pawian
28 Aug 2011
Life / Do you think that Polish people are rude? [951]
Yes!
Come on, calm down.
Rudeness is less and less visible, even in queues.
Yes!
Saying better is the sign of a trolling idiot!
Come on, calm down.
pawian
28 Aug 2011
Life / How far apart do Poles stand when they talk? [46]
I once saw a Canadian woman running a class of English for Polish kids. They were visibly very uneasy when she approached and stood very close, almost touching them. They didn`t know what was going on.
I once saw a Canadian woman running a class of English for Polish kids. They were visibly very uneasy when she approached and stood very close, almost touching them. They didn`t know what was going on.
pawian
28 Aug 2011
History / Poland: Her heroes and her traitors [239]
The youngest Polish soldier ever!
SOLDIER OF POLAND AT 9, CORPORAL AT 12
Captain Stefan Ogonczyk Wesolowski was born on January 31, 1909 in Warsaw during the occupation of Poland by Czarist Russia. [...].
In addition to these decorations, Stefan Wesolowski was promoted to the rank of corporal at the tender age of 12, becoming the youngest noncommissioned officer in the history of Polish military services. He was later awarded decorations for Silesia, Wolyn and Lwow as an additional point of recognition for his military service in these campaigns.
Later on he joined the navy and during WW2 he fought on Polish destroyers.
Captain Stefan Ogonczyk Wesolowski
Read the complete story here: memoriesofwar.com/veterans/wesolowski/default.asp
Yes, wow. I came across this story by pure accident. He has a Wiki entry, but only in Polish.
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_P._Weso%C5%82owski
Great family traditions: his great grandpa took part in 1830 November Uprising, his grandpa participated in 1863 January Uprising, his father entered into 1905 Revolution.
I would like my sons to be as patriotic as this boy.
The youngest Polish soldier ever!
SOLDIER OF POLAND AT 9, CORPORAL AT 12
Captain Stefan Ogonczyk Wesolowski was born on January 31, 1909 in Warsaw during the occupation of Poland by Czarist Russia. [...].
In addition to these decorations, Stefan Wesolowski was promoted to the rank of corporal at the tender age of 12, becoming the youngest noncommissioned officer in the history of Polish military services. He was later awarded decorations for Silesia, Wolyn and Lwow as an additional point of recognition for his military service in these campaigns.
Later on he joined the navy and during WW2 he fought on Polish destroyers.
Captain Stefan Ogonczyk Wesolowski
Read the complete story here: memoriesofwar.com/veterans/wesolowski/default.asp
Wow
Yes, wow. I came across this story by pure accident. He has a Wiki entry, but only in Polish.
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_P._Weso%C5%82owski
Great family traditions: his great grandpa took part in 1830 November Uprising, his grandpa participated in 1863 January Uprising, his father entered into 1905 Revolution.
I would like my sons to be as patriotic as this boy.
pawian
27 Aug 2011
USA, Canada / What do Poles think about drinking raw milk? In America, unpasteurized milk is PROHIBITED. [49]
Sometimes milk may smell of dung because farmers filter their raw milk through various materials. When they run out of a piece of clean cloth, they use other stuff, e.g., pants, long johns, socks. :):):)
For milk to smell of ****, I can imagine your grandma's cows.
Sometimes milk may smell of dung because farmers filter their raw milk through various materials. When they run out of a piece of clean cloth, they use other stuff, e.g., pants, long johns, socks. :):):)
pawian
27 Aug 2011
Life / Are Polish roads really this bad? [237]
They are Polish names which have been used for centuries.
I have just completed all my holiday trips and I can say roads are getting better every year and even those bad ones are scheduled for the major renovation in the nearest future.
Also, country roads are a surprise to me. Many, though very narrow, were OK.
My estimate from holidays:
5% roads which are a disaster. Slow down considerably or damage your car.
10% bad, with holes and bumps. Slow drive advised.
30% patched and bumpy, require renovation, but are still driveable without slowing.
25% - renovated in the past and good.
30% newly renovated, in very good condition.
=Sebastian]Why do you call Vilnius, Wilno, and Lviv, lwow?
They are Polish names which have been used for centuries.
I have just completed all my holiday trips and I can say roads are getting better every year and even those bad ones are scheduled for the major renovation in the nearest future.
Also, country roads are a surprise to me. Many, though very narrow, were OK.
My estimate from holidays:
5% roads which are a disaster. Slow down considerably or damage your car.
10% bad, with holes and bumps. Slow drive advised.
30% patched and bumpy, require renovation, but are still driveable without slowing.
25% - renovated in the past and good.
30% newly renovated, in very good condition.
pawian
15 Aug 2011
History / Poland: Her heroes and her traitors [239]
A fascinating conversion at the risk of life.
Before the war, Bolesław Piasecki was a prominent leader of ultra right wing nationalist movement.
Quotes from
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAX_Association
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boles%C5%82aw_Piasecki
prewar Falanga
A fascinating conversion at the risk of life.
Before the war, Bolesław Piasecki was a prominent leader of ultra right wing nationalist movement.
Quotes from
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAX_Association
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boles%C5%82aw_Piasecki
prewar Falanga
pawian
15 Aug 2011
Life / Why Do You Love Poland? [907]
Exactly. Not like in Australia where you celebrate Christmas, wearing bikini costumes.
Polish Christmas, real one :
weather [In the summer it is hot and in the winter it is cold, as it should be]
Exactly. Not like in Australia where you celebrate Christmas, wearing bikini costumes.
Polish Christmas, real one :
pawian
14 Aug 2011
Life / Why Do You Love Poland? [907]
Nope, he isn`t. I know Mike from another forum. And he does have experience because he visited Poland twice or at least once. And is vividly interested in Polish culture and the rest.
I think apology is pending, Seanus.
Nope, he isn`t. I know Mike from another forum. And he does have experience because he visited Poland twice or at least once. And is vividly interested in Polish culture and the rest.
I think apology is pending, Seanus.
pawian
5 Aug 2011
History / Life in Poland in 1800-1900 [18]
In short - people lived in this:
wore this
worked here: and in their free time they were occupied with this
Great idea to make a few bucks!
Tomorrow I am starting to write a story about, let`s say, 19 century China, though I know nothing about it. :):):):) Wiki and google will let a hand!
PS. I heard there were a few revolts in China in 19 century - Boxers` and other.
In short - people lived in this:
wore this
worked here: and in their free time they were occupied with this
Great idea to make a few bucks!
Tomorrow I am starting to write a story about, let`s say, 19 century China, though I know nothing about it. :):):):) Wiki and google will let a hand!
PS. I heard there were a few revolts in China in 19 century - Boxers` and other.
pawian
5 Aug 2011
Travel / Why do you visit Poland? [223]
Male company?
=pgtx]there is much much more you can do in Poland than enjoy female company.
like what?
like what?
Male company?
pawian
1 Aug 2011
History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]
I appreciate your noble opinion. I tend to be more harsh on AK commanders because I read some articles about them (not long ago) and some were quite reckless by character, while others were weak and let themselves be dominated by hot heads.
A lot of buildings and objects in Warsaw still bear scars of war:
I appreciate your noble opinion. I tend to be more harsh on AK commanders because I read some articles about them (not long ago) and some were quite reckless by character, while others were weak and let themselves be dominated by hot heads.
A lot of buildings and objects in Warsaw still bear scars of war:
pawian
1 Aug 2011
History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]
Yes, Delph. They had no interest in helping independent Poland. That is why they waited and observed from the right bank how patriotic Poles bled in uneven fight.
But they had an interest in helping communist Poland and already in summer 1944 a Polish communist government was established under Stalin`s patronage. Those Poles were renegades who helped Soviets dominate Poland and make her a socialist country against most Poles` wishes.
Stalin was one of the shrewdest politicians ever.
Fortunately, the scheme that he created for Eastern Europe collapsed in 1989. Thanks God! :):):)
Yes, Delph. They had no interest in helping independent Poland. That is why they waited and observed from the right bank how patriotic Poles bled in uneven fight.
But they had an interest in helping communist Poland and already in summer 1944 a Polish communist government was established under Stalin`s patronage. Those Poles were renegades who helped Soviets dominate Poland and make her a socialist country against most Poles` wishes.
Stalin was one of the shrewdest politicians ever.
Fortunately, the scheme that he created for Eastern Europe collapsed in 1989. Thanks God! :):):)
pawian
1 Aug 2011
History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]
Quite right.
Don`t you think AK commanders made a too hasty decision, seeing a few Soviet tanks reaching the borders of Warsaw, they thought the Soviets are going to storm, while it was only reconaissance.
Quite right.
Don`t you think AK commanders made a too hasty decision, seeing a few Soviet tanks reaching the borders of Warsaw, they thought the Soviets are going to storm, while it was only reconaissance.
pawian
1 Aug 2011
History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]
The ultimate question arises:
If the Rising hadn`t broken out, would Warsaw have been spared 200.000 losses and the destruction of the city with its cultural heritage important not only for Warsaw but whole Poland?
[......]
During the German suppression of the Warsaw Uprising of 1944 around 70 to 80% of libraries were carefully burned by the Verbrennungskommandos (Burning Detachments), whose mission and specialty were to burn Warsaw.[12] In October 1944 the Załuski Library, the oldest public library in Poland and one of the oldest and most important libraries in Europe (established in 1747), was burned down.[13] Out of about 400,000 printed items, maps and manuscripts, only some 1,800 manuscripts and 30,000 printed materials survived.[13]
Defeat etc... aside for the moment, the sheer symbolic importance of the '44 Uprising simply cannot be overstated!
The ultimate question arises:
If the Rising hadn`t broken out, would Warsaw have been spared 200.000 losses and the destruction of the city with its cultural heritage important not only for Warsaw but whole Poland?
[......]
During the German suppression of the Warsaw Uprising of 1944 around 70 to 80% of libraries were carefully burned by the Verbrennungskommandos (Burning Detachments), whose mission and specialty were to burn Warsaw.[12] In October 1944 the Załuski Library, the oldest public library in Poland and one of the oldest and most important libraries in Europe (established in 1747), was burned down.[13] Out of about 400,000 printed items, maps and manuscripts, only some 1,800 manuscripts and 30,000 printed materials survived.[13]
pawian
1 Aug 2011
History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]
Wow, very good thought. I am surprised, really. :):):)
Today Warsovians, both native and newcomers, paid tribute. Everything stopped at 17.00 for a while.
=Sokrates]Both, the former does not preclude the latter.
Wow, very good thought. I am surprised, really. :):):)
Today Warsovians, both native and newcomers, paid tribute. Everything stopped at 17.00 for a while.
pawian
1 Aug 2011
History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]
Sirens wailed at 17.00 in Krakow. I was finishing the first post in the thread. Sort of my private tribute.
Among hundreds of photos from Warsaw, the dearest are these sites which commemorate the sacrifice of the city during WW2. Most of them refer to massive losses in Warsaw Rising:
https://polishforums.com/history/martyrology-today-monuments-47190/2/
Stroop supressed the Ghetto Rising in 1943. We are talking about Warsaw Rising 44.
But, yes, he paid for his crimes.
=delphiandomine]
Insulting is the way that Warsaw demands respect throughout the country for her failed uprising,
Insulting is the way that Warsaw demands respect throughout the country for her failed uprising,
Sirens wailed at 17.00 in Krakow. I was finishing the first post in the thread. Sort of my private tribute.
Among hundreds of photos from Warsaw, the dearest are these sites which commemorate the sacrifice of the city during WW2. Most of them refer to massive losses in Warsaw Rising:
https://polishforums.com/history/martyrology-today-monuments-47190/2/
=Lyzko]plus Stroop was finally executed after the War-:)
Stroop supressed the Ghetto Rising in 1943. We are talking about Warsaw Rising 44.
But, yes, he paid for his crimes.
pawian
1 Aug 2011
History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]
Unfortunately, German losses were not so high (General SS Bach Zalewski estimated German KIA at about 1900), besides, most of them were Eastern collaborators and other lowlives.
:):):) That is pure science fiction. Don`t forget Soviets had the most powerful army in Europe at that time.
And yet on August 3rd 1944 when General Stanisław Kopański sent General Anders a telegram to ask that a parachute unit be dispatched to emabattled Warsaw he repiled that he thought the decision of the Commander in Chief of the Underground Army to launch an uprising to be a complete disaster. (source IPMS. KGA 46/IV, telegram dated 03.August.1944)
On 9th of August General Anders sent a coded message to Gen. Sosnkowski, and in sharp terms criticised Warsaw's decision to launch the uprising. (source IPMS. KGA 46/IV; M.Zarzycki—Karta no.42 dated 2004 page 140).
Anders also pointed out in radiogram No. 2081 dated 09/August/1944 "...the troops do not understand the aim of the Uprising in Warsaw... We consider the launching of the uprising to be a serious offence and we ask —who bears responsibilty for this?"
from Sjams` post:
Polish-German alliance.
=Lyzko]Yet despite all of this, the German juggernaut was dealt a major blow
Unfortunately, German losses were not so high (General SS Bach Zalewski estimated German KIA at about 1900), besides, most of them were Eastern collaborators and other lowlives.
=delphiandomine]A Polish attack on the Soviets would have destroyed their supply lines quickly and easily - leaving Poland in the situation where an already-massively-depleted Red Army would have had to not only fight the Germans in the last desperate phases of the war, but also the Poles.
:):):) That is pure science fiction. Don`t forget Soviets had the most powerful army in Europe at that time.
the AK leadership almost certainly has blood on their hands for this.
And yet on August 3rd 1944 when General Stanisław Kopański sent General Anders a telegram to ask that a parachute unit be dispatched to emabattled Warsaw he repiled that he thought the decision of the Commander in Chief of the Underground Army to launch an uprising to be a complete disaster. (source IPMS. KGA 46/IV, telegram dated 03.August.1944)
On 9th of August General Anders sent a coded message to Gen. Sosnkowski, and in sharp terms criticised Warsaw's decision to launch the uprising. (source IPMS. KGA 46/IV; M.Zarzycki—Karta no.42 dated 2004 page 140).
Anders also pointed out in radiogram No. 2081 dated 09/August/1944 "...the troops do not understand the aim of the Uprising in Warsaw... We consider the launching of the uprising to be a serious offence and we ask —who bears responsibilty for this?"
from Sjams` post:
Polish-German alliance.
pawian
1 Aug 2011
History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]
Minister Sikorski had noted on his Twitter page that the nation “could draw lessons from this national catastrophe”. PiS politicians note, however, in a letter sent to the Foreign Ministry that such an “undermining” of the “heroic” legacy of the insurgents bore similarities with the practices of the communist authorities.
Generally speaking, the decision to launch the Warsaw Rising has always been controversial. While some regarded it as a courageous bid to throw off the Nazi shackles, others believe it was a suicidal operation.
General Wladyslaw Anders, one of the key figures in the Free Polish Army in the West during WW II, was among those that felt the Rising should never have been declared.
I forgot to add: most photos in the first post are from here:
pragapn. republika.pl/powstanie/
=TheOther]Sikorski was right that the Warsaw Rising was a national catastrophe.
Minister Sikorski had noted on his Twitter page that the nation “could draw lessons from this national catastrophe”. PiS politicians note, however, in a letter sent to the Foreign Ministry that such an “undermining” of the “heroic” legacy of the insurgents bore similarities with the practices of the communist authorities.
Generally speaking, the decision to launch the Warsaw Rising has always been controversial. While some regarded it as a courageous bid to throw off the Nazi shackles, others believe it was a suicidal operation.
General Wladyslaw Anders, one of the key figures in the Free Polish Army in the West during WW II, was among those that felt the Rising should never have been declared.
I forgot to add: most photos in the first post are from here:
pragapn. republika.pl/powstanie/
pawian
1 Aug 2011
History / Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ? [515]
Introduction:
A remark by Poland's foreign minister Radoslaw Sikorski, that the 1944 Warsaw Rising against the Nazis was a "national catastrophe", has been described by some opposition politicians as being "unacceptable" and unpatriotic.
Posting a link on his Twitter social networking website, Minister Sikorski described the ultimately doomed resistance by the Polish Home Army as a "national catastrophe."
MPs from the national-conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party say that the remark is a stain against the memory of Polish patriots. [.....]
It is strange that we haven`t debated it here yet. Maybe such a topic appeared long ago but was moved to archive. I checked the current search data and only two topics concern Warsaw Rising:
KIA of the Rising
After initial successes, the situation got worse. Germans brought a few police units, most of them consisted of various scumbags (criminals) or collaborators from the East.
Instead of fighting insurgents, they went on a murdering spree - in Wola district, about 50.000 Polish civilians were executed in early August, in Ochota - about 10.000. Mokotów - a few thousand. And in many other places all over Warsaw.
The situation was hopeless, so after 63 days of heroic fight, Warsaw capitulated.
From 120.000 to 200.000 civilians died, about 18.000 insurgents were killed in action or executions. 25% of left-bank Warsaw was destroyed in the Rising, next 35% afterwards. With 10% destruction from 1939 and 10% of Ghetto area razed to the ground, literally, Warsaw practically ceased to exist.
A long wall with AK soldiers` names
Introduction:
A remark by Poland's foreign minister Radoslaw Sikorski, that the 1944 Warsaw Rising against the Nazis was a "national catastrophe", has been described by some opposition politicians as being "unacceptable" and unpatriotic.
Posting a link on his Twitter social networking website, Minister Sikorski described the ultimately doomed resistance by the Polish Home Army as a "national catastrophe."
MPs from the national-conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party say that the remark is a stain against the memory of Polish patriots. [.....]
It is strange that we haven`t debated it here yet. Maybe such a topic appeared long ago but was moved to archive. I checked the current search data and only two topics concern Warsaw Rising:
KIA of the Rising
After initial successes, the situation got worse. Germans brought a few police units, most of them consisted of various scumbags (criminals) or collaborators from the East.
Instead of fighting insurgents, they went on a murdering spree - in Wola district, about 50.000 Polish civilians were executed in early August, in Ochota - about 10.000. Mokotów - a few thousand. And in many other places all over Warsaw.
The situation was hopeless, so after 63 days of heroic fight, Warsaw capitulated.
From 120.000 to 200.000 civilians died, about 18.000 insurgents were killed in action or executions. 25% of left-bank Warsaw was destroyed in the Rising, next 35% afterwards. With 10% destruction from 1939 and 10% of Ghetto area razed to the ground, literally, Warsaw practically ceased to exist.
A long wall with AK soldiers` names
pawian
31 Jul 2011
Language / Short Polish<->English translations [1049]
Its primary slang meaning is trying to understand. Can be like dig in English.
rozkminiamy"
Its primary slang meaning is trying to understand. Can be like dig in English.
pawian
31 Jul 2011
Life / Rate Poland (Life Quality / Culture and People / Food): 1-10! [232]
Polish grannies compared to Korean grannies are angels. You need to travel more. Or watch youtube more.
...
2. 8...but I'm leaving out the old women...coz that'd make it much lower, old women here are such complete b*tches.
Polish grannies compared to Korean grannies are angels. You need to travel more. Or watch youtube more.
...
pawian
31 Jul 2011
pawian
31 Jul 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [870]
Because it is extremely interesting to see how Polish experts/authorities/common Poles look on the crash issue.
No, let him rest in peace there. It is not a Polish tradition to take revenge on dead people, especially when they were patriots.
Why are we still discussing it?
Because it is extremely interesting to see how Polish experts/authorities/common Poles look on the crash issue.
Only thing to discuss is how to get the ducks body out of the wawel...
No, let him rest in peace there. It is not a Polish tradition to take revenge on dead people, especially when they were patriots.
pawian
30 Jul 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [870]
The recent Polish report is critisized by some aviation experts for overlooking the role of General B., the commander of Polish Air Force, who was present in the cockpit against the rules and could have added to the pilots` overall stress. It is true he didn`t exert any direct pressure on the crew (at least such thing wasn`t recorded) , he just read aloud the altitude from controls.
The Russian report from January considered his presence there as a very important factor.
The recent Polish report is critisized by some aviation experts for overlooking the role of General B., the commander of Polish Air Force, who was present in the cockpit against the rules and could have added to the pilots` overall stress. It is true he didn`t exert any direct pressure on the crew (at least such thing wasn`t recorded) , he just read aloud the altitude from controls.
The Russian report from January considered his presence there as a very important factor.
pawian
30 Jul 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [870]
Stop saying insanities.
=czar]anyone who beleives otherwise is the enemy.
Stop saying insanities.
pawian
29 Jul 2011
pawian
29 Jul 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [870]
It is interesting you are more interested in the order than the content. Also, that you don`t know the rules of catching the reader`s/viewer`s attention. :):):):):)
In democratic elections. Is you secret desire to abolish democracy in Poland and set up PiS dictatorship of Plastic Poles like you? :):):):)
=f stop]It's interesting that this is the one you put forth first, while the report lists 3 much more damaging causes first...
It is interesting you are more interested in the order than the content. Also, that you don`t know the rules of catching the reader`s/viewer`s attention. :):):):):)
No, elected by cartoonish people like you.
In democratic elections. Is you secret desire to abolish democracy in Poland and set up PiS dictatorship of Plastic Poles like you? :):):):)
pawian
29 Jul 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [870]
Which had dropped from Mars, you forgot to add. :):):):):)
Grzegorz - These are not "Polish" mistakes, these are the mistakes of the government's institutions.
Which had dropped from Mars, you forgot to add. :):):):):)
pawian
29 Jul 2011
Life / Rich man, poor man - today`s Poland [80]
But I cannot have another impressions after reading about those movements, especially Venus Project. It is all a mixture of concepts proposed by communist and green parties, with a considerable touch of science fiction.
[i]The core idea advocated by TZM is the replacement of current civilization with a money-free and cybernated "resource-based economy".[4] The Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project promote replacing human labour with automation, government will be through collective participation of the public, aided by advanced cybernation. According to the movement, there will be no decision-making process regarding greater social issues by human beings, those decisions are arrived at by using the scientific method, based on the carrying capacity of the Earth, rather than using human opinions.
Half the points in their list of aims and goals of the project is communist, the other half is environmentalist.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Venus_Project
It all sounds very beautiful, but only on paper. In practice, it will be a disaster. Read below.
But don`t you understand that any attempts of artifical redesigning of our culture are harmful and have always ended with disaster, no matter if done in communist, fascist or democratic countries? The human culture that we have now is so complex and versatile that you can`t just come and declare its redesign. It won`t work, just like it didn`t work in history.
talk about the Zeitgeist Movement or the Venus Project people remember communism and when they think communism its Russia circa 1930's.
But I cannot have another impressions after reading about those movements, especially Venus Project. It is all a mixture of concepts proposed by communist and green parties, with a considerable touch of science fiction.
[i]The core idea advocated by TZM is the replacement of current civilization with a money-free and cybernated "resource-based economy".[4] The Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project promote replacing human labour with automation, government will be through collective participation of the public, aided by advanced cybernation. According to the movement, there will be no decision-making process regarding greater social issues by human beings, those decisions are arrived at by using the scientific method, based on the carrying capacity of the Earth, rather than using human opinions.
Half the points in their list of aims and goals of the project is communist, the other half is environmentalist.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Venus_Project
It all sounds very beautiful, but only on paper. In practice, it will be a disaster. Read below.
personally i don't see any other option, not communism as such but a redesign of our culture to cater for every human being on this planet.
But don`t you understand that any attempts of artifical redesigning of our culture are harmful and have always ended with disaster, no matter if done in communist, fascist or democratic countries? The human culture that we have now is so complex and versatile that you can`t just come and declare its redesign. It won`t work, just like it didn`t work in history.
pawian
29 Jul 2011
News / Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [870]
Oops, I didn`t think about it.
but perhaps she did check and then some of the passengers unfastened them afterwards as is common here.
Oops, I didn`t think about it.