns and just may have survived the bombing in their 'underground bunkers'?


..discipline? ... or was it by enslaving 1000's of Africans in the slave trade - plundering Asia of it's spices and minerals while subjugating and killing it's people?

(Formation flying was only effective for bombers becuase they could protect each other)

History / Whom do the people in Poland hate more: Germans or Russians? [869]

Someone mentioned that Bratwurst Boy was not here anymore? That's a shame. Got noone to wipe the floor with now :(

Throughout history Poland has stopped Russia having it's way with Europe and stopped the Germanics having their way with Europe (not to mention the Swedes, Muslims and Gengis Khan) Both Russia and germany have a chip on their shoulders about this and in recent history got a little of what they wanted in WWII by ganging up on Poland. Even then Poland stopped them. (Yes - I know the allies eventually joined in) Poland just wants to live in peace with both neighbours but they - just - keep rocking the boat. What you gonna do?

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]


Lets face it - you cannot verify the facts you have. We will probably never know. The fact is - when you send troops - however well armed - into narrow street warfare - tanks and bombs are inaffective - and casualties will start to mount. The Poles were on home ground for 2 MONTHS.

They were organised. Can't remember which German Soldier said that Warsaw was the perect example of CHAOS and that the fighting was worse than Stalingrad.

My collegue has spent a loooong time filming interviews with surviving Polish AK fighters - and lets just say that - they know - they know what they did. :):):):):):) (back atcha)

Home
Where the Fields are Green
The Woods are Clean
My Soul - Serene

History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]


The Warsaw uprising was the second betrayal by the allies. Warsaw was re-taken by the AK. The AK fulfilled their role.

The allies (mainly Russia) did not support the uprising and therefore it ultimately failed. It's simple.

To illustrate the will and passion of the Poles - It took the great 'Wehrmacht' TWO months to crush it...

...and all this time the allies just stood by and watched...

Food / Origin of the pierogi [118]

We will never know. End of.

...Poland eats piclked Herring and Sweden has Wodka due to the Swedish invasion of Poland about 500 years ago...