Love / What happens when you marry into a Polish family... [19]

@pawian, I don't know the statistics, of course, but just from my real life observation - I'm sure more than people realise. It's just people most often don't talk about such things (or don't realise that what they've experienced was toxicity, for example). It took my best friend quite a few years of friendship to open up about her family and her fiance's family, for example. She didn't call her mother "toxic", but that's what she was judging by the description of her behaviour.

Love / What happens when you marry into a Polish family... [19]

@Lenka, I read at some point quite a lot about toxicity in families and I've seen many, many, really many comments by Polish people writing about their toxic parents and what I've noticed was also that many of them even went as far as moving abroad to free themselves from them (not physically, but mentally).


That may not necessarily be an indicator either. A toxic family member can turn your whole family against you. Some may choose to fight with that, some may be too exhausted (toxic people can be really mentally exhausting) and decide to start a new life.


Oh, appearances can fool you, trust me. There's been a few toxic people in my family and you wouldn't have guessed what they were (some of them are dead already) and are capable of.


That's because this person was raised in such a family and ended up being like them probably. There may be two siblings and one may be toxic as their mother (or at least to some extent), for example, and other - the opposite. I've seen this also in real life - my aunt's two daughters, for example. Those two cousins of mine are still glued to their toxic mother and alcoholic father though (one of them lives with them still and the other helps them financially) and I can see how they're paying for this connection both mentally and physically with their health. Both intelligent, educated women with jobs...

So, yeah, as I wrote - it's always better to get to know a person.

Travel / Poland in photo riddles - part 2 [1680]

@pawian, they can be found during autumn? They're lamellae mushrooms?

Love / What happens when you marry into a Polish family... [19]

@pawian, in my opinion (and from my observation) those are not such "extreme" (or rare, if that's what you mean) cases as you think.

Travel / Poland in photo riddles - part 2 [1680]


I think so, at least the one on my phone does... You'd probably have to edit the photo beyond recognition, but then people wouldn't be able to guess the riddle.


I think I recognise only one type of mushroom, so it's hard to say... Are they rare?

Love / What happens when you marry into a Polish family... [19]


Not really. People may be disconnected from their family, because they may come from a pathological family or because of toxic people in that family. Such "disconnected" people are likely to be wonderful people, actually, with good hearts and strong enough to severe such toxic ties. At least that's my observation from real life. So, it's better to get to know such a person and not judge before knowing their story, imho.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

@Korvinus, sometimes abortion is the only way to save a life - of a woman or a girl - what then?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

@gumishu, unlike Novichok I stick to the facts - didn't you read my comments in this thread?


Yes, I wrote about it myself, so what's your problem exactly?

Novichok is against allowing women and girls to get an abortion even if they were raped. So that goes even against strict Polish abortion law. That's why I asked him that hypothetical question - how would he react if this happened to his granddaughter.


It could be if they didn't manage to find a doctor who would perform the abortion in time. The fact that no hospital in Podlasie region helped the girl or even just advised the aunt what to do is shocking.

History / What do Poles owe to Hungarians? [275]


Really? What is this then?:

forsal.pl/swiat/unia-europejska/artykuly/8595597,morawiecki-szczyt-v4-ke-w-rowny-sposob-traktowac-wszystkich-czlonkow.html


I'm not talking about this. I'm talking about how Orban behaves and that Hungarian state TV is repeating RuSSian propaganda. None of the EU prime ministers, even Scholz, behaves like this. I'm talking about how Orban was trying to stop sanctions against RuSSia or was threating to block Sweden's and Finland's NATO bid. My moral outrage extends to all countries that behave in an immoral way concerning the war in Ukraine. That included PiS who was criticising Germany for importing RuSSian gas and oil even though Poland and Hungary were doing the same. That was hypocrisy. Or Israel that wouldn't sell Iron Dome system to Ukraine.

History / What do Poles owe to Hungarians? [275]


Don't be a nasty demagogue. I claim no such thing that "Ukraine should be for Ukrainians".
I'm not saying that I support such policies towards minorities in Ukraine, but I realise that Ukraine is in a different situation than Poland. And all minorities were affected, not only Hungarians, so it wasn't like they were somehow "targeted".


That's in the past though, because of PiS:

notesfrompoland.com/2022/02/07/poland-cuts-teaching-for-german-minority-and-allocates-funds-to-poles-in-germany/

"reduces the number of hours of German-language teaching for children from that minority from three to one per week"

"The decision has been condemned by representatives of the German minority, who collected thousands of signatures on a petition against it, as well as by the political opposition. Poland's commissioner for human rights has also warned that it may violate international agreements and the Polish constitution."


How can I provide you with an evidence of an interview that Duda gave on TVN, as far as I remember? I was watching it on TV. Maybe there is a video somewhere or it was reported somewhere in some article - I don't know. I've read articles in which other PiS politicians were defending Orban - I can't provide you with links right now. I'll try to do that later. All of that happened last year. Did much change since then? I don't know, but I suspect that it didn't or not much.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


In what? That you'll get judged for your choices? Well, of course you will. You yourself judge people all the time and you call them names.


Yes, I did, because you turned out to be a hypocrite. You expect us to give you personal interviews and deal with your hypotheticals, but you refuse to return the favour :))) And you're lying that you're not dealing with hypotheticals - you are doing that when you're asking us hypothetical questions. It's just when you're being served the same dish that you're serving to us, you don't have the guts to take it :)))

And I'm stating a fact - there are only two reasons why you wouldn't answer such a straightforward, clear question - you're either too cowardly to say that you would try to talk your granddaughter into not having an abortion or you're a hypocrite and you wouldn't try to convince your granddaughter to not have an abortion and you don't want to admit it to us :)

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

@Novichok, you won't answer my question, because you're either a chickenshit or a hypocrite :)


You always write this when you have no arguments left and you're losing a discussion :)))

Well, if that's how you're going to act then you have no right to expects us to give you personal interviews and deal with your hypotheticals either :]

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

@Novichok, what you would do has relevance. You keep asking us such hypothetical questions in connection to the RuSSian invasion of Ukraine, for example, and since I've answered your questions more than once, I get to ask you such questions too and expect an answer.


As I've already proven to you a 14-year-old girl's health and life is at risk by default if she gets pregnant. And it's not only about that - she was raped.

So, what would you do in the situation I described in my previous post? If your 14-year-old granddaughter was raped and got pregnant - would you be talking her into not getting an abortion?

Your answer has relevance to me - I want to know what kind of man you are. So, answer it, please.

History / What do Poles owe to Hungarians? [275]


I just stated a fact. Orban's behaviour is treasonous. What if Poland was attacked by RuSSia? How would Orban behave? Did such question cross your mind? Because it did cross my mind.

History / What do Poles owe to Hungarians? [275]


And yet PiS politicians keep defending him, and it looks like - so are you.


That's because the official language in Ukraine is Ukrainian, just like in Poland - Polish. This affected all the minorities, not only Hungarians.


Link?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Yes, because he still didn't answer.


I'm not "ranting", I'm discussing.
It looks like Novichok is against the current Polish abortion law. So I'd like to know how he would react in a similar situation - if it was about his granddaughter.

I'm also debunking his lies about 14-year-old pregnant girls not dying.


You know. You saw it happen. Your 14-year-old granddaughter was staying over at your and your wife's house. A group of black men with guns broke into your house. You didn't make it to your gun in time. They tied up you and your wife and made you watch them raping your granddaughter multiple times. They robbed your house and left all of you alive. Your granddaughter got pregnant due to that gang rape. Would you talk your granddaughter to not have an abortion in such a situation?

(If you think that's a made up, unlikely scenario them something similar happened to Fran Drescher.)

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


But this thread isn't about people getting struck by a lighting. This thread is about abortion laws and we're discussing a case directly connected to those laws. We've asked Novichok a hypothetical question.

What is a hypothetical question?

"A hypothetical question is one based on supposition, not facts. They are typically used to elicit opinions and beliefs about imagined situations or conditions that don't exist."

So, no matter how likely it is to happen to Novichok's granddaughter, we want him to imagine a situation in which his granddaughter is getting raped and gets pregnant when she's 14-years-old, because we want to know how he would react in such a situation.


Some do die (so, stop lying), some don't.
But if that's your take on this then answer the question directly. Would you be talking your 14-year-old raped granddaughter to not have an abortion?

Btw, there's nothing to "change" in the abortion law concerning this case. According to Polish abortion law it is legal for a raped girl or a woman to have an abortion.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


*black gangsta rapist's baby


This is just an example - it doesn't have to be a gangster, but simply a black rapist. And it doesn't matter what is more likely. Rapes do happen and it can happen to Novichok's granddaughter.


No, I don't have any "fetish". And I don't claim that every pregnant 14-year-old will die. But the risk is much higher than in case of adult women. It's a lottery and the chances of damage to health or even dying are high. Would you let your 14-year-old granddaughter play a Russian roulette with a loaded gun? No? Then why would you risk her giving birth at 14-year-old? Would your granddaughter mean so little to you that you'd be ready to risk her health and life?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

@Novichok, I see you have no shame whatsoever.


"Technically" reproductive years start with the first period. The fact that a girl gets her first menstruation at 12 (and sometimes earlier) doesn't mean that her body is ready for pregnancy and giving birth. It isn't. Girls can have their first menstruation even when they're 9 year old. That's a child, who isn't both intelectually, mentally, emotionally and physically capable of becoming a mother. So, even a 9-year-old can get pregnant, but it doesn't mean this is a safe age to be pregnant and even less to deliver a baby. Any normal, sane person would understand this. But you don't?


It is. The risk is much higher than in case of fully developed women. Read my comments:

https://polishforums.com/news/poland-abortion-control-62528/90/#msg1894058

https://polishforums.com/news/poland-abortion-control-62528/90/#msg1894059

https://polishforums.com/news/poland-abortion-control-62528/90/#msg1894063

So, Novichok, after reading my comments that I linked above - do you still think that getting pregnant at 14 isn't such a "medical catastrophe"? And if you still think it isn't - would you be talking your raped 14-year-old granddaughter to give birth to her black gangsta rapist?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


Since that's unlikely to happen - answer mine and pawian's question.


That's a dangerous and completely wrong misconception. Such things happen in all kinds of families, no matter how cultured they are.
And only pawian asked about an uncle - I asked about Novichok's granddaughter being raped by black gang members in the US.

News / THE ARMY OF POLAND - THE REALITY [493]


Yes.


I agree. It's never wise to underestimate any enemy.

Language / Test to determine proficiency of Polish? [7]


Are you in a bad mood today? :D Haha

History / What do Poles owe to Hungarians? [275]


PiS politicians. I don't take notes which ones exactly (Duda, for example), but this seems to be the PiS policy towards Hungary - they all seem to be repeating the same thing. Kind of criticising Orban and then defending him, either alternately, or at the same time.

I don't know what Kaczyński said, but other PiS politicians first criticise Orban a bit and then defend him, by claiming that he's "just" defending Hungary's interests and this happens again and again.

I'm guessing the main reason for such behaviour is that Orban is their only ally in the EU.


Wow, thanks for showing your true colours, amiga500. What mainstream media show concerning what RuSSia is doing to Ukraine isn't enough for you to stand on the side of Ukraine? You think people need some kind of "Ukrainian psyops on Facebook" or "fake photos of atrocities"? WTF is wrong with you??


And I am allowed to have an opinion about his stance and anyone elses. And do tell what horrible fate the Hungarian minority in Ukraine suffers exactly?

Language / Test to determine proficiency of Polish? [7]

@Lernende, that's nice to hear :)))

History / What do Poles owe to Hungarians? [275]


Wow, what a piece of sh1t. So there goes the claim of PiS politicians and PiS supporters that Orban is only protecting Hungary's interests.

To make matters worse his state TV is repeating RuSSian propaganda.

I hope karma will reach Orban and the scumbags that vote for him.

Study / Various education and school issues in Poland. Opinions, stories, controversies. [1006]


Seriously? I didn't know about that... I knew about wearing black after the January Uprising was lost - we were taught about this at school, I even saw a black dress of some Polish lady at an exhibition concerning this in National Museum in Kraków (or Warsaw... I don't remember) years ago. But I didn't know that RuSSians forbade wearing black. They really didn't change, did they :(

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Another quote from that article:

"Around 65 percent of cases of obstetric fistula, a childbirth injury and one of the leading causes of maternal death, occur in the pregnancies of adolescents."

Do you know what obstetric fistula is? You probably don't want to know (if you think that young girls are "popping out" babies with no problems in those "traditional" countries, then you're very wrong):

unfpa.org/obstetric-fistula

"Obstetric fistula is one of the most serious and tragic childbirth injuries. A hole between the birth canal and bladder and/or rectum, it is caused by prolonged, obstructed labour without access to timely, high-quality medical treatment. It leaves women and girls leaking urine, faeces or both, and often leads to chronic medical problems, depression, social isolation and deepening poverty."

who.int/news-room/facts-in-pictures/detail/10-facts-on-obstetric-fistula

"It is estimated that more than 2 million young women live with untreated obstetric fistula in Asia and sub-Saharan Africa.

Obstetric fistula is preventable; it can largely be avoided by:

- delaying the age of first pregnancy;
- the cessation of harmful traditional practices; and
- timely access to obstetric care."

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

Imagine if that girl from Podlasie was forced to give birth. Would she survive or end up dead, like in this case?:

"14-year-old rape victim dies after being forced to give birth in Paraguay":

independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rape-victim-14-dies-childbirth-forced-paraguay-abortion-rights-a8270131.html

"Dr Hernan Martinez, the hospital director, told reporters the girl had been hospitalised 20 days before she went into labour because her young age meant the pregnancy was high risk.

The body of a minor is not prepared for a pregnancy," he said.

Ricardo Gonzalez Borgne, the head of the the National Secretariat for Children and Adolescents, said a 37-year-old man was arrested in connection with the rape."

This (the girl's young age) makes the decision of doctors from hospitals in Podlasie region even more shocking. Especially that the girl is intelectually disabled, so I imagine it would be more difficult for her to realise and communicate her condition to her aunt when pregnant or to the hospital staff once in labour.

According to those doctors putting the girl's health and life in danger was "not their problem". Easy to say when it's not happening to you, your daughter or your granddaughter, isn't it?

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

@Miloslaw, yes, I think it's because Novichok lacks empathy. He's unable to put himself in the shoes of a 14-year-old raped girl.

Also, 14-year-old is simply too young to get pregnant and to give birth. It risks the girl's health and life:

who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/adolescent-pregnancy

"Adolescent mothers (aged 10-19 years) face higher risks of eclampsia, puerperal endometritis and systemic infections than women aged 20-24 years, and babies of adolescent mothers face higher risks of low birth weight, preterm birth and severe neonatal condition."

The girl's body isn't prepared well enough for pregnancy and child-birth yet at such a young age.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]


*granddaughter